Jessica Craven is a community organizer, activist and newly elected member of the California Democratic party’s County Central Committee. Jessica is the author of "Chop Wood, Carry Water," a daily actions e-mail that’s been published five days a week since November of 2016. Her emails provide detailed text and scripts for the everyday person to reach out to their Congress people and Senators to take action on the important issues of the day. She’s made it her mission to get regular people more involved with politics on both a federal and local level.

 

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Full Transcript:

 

PASSIONISTAS: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington.

 

Before we start our interview today, we wanted to tell you about our upcoming event from Friday, August 21st through Sunday, August 23rd, we'll be hosting the passion project women's equality summit. The three-day event will feature live panel discussions, prerecorded presentations, daily workshops, The Passionistas Portraits storyteller event. The LUNAFEST® short film festival, a virtual marketplace, and a pay it forward portal. The weekend is centered around the theme of women's equality and intersectional feminism from a range of perspectives, including racial equality, LGBTQ+ rights, financial equity, voter suppression, ageism, physical and mental health issues, religious persecution, and so much more. And best of all, it's free for the weekend. Go to ThePassionistasProject.com to register.

 

And now for today's interview, we're talking with Jessica Craven, community organizer, activist, and newly elected member of the California Democratic Party's County Central Committee. Jessica is the author of Chop Wood, Carry Water, a daily actions email that's been published five days a week since November of 2016. Her emails provide detailed text and scripts for the everyday person to reach out to their Congress people and senators to take action on the important issues of the day. She's made it her mission to get regular people more involved with politics on both a federal and local level. Please welcome to the show, Jessica Craven.

 

JESSICA CRAVEN: Yay. Hi, how are you?

 

PASSIONISTAS: We’re so excited to have you.

 

JESSICA: Not as excited as I am. I am very, this is a great honor. Thank you very much.

 

PASSIONISTAS: It's an honor for us to. What's the one thing you're most passionate about?

 

JESSICA: I am an action advocate. Uh, I find that action is the antidote to despair. Um, and that it is the one thing that I need to be doing if I want to see change. So I guess action, and also getting others to act I'm very, very passionate about sort of, uh, encouraging others to do this work because I think it's important not just for our country, but for our own personal well-being.

 

PASSIONISTAS: To that end, talk about Chop Wood, Carry Water and what it is. Explain it to people who might not know.

 

JESSICA: What I try to do with Chop Wood, Carry Water, and I started doing this right after Trump was elected because everybody was so shell shocked and so upset. And I guess I tend to be the kind of person who, when something like that happens, I want to find a solution or something to do. I'm someone who needs to do something. So in the very, very beginning, I started, you know, sort of realizing like we should make, there's some calls that we should make. And I started making calls and, and, and also sort of researching around to see what calls needed to be made and what groups were talking about it. And I would then turn around and sort of send a quick email to a handful of family and friends and, and they seem to find it useful and they seem to want to make the calls.

 

And, and then I, I started including a little, a little bit of like a pep talk, you know, just a little bit of like been through some stuff as we all haven't and I've found some tools for dealing with difficulties. And I, I just would share those as part of the email. Like, you know, when I went through my horrible divorce, my father said to me, I mean, this is where Chop Wood, Carry Water comes from is, is, is that my dad told me that phrase when I was going through a divorce, I don't know, 15, 15, 20 years ago at this point, but I said, “How am I going to get through this? This is, I feel like I'm never going to get through this.” And he said, “You're just going to chop wood, carry water. And one day it'll be over.” So that's why the newsletter is called Chop Wood, Carry Water.

 

And, and I, and I told people that story, a number of times in the beginning, and it sort of turned into this thing where every day people would ask to be added to the list, or someone would say, I have a friend who wants to be added to your list. And I became really obsessed with following politics. Yeah. Following everything that was happening, uh, subscribing to every single newsletter that had actions for people to take. And in the beginning, there were a ton of them. And then sort of what I wanted to do, try to do was, was to distill that all down into five minutes for the average person, because I will take action all day long. Like that is who I am, but most people want to do something and then go back to their lives. They don't want to think about this all the time, but I do want to feel like they're doing something.

 

So what I decided to do it was sort of provide the service where I would read all the stuff and subscribe to all the things and then just distill it down into five minutes. So my idea was that you would just make just a couple of calls every day. You would call both of your senators. You would call your congressional rep. And then there would be like an extra credit thing to call some other, whoever it was. It used to be Scott Pruitt a lot in the beginning, cause I I'm an environmentalist at heart. And then eventually I added a resist bot text because people love resist bot so much. And I thought that was a good place to sort of add an action. That was a little bit or a script that was a bit longer that people could just send as a resist bot text.

 

And that's what Chop Wood, Carry Water is to this day. It's a, it's a little short pep-talk, it's a call to your members of Congress. It's like one or two extra things. I started including a lot of election related links in one of the sections. Just so if people wanted to find me or text bank or write postcards, I I've, I add those in. And then it's a resist bot text. And the idea is you can do it all in, in five minutes, which I think actually you genuinely, can't what I try to do tell people is just those five minutes can make such a huge difference. And if enough of us make those calls, you know, it really, I mean, we learned it with the, the attacks on the ACA and, and with so many other things I made, eventually Scott Pruitt did go away and, uh, you know, so many victories we have had have just been, because people have kind of hammered on the doors every single day, you know, using their voices and it does make a difference.

 

And I think that one of the big enemies in this situation has been despair, which leads to hopelessness, which leads to apathy. And then we really are in trouble. So my whole thing has been that when I make those five minutes of calls, I actually feel better. I feel more empowered. I feel more hopeful. And that's why I always say hope is an action because I don't become hopeful from just sitting around trying to like gin up hope in myself. I become hopeful when I actually make those calls or, or take any action, which bear in mind. I usually don't want to do. I almost never want to make my calls and I don't want to show up for protests. I don't want to show up at any of this stuff I do. But when I do it, I feel better. So there's very selfish, motives behind all of this.

 

It's really to help me not go into a tailspin, but it also turns out to help our democracy a lot.

 

PASSIONISTAS: With so much going on in the world, how do you determine each day? What issues to spotlight?

 

JESSICA: I'm on this all day? So all day I am taking emails from tons of people who are wanting to send me actions. I'm reading, uh, the, the few other action emails that are still out there. I'm a very active indivisible member. So I'm on a bunch of channels with other indivisible members and, and other action leaders. And there's a Facebook page for people who have action, you know, platforms. So we're all working on this together. So almost any action you see and Chop Wood, Carry Water, you know, is probably also being amplified by several other amazing individuals or groups. But, you know, I also read the news all day.

 

I also listened to a lot of podcasts and do really deep dives on policies. And I just am immersed in this all day. Every day. My husband always says, I don't know how you spend so much time. Like I would go crazy reading the news as much as you do, but I really am trying to absorb all this stuff. So that again, when I get to Chop Wood, Carry Water, I can distill it in a really simple way so that you guys don't have to spend your entire days doing this. So, and I'm an information junkie. I like to, you know, I like to learn, but in the morning I will generally go through all my emails and scan through my sort of typical sources and pull things from various places and, and, you know, work on the actual writing of the email, which takes about an hour, hour and a half in the morning.

 

But it's also been sort of cooking for the previous 24 hours before that. And then sometimes it's something will come up. I mean, this morning we have yet another news item talking about the sort of appalling, lack of personal protective equipment for our medical personnel. So then that becomes something that I sort of make sure is the focus of my newsletter. So, so part of it is trying to be nimble with events that are unfolding very quickly. And some of it is returning over and over and over again to things that we've been working on for sometimes weeks or months or even longer.

 

PASSIONISTAS: What are some of the big issues that you have been tackling, trying to tackle for a while and that are really on the forefront for you right now?

 

JESSICA: Well, that's a really good question. I mean, election security is a huge one that we're just returning to every week.

 

I make sure to put something in about it because especially now with the COVID-19 our elections in November, we sort of have to get those to a vote by mail status. They just, they just are going to have to be. And so far the funding for that is just not there. So while we want the States to, you know, step up and they probably will have to, we're pushing very hard for the federal government to fund it. And that's just an enormous push. That is it's hard. I mean, Mitch McConnell doesn't want it. So we're just working very hard because otherwise we're going to find ourselves in August, September, and just, it's going to be bad because we're not going to be able to go to the polls the way we have been used to so that, you know, climate change is an ongoing issue that I returned to constantly gun violence prevention.

 

I think you guys know I'm a pretty active member of moms demand action. So we return to that cyclically judges, you know, when, when Congress is in session and voting, we will always call on judges. And that tends to be something that gets less attention, but obviously we all know is, is so unbelievably important. And fortunately there are groups like indivisible San Francisco, which, which has a whole little chapter of their group that does nothing, but watch those judicial races. So I go there for a lot of information. I mean, I could literally go on there, there isn't any sector of our democracy that is not under attack right now. And, and the, you know, the fires are everywhere. So we throw water here and we throw water there and we throw water all around and then we come back and throw it again. But, you know, eventually we do see victories.

 

I mean the whole first year of Chop Wood, Carry Water. I had a section where we wrote to Scott Pruitt. It was just called the Scott Pruitt section. And we wrote about this pesticide chlorpyrifos, which I was really determined to help get banned because it's a neurotoxin that we were spraying on our, on our crops, by the millions of tons. I mean, it's a Dow chemical product. It's disgusting. And we call him that forever. And, uh, and then I kinda got distracted. And after about a year or a year and a half of, of those calls, we moved on to other things, well, chlorpyrifos has, it's abandoned California. Now it's banned in several other States. And some of it's the, the main production is actually being cut. So even though we haven't succeeded in an overarching federal ban, we have succeeded in largely gutting it to use.

 

And so, you know, these things have taken years, some of them, and we don't stop all the judges, but we have stopped some of the worst and we haven't prevented every horrible climate, you know, attack, but we have prevented some. And, and it's, you know, I really encourage people to focus on the victories, not the defeats because whatever we focus on grows, I really believe that.

 

PASSIONISTAS:  What did you do before November, November, 2016?

 

JESSICA: I've always been very interested in politics, but I actually did not work in politics full time. I worked in sales for a very long time. Ironically, for Tiffany and company, I worked there for about eight years. So in high end luxury sales, which, you know, was never really something. I was talking about passion. I was not passionate about it, but it was a, a paycheck. And it was a, you know, it was a respectable one.

 

And, and that was what I did for money. And before that I was a singer. So I performed for most of my young adult life. I was in a band called the Chapin Sisters for a long time with my, my two sisters who are still in that band. I come from a family of folk singers on one side, and my father made horror movies. I have a kind of weird background that would not necessarily, you would think lend itself to this. But the funny thing I have found is that my training in sales, which, which Tiffany provides excellent training, and also my training and performance have all come in very handy. As I have moved into this, this phase of my life. I mean, it turns out that I am very comfortable getting up and talking in front of people. I'm very good at encouraging people and I'm good at selling things so I can sell activism.

 

I can sell involvement and I'm comfortable talking to people, which is really what most of this is about. So for example, people are very afraid to call their reps. Like that's something that never occurred to me, but it turns out that folks are, are really intimidated and they don't know how to do it. They don't know what it even sounds like. People are afraid they're going to be challenged by the people they talk to on the other end. So at one point, my stepfather overheard me calling my reps one day when I was visiting my family in New York. And he said, you know, you should just make a little video of yourself doing that because you think it's easy, but most people really don't even know what that looks like. And so I did that. I posted a video of myself just calling my reps and people really responded to it.

 

And again, because I come from sort of a performance background and, you know, I'm not uncomfortable talking in front of other people in it. I can sorta, I'm good at showing people how to do things. And so that's been something that I did. One of those videos actually just today, just to sort of show people what it looks like to call and say a given thing, because we read these scripts and sometimes they're very clunky and stilted, and it's hard to know how to turn that into an actual phone call. So I guess all of those funny backgrounds that, you know, they don't make a lot of sense when you put them on a resume, but I also did screenwriting for three years. So like the writing skills, you know, it's all sort of come into play in what I do now. So I don't do much singing anymore, but I, I do a lot of bird-dogging and, uh, I don't know a lot of the skills translate for some reason.

 

PASSIONISTAS: We’re Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Jessica Craven. We're excited to announce that Jessica will be conducting her workshop Activism 101 on Saturday, August 22nd. During The Passionistas Project Women's Equality Summit. To register for free for the online event visit thepassionistasproject.com.

 

To get a membership to Jessica's daily newsletter, Chop Wood, Carry Water, and support her activism, go to patreon.com/chopwoodcarrywater. Now here's more of our interview with Jessica.

 

PASSIONISTAS: What advice would you have for some of those maybe a little bit apprehensive about getting involved or that thinks that their voice doesn't matter?

 

JESSICA: Well, for one thing, I mean, just a couple of practical issues about calling your reps that people don't always realize. And this is, sounds like the most obvious thing in the world, but I think there are people who don't necessarily know that when you call your reps, you're not going to get your rep on the phone. So that seems really obvious, but that is possibly not obvious to everybody. So you're going to get an aide or more likely you're going to get a voicemail. People worry a lot that they're going to get challenged like that. They're going to have to defend what they say, that they have to be super educated on something, but you absolutely don't. No one will ever challenge you. When you get an eight on the phone. They're generally very nice. They will take the comment. They will say, I will pass that along to the Senator or the Congress member.

 

And that's it. I don't know of anybody who's ever been challenged by an aid. It maybe has happened somewhere, but that's not ever been my experience. There are several different numbers you can call. You don't have to just call the number that they generally give you. The, the DC office. There are usually about four senators, about five other field offices. You can call any of them. So I find it really useful to have all five phone numbers for my senators and, and to the two phone numbers, my Congress member, I think all Congress members have a DCN and a field office. I have them all in my phone. So I just say, Hey, Siri, call Diane Feinstein. And, and you know, I, I call one of the field offices. So all of those are our basic points. And then why do it? I've been asked this a million times.

 

I have people who live in Kentucky who say, I just don't see the point of calling, you know, Mitch McConnell. He doesn't care. Or in a lot of States, I have people say like, my rep just doesn't care. They're hopeless. And what I always say, or you have people say, well, my rep is good. They're always going to do the right thing. Okay. So either way, I sort of compare it to, to having a, to being a boss and having an employee who works remotely. So if we sort of give that employee the job and then walk away and never check in with them, even the most honest employee after a while is going to start to just Slack at their job, because why wouldn't they, if they're having no oversight and, and no, no one checking in. So we are our representatives boss. Like they work for us.

 

So my job every day is to call and tell them what I want them focusing on. If they don't hear that from me, they're just going to do what they want. And even the most ethical is going to maybe miss something that is actually very important to their constituents. Also, it is really important to know that. So I go meetings with the staff of Diane Feinstein and Kamala Harris. Cause I, I go with a group of indivisible leaders and they always tell us, we need your calls. We need your calls. First of all, it helps the Senator to know where to focus her attention. And secondly, when she goes into a hearing she, or, or, or to a vote, she might say, you know, I got 150 calls on this yesterday. And the day before that I got 500 calls on this. So she's armed with evidence that her constituents care we can think, well, she must know that I care about this, but if she's not hearing it, then does she know maybe, but you'd be surprised how out of touch these offices can be with what their constituents are actually thinking.

 

I can't tell you how many times we've been meeting with one of those senators staffs, and we've brought up an issue that they had no idea about an issue. That to me was like very, very obvious, and that we'd been talking about a lot. They had not heard anything about it. So I just tell people, never assume, never assume that they don't need to hear from you. They do. And it's also an exercise for, for yourself. It's a, it's a way to say like, Hey, this is my country. This is my democracy. And you are going to listen to me every day. I am going to call you every day. And even if I called you about something yesterday, I'm going to call you about it again today because I'm your boss. And I want you to hear that this matters to me. I can't overemphasize the importance of it, honestly.

 

PASSIONISTAS: Now you're newly elected to the California Democratic Party's County Central Committee. So what does that organization do and what's your role?

 

JESSICA: I ran for it because I had run for something even smaller called aid Dems, which I won last year. And these are all sort of California State Party roles. So a Dems was an election that it wasn't even on the main federal ballot. It was a kind of a smaller election that people had to actually show up physically to vote for. And that enabled me to sort of have a very small voice in the California democratic party. So County central committee is basically a step up in that chain. I was on the same ballot as like the presidential candidates this time, which was really exciting. And I basically will have a seat at the table to vote on how the California democratic party spends its money, who we endorse, especially on sort of a state level. I'll get to vote on endorsements for like district attorney and city council and things that don't sound super sexy, but that are so important in the running of our state.

 

And it just gives me a tiny bit more clout and weight. Uh, California elected officials will take me a little bit more seriously. My senators will take me a little bit more seriously. And honestly, for me, it's all about bringing a progressive voice to the state party itself, which can be surprisingly, still sort of centrist and has had some corruption, quite frankly. So a bunch of us who are grassroots have been running for these seats just to get people into them who are actually sort of in touch with the grassroots community. And it's honestly the same reason that I'm serving as a PTA president at my daughter's public school. It's just, you know, we've heard these words like run for something, if you want to help run for something. And, and I've been like, all right, well, what can I run for? And these have been the things that have presented themselves to me.

 

So whether it's sort of bringing more progressive politics to, you know, fighting to get an electric leaf blower at my daughter's school, because it's better for the environment or advocating to endorse a more progressive city council candidate on the California, you know, the County central committee, it's, it's just bringing more of what I'm already doing to places where more people can hear. I mean, I guess it's all about sort of building a bigger platform, but I'm just going to keep fighting for better, you know, stronger action on climate, strong direction, on guns, stronger action on, you know, uh, election security and criminal justice reform, the same stuff, you know, basically I already do.

 

PASSIONISTAS: Why is local government as important really as federal government?

 

JESSICA: Over the last three years, we've watched as our federal government and Congress have basically grown to a halt. I mean, they have passed some things, but even having flipped the house, we just can't get anything through the Senate and it's discouraging.

 

And you just start to feel like there's so little we're able to do right now on a federal level. And in general, on a federal level, even when Obama was president, it's just hard to get things through, unless you have like a super majority everywhere, which is rare now on the state level, it turns out we can just get a lot more done and on a city level, we can get a lot of stuff done. And I guess the more, the longer I've paid attention to this, the more I've realized that while the federal government is incredibly frustrating and sort of just jammed up state governments are passing amazing climate bills, or they're not, they're passing great, you know, pro-choice bills or they're passing horrible pro-life bills, they're passing gun bills, or they're not. Cities are getting really, really active on helping our unhoused populations or they're sitting on their hands and doing nothing.

 

They're passing, you know, climate bills or they're not. And, and these are places where we actually can really affect change by working to elect great state legislators, uh, by working to elect city council members. I actually, in this past, the primaries that just passed in California were the election I was running in. There were also several, uh, city council seats. And there were all of these amazing challengers to incumbent city council members. And I spent all of my time canvasing for like three different city council candidates, because I've come to realize that the city council, as unglamorous as it is, is actually a place where if you want to make change, say to fight climate change, that's a really good place to do it. And Los Angeles has a notoriously sort of corrupt and awful, sorry, but pretty terrible city council right now, very ineffective.

 

And frankly, as I said, a lot of them are really corrupt. And so working to flip some of those seats, I worked on, on the, on the race of this woman, Nythia Roman, who was challenging one of our city council members and, and she, she made it to a runoff with a hugely funded incumbent. And that was just done by people power and her being a great candidate. I helped flip a seat, a city council seat in Glendale by canvassing for, for a guy named Dan Brotman, who was a climate champion and had stopped a huge power plant expansion in Glendale. And so I decided to put a lot of time into his race and he won. So meanwhile, you know, my presidential candidate of choice did not win and probably wouldn't have won if I had knocked doors for her, every single one of those days, unfortunately, just because of the nature of, you know, systemic sexism or whatever.

 

But the people I canvas for city council, why did, and, and their races are really exciting because if they win, they can make a huge difference in my day to day life. And that's the thing I would love people to remember is that the people that you have working in your state legislature and in your city council, in your school boards, those people are going to be affecting your life. They're going to be affecting the air, your kids breathe, or that you breathe. They will be affecting whether or not there are, you know, tons and tons of people housed who need it or not. And so many other things they'll affect how your state is spending money in so many different ways. Moms demand action is so great because they do a tremendous amount of advocacy on a state level. And they have sort of recognized that the federal level is, you know, we do do a work there, but on a state level, we can get so much more done.

 

And so I've actually gotten very into pushing calls on to state legislators as well. And I have a whole list of people who I will text and say, Hey, call your legislator today on this California bill, because we have a lot of power there. And we've seen California just passed phenomenal bills in the last few years. And we have a lot further to go on that, but this is a great place to put your energy. And if you don't know what you know what to do as the next set of elections, roll around, look for a small election in your area and work on it. You can make a really big difference and you can help somebody. When Dan brought me in one by, I don't know, I think it was a thousand or 2000 votes, and I canvas for him about eight times. So I feel like I had a real part in that race and it feels really good.

 

So I can't encourage that enough. Check out your state level races or check out a great organization like sister district. There were these amazing organizations doing great work on a state level and a future now is the other one, check those out. They're doing great work. And that's all they focus on our state elections and, and those are critical. And plus we have redistricting coming up in, in 2021. And if we don't win these States back, we're looking at bad representation there on a federal level for another 10 years. So it really matters.

 

PASSIONISTAS: What's your secret to a rewarding life?

 

JESSICA: Look for ways to help other people. I mean, that's, that's it in a nutshell, you know, and I I'm in 12 step programs. So, so I got this there that if I want to be happy myself, I need to look for ways to make other people happy.

 

And if I want to feel less anxious, I need to find a way to help other people feel less anxious. I mean, that's Chop Wood, Carry Water was born out of that. Basically, you know, the night Trump was elected. One of my girlfriends called me hysterically crying, and I was also crying. But in that moment, she needed me to comfort her. And as I comforted her, trying to find the words of comfort that I could pull out of wherever, I realized that in comforting her, I felt a modicum of comfort myself. And, and to this day, that is what keeps me going. Is that when I feel despair, when I feel hopeless, when I feel like I just don't see how we're going to get out of this, I turn around and try to find somebody else who's feeling that way and give them hope.

 

And that's why I do the pep talks in Chop Wood, Carry Water, because I need to hear them. And the, and as I do them, I feel better and I feel stronger. So I guess that the secret to joy for me is trying to help other people find joy themselves.

 

PASSIONISTAS: Is there a mantra that you live by?

 

JESSICA: A couple. “Chop Wood, Carry Water” is one. And again, just that idea of just what is the next thing in front of me to do what is in front of me right here? Is it, do I need to get my email out? Do I need to call my reps? Do I need to feed myself and my family to what is the thing right in front of me to do not, how am I going to be in 10 years or what's going to happen next year? But like, what is right here and trust in God and call your reps.

 

I mean, you know, I guess that would be my other mantra and on a spiritual plane. What I use when I meditate a lot is breathe in faith and breathe out fear, which helps a lot for me, just to sort of on a physical level, be breathing in the idea that it's all going to be okay, and be breathing out that anxiety. Cause again, the anxiety will make me ineffective and cripple me. And also it's the anxiety is so fed by our social media and media world that, that it becomes in and of itself an enemy that I have to fight. And I can do that by caring for the physical plant, feeding myself and meditating, exercising, those, those little things, making sure I spend, you know, engaged time with my family, all of that, to make sure that I can fill the well.

 

PASSIONISTAS: What advice would you give to a young woman who wants to get more involved and become an activist?

 

JESSICA: Find a local campaign and volunteer, pick your passion.

 

If it's climate change, find somebody who's running for any office where they can have some impact on that and, and help them. If you're young, join the sunrise movement. They're amazing. They're so great. I can't recommend them highly enough. If climate change is your, is your big thing. If criminal justice reform is your thing, look for it. Look for someone running for district attorney who wants to change things up there. We have a great race in Los Angeles that I'm going to be volunteering for. If education is your thing, work on a school board race. There is no campaign that will not jump up and down for joy. When they get a phone call from someone saying, I want to volunteer, there's no campaign that has so many volunteers that they will turn them away. They all need you desperately. So sign up to do what you can.

 

If you are not willing to go canvas, make phone calls. If you don't think you can do that, offer to go and stuff on envelopes for them or answer phones or bring them food. But again, get involved in it in a local race. I mean the presidential race obviously will matter so much, but to get started, if you start on a small race, you will then get to know those people. And the next time they're working on a campaign, you'll be like, Hey, I know. So and so they were, you know, a field rep in, in, in, so, and so's campaign, I'm going to call them up and see if I can get in, you know, uh, here as maybe like a paid, maybe I can get a paid job and suddenly you're sort of working your way up, but everybody who works in politics starts as a volunteer. I worked for a great organization called open progress for almost two years, uh, doing their social media. And I started out as a volunteer. I worked for them for probably four months as a volunteer and that turned into a job. So you just never know, but, but volunteering is where it's at. Just, just, just raise your hand and ask where you can help and you'll be off. Your journey will begin.

 

PASSIONISTAS: Thanks for listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Jessica Craven.

 

To get a membership to Jessica's daily newsletter, Chop Wood, Carry Water, and support her activism, go to patreon.com/chopwoodcarrywater.

 

Don't forget to register for the Passionistas Project Women's Equality Summit to take part in Jessica's workshop Activism 101 on Saturday, August 22. The summit is sponsored by LUNA, whole nutrition bars, the premium beverage company, Tea Drops and public speaking coaching company, ubu skills. A portion of the proceeds from the summit will go to Girls Inc. and Black Girls Code. To register for free for the online event visit thepassionistasproject.com.

 

And be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast, so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.

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