Episodes
Tuesday Dec 13, 2022
Soraya Chemaly Is Expanding Women’s Civic and Political Participation
Tuesday Dec 13, 2022
Tuesday Dec 13, 2022
Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning author, activist and former Executive Director of the Representation Project and Director and Co-Founder of the Women's Media Center Speech Project. She has long been committed to expanding women's civic and political participation. She is the author Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger and the recipient of the 2022 Passionistas Persist Trailblazer Award.
Learn nore about Soraya Chemaly.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, we're sisters Amy and Nancy Harrington. We founded the Passionistas Project to tell the stories of women who are following their passions and fighting for equality for all. The more we spoke with women for our podcast, subscription box and the annual Power of Passionistas summit, the more we saw a common trait in all of them. They are unstoppable.
Whether they choose to use their voices to start a women-owned brand or fight for the rights of the marginalized, we found that all Passionistas are resilient, compassionate and persistent.
Each year, we honor women who embody these qualities by presenting the Passionista Persist Awards. This episode of the podcast is an interview with one of the 2022 recipients.
Our next award this evening is the Passionista Persist Trailblazer Award. The definition of Trailblazer is a pioneer, an innovator, a person who makes a new track through wild. Tonight's recipient is an activist and author who is pushing boundaries for women daily in this wild country we live in.
The award is being presented by Dr. Melissa Bird, a feminist, author, healer and coach. Melissa's purpose in this world is to teach women how to step into their truth and quit playing small.
Melissa: I am so pleased to be presenting the 2022 Passionist Persist Trailblazer Award to my amazing, inspiring friend Soraya Chemaly. Soraya is an award-winning author, activist and is the former Executive Director of the Representation Project and Director and Co-Founder of the Women's Media Center Speech Project. And she has long been committed to expanding women's civic and political participation.
One of the things I love and adore about Soraya is that she is the author of one of my most favorite books, Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger. And I do not think it is any coincidence that on this day of all days, on this year of all years, I get the privilege and the honor of presenting Soraya with this incredible Trailblazer Award.
So, Soraya, thank you so much for joining me today to receive this amazing, beautiful, awesome, well-deserved award because you are certainly blazing many trails in my life and the lives of so many of us.
Soraya: Thank you so much, Missy and thank you to, The Passionistas Project. I am really, genuinely so honored. It has been a difficult year. It's been a difficult decade, actually, and honestly, it's just nice to know that organizations like yours are thinking about the work that people are doing, that requires this kind of persistence, which doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as hope.
But really and truly, I'm genuinely very, very honored and delighted to be able to have this chance to have a conversation with you again and want to just say thank you very much.
Melissa: Oh, you are so welcome. God works in very fascinating ways and the fact that you and I are here together. After the Supreme Court has released so many devastating decisions just this week, like in the last literally six days. Yes, I think it is. Um, I think it is awesome actually, that you and I are together at this moment talking about trailblazing, right? And, and about how are we moving forward. Um, as part of the Passionistas Project, as part of the work, um, that Amy and Nancy have brought together and culminated so that so many people can have a platform for change and a platform for blazing trails.
And I think that, you know, you and I in our professional work, Soraya, we work with so many organizations and so many people who are trying. The thing that I love about the Passionistas Project is they are doing in such an authentically beautiful way. And so the first thing I really want to talk with you about today is about the Power of the Passionista and this mission of bringing all these women together from literally all over the world to talk about making change with diversity, equity and inclusion. Truly doing it this time. Like the lineup just blows my mind every time I think about it. So what does the Power of Passionista mean to you?
Soraya: When I first heard Passionista, my response was a, a little bit viscerally to think, oh, hold on. That's a word that I personally have heard that you have heard that many of us have heard. That's used dismissively. You're so passionate about that project you work on. Right. As though some of the issues that we are fighting against.
Um, our pet projects that we do in our spare time because it makes us feel happy, you know, and so I actually had that initial response, but what I really came to understand and think about was the fact that there's no reason to reject the word passionate or the idea of what it implies and clearly means in this context.
I mean, these are women from all over the world who are dedicating their lives to making change often in situations of. Grave, danger of risk, um, of political, uh, violence. Uh, increasingly we know this is the case. Increasingly, we know that the people at the forefront of so many movements, environmental movements, climate change, indigenous rights, uh, apportion, reproductive rights, racial justice, it's over and over and over.
Women, black women, queer women, trans women, women who are just pushed farther and farther and farther into the margins. And so I think it's really important to understand what it means. Honestly, the word kind of to me lies at the nexus of the personal and political that some people have the luxury to think are.
Right? We know that that's a decades old expression from the feminist world, that the personal is political. But a lot of people really still benefit from separating those two things. And, and, you know, we gain nothing by pretending that they're separated. Um, and I actually think the word Passionista, um, makes people think about that if they care to.
Melissa: I think we have to have passion to keep moving on. If we remain passionate about the things that deeply impact our lives and our world and the world of other people, particularly all of the women you just mentioned, we start talking about disabled women, women who are engaging in decolonizing work. We start talking about rebellious women, women who are trying to get educated and disrupting the education system.
When we think about people being the ones who are potentially gonna get us through. Then we have to understand passion. Because without passion, the drive in hopeless moments becomes diminished. And so what are you the most passionate about?
Soraya: When the Dobbs decision came down, I think like a lot of people, I burst out crying. And the thing is that you've been doing this work, I've been doing this work for, oh, it feels like decades, right? Yeah. Like literally, there was no surprise in this at all. There was just profound loss and disappointment and sadness and rage. That's how I felt, you know? And it was just so eviscerating actually, because I think.
If you have been on this side of this fight, seriously, you understand what just happened, what we just lost, what it represents. And that's not to diminish other losses at all, but it's such a turning point to have the right taken away. But it is a really critical point and a great unraveling. Yes and yes.
Yes, yes. I'm so glad you called it a great unraveling because I think that is profoundly important for people to understand as we're thinking about, I mean, trailblazing the world as we know it will fall apart. And we're seeing it in little tiny anecdotes. Mm-hmm. you know, doctors who have a woman come into their emergency room at 11:30 PM who with an ectopic pregnancy, that's about to blow, but they've gotta get on the phone with the attorney.
Yeah. And make sure they can do the procedure. Cuz her life isn't totally at risk yet, but it will be soon. Right. I, I'm just like, maybe now you understand that the single what the single issues. Not issue. It was always oversimplified into this idea of the act of abortion. And that is never what any of us was talking about, you know?
And so I think the thing you were saying, what am I most passionate about? And I was kind of winnowed down into this nub of real despair. You know, just that feeling that you get, which is hopelessness. But I will admit that that was swamp. Pretty quickly by my rage. Yeah. And I think by many people who, many people had this experience of feeling this justifiable rage, but in fact, you can't let that rage hurt you.
This is the point, right? If the, if the rage you feel is causing you dangerous stress or causing you to hurt yourself in other ways or. To, um, destroy relationships that are important, that that's not a functioning tool. And, and so I'm quite passionate in this moment about acknowledging anger, acknowledging the rage of the moment, and also appreciating that while it's not the conventional, socially acceptable, um, method of displaying. Anger is literally one of the most hopeful emotions because if you can maintain your anger, which is different from resentment, right?
Like I feel resentment when I look back at people's decades of work that feels dismissed and lost, I'm looking back, right? That's different from a rage, which is a feeling that things can and must change. Because you don't feel rage. If you feel really genuinely hopeless. What you feel is sadness and despair and depression, and that's paralyzing.
And it's okay if people feel that way because in fact, this is a sad, depressing, paralyzing moment. But I would just say that I also believe that, again, it's not, not to say embrace a rage and an anger that are destructive. It's not at all what I mean, but acknowledge that the rage and the anger are justifiable and that they need expression and that no matter what, they are hopeful.
They are fundamentally hopeful. We think that in order to make change, we have to, we have to set aside anger and. And yes, what I love to refer to as Righteous Fury. Mm-hmm. in order to disrupt systems and make a difference. And I remember so many times when I was lobbying at the Capitol in Utah for a Planned Parenthood, I would just be furious.
I can't play poker, I can't keep any emotion off my damn face. And I would be so livid and then I would like take this breath and go, what has to be done? How can I communicate what is necessary to these people to help things move forward? Because I had to focus on, not me, but the thousands and thousands of people that are gonna be impacted by that.
Those pieces of legislation, either that I was trying to push forward or that other people were trying to push forward. And as soon as I channeled that rage and moved it into, everything changed as long as I wasn't screaming and yelling and huffing at, at directly at human beings and being abusive and confrontational, I still got rage. I still had all the rage. Mm-hmm. And I channeled it.
Melissa: And I'm curious, when you talk about rage, what are the things that you really wanna help people who are part of this Passionistas summit understand.
Soraya: Taking our rage and using it to blaze wherever we're going. There are a few things that really still strike me. Um, it's been three years since the book was published and, um, you know, it, it's one of these books I think that has a very long tale because in fact there is an evergreen quality to these ideas. Mm-hmm, you know, and, and we wanna underst. Emotionality and we in particular, I think wanna understand the role it plays in our cognition because if you are a woman, or if I'm identifying, you know, how quickly and easily people dismiss you, if you express anger.
Which is why so many of us try not to show anger, feel anger, display anger. We've grown up being punished for it or, um, mocked for it. You know, that's the number one worry women have. It's not that someone's gonna be violent, it is that they will be mocked for expressing anger, which is an expression of need or an assertion of will.
Right. And we're, we're, we're not supposed to have either of those, those things. Mm-hmm. , but I, I think. , there are a few things. One is to be a trailblazer and to use your passionate feelings and beliefs. Doesn't require that you take on the whole world all at once or have an institution or a structure. You know, the whole fact of trailblazing is that you find a new way.
You find a way that makes sense to you, and then , most times it also makes sense to other people, but they just either didn't do it or didn't think of it or didn't have the time, but are so appreciative of the fact that you might do it. And so for some people that might be organizing a local choir to resist peacefully.
In a certain way, right. To other people it may be writing legislation to other people. It may be mobilizing, um, transportation, who knows what it is, right? But I think it's really important to not feel paralyzed by the idea that there's a way to trail blades. The point is it's risky. Yes. You, you, you have to take the.
People may call you stupid or you know, any number of terrible, terrible names, which 100% will happen. Okay. How you know you're on the trail. That's how you know you're on the trail. So you really have to, you have to really fundamentally be okay with people not liking you. That's the other lesson that really strikes me about being passionate and being angry as part of.
We are so, so expected and socialized to be likable and to put others first, and not make other people uncomfortable. Trailblazing always makes people uncomfortable. It's okay. We need more people to be very profoundly uncomfortable. I'm thinking about my own moments where friends have come to me, or clients have come to me, or organizations have come to me and said, you know, I have this.
I really wanna do it, and I don't think I should because if I do A, B or C is gonna happen, people won't like me. I'll lose my family, I'll lose my friends, which is what stops us from doing our core, what we are here to do. Right? Right. It stops us from living at our purpose. Oftentimes what I hear from people is that I must be really unique for writing the, the very first bill I ever wrote on my dining room table when I was getting my master's degree.
Thinking about what propels you and the people that you know, all these women who are here as part of the summit, all these people that are connecting with all of us who are involved as either award recipients or speakers. What do you want people to know? You know, there's gonna be a lot of noise, there's gonna be a lot of us versus them.
There's gonna be a lot of polarization cuz there's nothing. This country more loves more than polarizing each other.
Melissa: What do you think people really need to hear about that polarization so they don't get distracted by all that noise?
Soraya: Well, it's so hard, you know, because in fact the stage at which we're in the polarization is intimate, right? We're not talking about someone who lives in another state who feels differently. We may be talking as women about the person who's sleeping next to us in bed. That is a very difficult situation that millions and millions and millions of people find themselves in. The polarization is very gendered and very raced.
The political polarization. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, we all know there are a lot of liberal progressive men and a lot of extremely conservative women. Yes. So, you know, I don't wanna suggest that it's straight down the line that fathers and daughters or, you know, so I, I think it's important to acknowledge.
The intimacy of the issues that we're talking about and it demands of us different tactics and techniques. It demands, honestly, and this is what, this is why I gravitated towards anger as a way of shedding light on some of these issues of inequal. The inequalities are deeply intimate, right? And so the thing about anger in an intimate setting, whether it's a family setting, a religious community, which is almost always patriarchal, right? Our main religious faiths are all mainstream patriarchal, um, regardless of the community you're in. The thing about disdain, anger is that it, it erases the, even the idea of reciprocity, right? So if you're angry at people, you know, and you don't tell them who exactly are you protecting or hurting.
Maybe you're protecting yourself because it's too big a risk to think, I love these people. I have dedicated my life to them. I've taken care of them, or I do it every day. But what if they don't return that care? Right? What if I say I'm very angry? This is very important to me, I need you to support me.
And what they do is get angry at me for the way I express myself or laugh at me and diminish my concerns. Those are legitimate concerns because they happen every day. And so I just think we need to acknowledge the risk because in fact, the hard part about thinking about reciprocity is acknowledging.
There are power. There's power at play, social power at play in our institutions at every level. So yes, in the government, but in our schools and in our places of worship and at our dining room tables, I always say, if you can't practice a hard conversation at home among the people that in that you trust and who in theory love you and support you, how are you supposed to do outside. I think that's really the thing that keeps people from engaging.
Melissa: The topic of this conference is diversity, equity and inclusion, right? And I think that right there, Soraya is why people don't really authentically dig into do I work because I agree. Because if you can't have that conversation at home, right?
Soraya: How in the hell are you supposed to have it in a corporation with thousands of employees. So often the onus of these conversations falls on the minority people who are most negatively affected. When we think about intersectionality, it's very often the case that you think about black women, um, or trans women, right?
Yeah. And what gets erased is the intersectional nature or relevance or political. Identity of a white straight man, for example, or of a, a, a white straight woman. That identity, because it's so often conflated with a normal person mm-hmm. as opposed to, and, and a person whose identity doesn't matter. That gets very complicated.
And so when you have to do the hard work of talking about those identities, It feels as we know, like an attack on people. That's, that's where the term white fragility comes from, you know? And so imagine being, uh, a woman at the dinner table who wants to talk to her children about whiteness, and that's not really appreciated by her spouse.
How is she also gonna talk about male or straightness, right? If she has a child, if she like. It's a very complicated, and I think the reason it gets so complicated is because these conversations are threats to identity. You know, they're threats to how people think of themselves as being good people. I don't know how many men I've talked to who you know, hate identity politics.
Without thinking about their own identities, right? Because in fact, from their perspective, which we keep hearing over and over again, they've done what everybody can do, which is work hard and provide and protect and do exactly what they were told to do, which in fact, they are doing, they are. And in fact, there are rewards that come with and those rewards do not extend to other people. That's the point.
So the diversity and inclusion conversations come, as you say, to a hard stop because they, they have to happen intimately. Yeah. You know, they, they have, they, that's, that's the only way things are gonna change.
Melissa: One of the things Amy, Nancy and I were talking about as we've been trying to get sponsorships for the conference, right?
Because as you do, like it's a conference, right? Sponsorships. Right. One of the things we realized really early on, because I'm like, this is a DEI, no-brainer. We have elevated like people with disabilities. Yeah. You know, indigenous folks, like trans women, like we've. I've never been so involved with an organization that actually is doing all of this.
Like I, I was really surprised. Yeah. Whoa. Like, this is real, right? We're having such a hard time getting money, and I realized we, we had this moment, this epiphany, Soraya, where I was like, we're elevating the other.
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Every person involved with this conference is the other. Yeah. And corporations can all day talk about how committed they are to whomever we wanna name, but when it comes to putting their money where their mouth is Right, they don't deliver. I agree. And I'm wondering if you think. If you have any ideas about how we can all leave this summit and, and really start to hold people's feet to the fire as we're moving into this new era where so much is gonna get decimated.
Soraya: I belong to many different organizations. I've set on the boards and advisory boards of many organizations dedicated to. Um, representation, diversity and inclusion in lots of different industries. And the first thing that happens, of course, is that you, you go after the easy, theoretically, money, people who you already know are predisposed.
If you belong to, uh, uh, an organization that traditionally focused on women mm-hmm. , you might go after. Women donors, right? Sure, sure. Yeah. Beautiful. To an organization that focused on black women, there were far less women donors that were black women. So, you know, your, your pool might be a little narrower.
Yep. But what what happens is that even as you say, it's, it's not just in your case that you've gone after the other, it's that even a word like Passionista. Marginalize as an organization. Mm-hmm, because of its feminized underlying, vaguely sexualized, you know, kind of con the language, the context, the biases that go into that.
Imagine if you had this kind of organization dedicated to men trailblazers, you just probably wouldn't call it Passionista. And so we end up being marginalized just by virtue of the words and identities that we're trying to support. When we do that, we end up, first of all, just going after about two to 4% of available monies that leaves the other 96 to 98.
That in terms of private money, comes from men, individual men, wealthy men. Mm-hmm and, and I'm always flummoxed. Why, why are we not asking these very outspoken, wealthy men who claim to be supporters of freedom and you know, on and on and on. I'm like, where's their money? Yes, where's their money going? I mean, I only vaguely tongue in cheek did I suggest to a friend yesterday that there should just be a Men of Conscience organization that handed money over. Here's the money.
Mm-hmm, but you know, very often money comes with strings attached. Yep. And that gets very complicated for some organizations, you know? Yeah. Um, so it kind of becomes a vicious, self-fulfilling cycle, cycle of scarcity. Mm-hmm. But we do have to find. To hold people publicly accountable. Yeah. Hold organizations accountable.
There's very little transparency. Yeah. That's a big problem. You know, so I don't, you know, I don't have a really easy solution. I would say though, that if you are a trailblazer and gender is a component of your trailblazing, be aware of the degree to which that becomes marginalizing. By default, I mean, for 10 years now, I've lobbying fighting, engage in activism around freedom of expression, online harassment, violence against women, and really and truly, you have to explain which gobsmacking to me still why that's a matter of democracy.
Yes, right. When your most vulnerable, marginalized citizens cannot speak without the threat of violence, yes, and harm and rape and lynching and horrible things, your democracy is not functioning. We just live in a society as we know where it's not until the freeze breach. Of the most powerful, who still tend to be cisgendered, straight white men, Christian. It's not until the those rights start getting scratched at that people pay attention to democracy. There's nothing new here. This is the, you know, it's the history of the nation that doesn't make it any less frustrating.
How can we come together? I think it's very important to come together. To for, you know, the, the one thing about the internet, despite all of its bad, bad aspects, is that it does enable people to come together to build fluid communities. Um, you can build, you know, chains of ad hoc communities. That are meaningful and valuable and supportive and you know, people can share moments of joy and humor and accomplishment and shared goals and visions.
And I think it's very easy, particularly since we seem to be pretending we still are not in a pandemic, but we are right. In a time like this, I think it's very easy not just to feel isolated, but also to withdraw. You know, I felt that tendency where. I think it's better to be alone than to be to, to subject other people to my particular mindset.
Right now, I know what that's like. We, we went to dinner last week and this weekend and I walked in. I saw a man and I thought, if he offers me a drink, I think I have to just, I'm just gonna say to him, well, what do you want me to have? Because, What the fuck where you're at. Yeah. That's where I am. Right.
I'm like, I can't have a conversation. I need to not have this conversation. Yeah, right. And, but I think that's a bad instinct. What we need is more connection, not disconnection, not connection with people we're angry at. I don't want to suggest that, you know, but we need to build on the relationships that bring us comfort and joy and connect.
And we need to make those connections with more and more and more people. I, I love what I, I, what I love about that is that, um, I've been saying that if we really, truly are ready to disrupt white supremacy and racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, all the things, if we are really truly there, then connecting on.
And allowing ourselves to let this crumble right is really important because I don't wanna live under a regime that is founded on the doctrine of discovery and manifest destiny. That's exactly right. Like we have been, we've been, nobody knows, frankly, what the doctrine of discovery is. Right. It is the document that our constitution is founded on, which says if you go to a piece of land from wherever you are and you, uh, whatever European Christian country, whatever European Christian country you're coming from, and you discover it, then you have free reign to kill everybody who's on it. So you can discover it. Yeah. And that is the Reader's Digest condensed version in literally half a second.
Melissa: But I don't wanna live under that and when we come together and hold each other in all of this and we connect wherever we're at, then we can start to figure out ways to move through this as it is burning around us.
Soraya: Yeah. Yeah. And I think too in, in terms of coming to terms with what all of that really means, I think that. What's very clear is that communities that have been under-resourced and PO and and punished for centuries. For centuries, right, they have been responsible for themselves. They have already been at war with the government.
They have already been punished repeatedly by the society. Yes. You know, this is not new. Honestly, what's new right now I think is the shock to white communities. Just like, just like when Trump was elected, frankly. Yeah, right. Just the shock of it. To some people that, my God, it can actually happen. And you're like, yeah, yes it can.
Yeah, sure enough it can. Cause it has, it's happened over and over and over again. And so that circle of people who are negatively affected is now bigger. And I think part of the problem is the instinct in many communities is, well, we need to do something and then they start from. Instead of stepping back and thinking this would be a really good time to educate myself, to listen, to learn, to support the leaders who've already been doing this, the communities that understand how to do this, you know, and I know this too, I will say this flat out because I have seen this over and over again.
What often happens, particularly among. You've seen this too, right? In feminist organizations, but philanthropic organizations that aren't specifically feminists. White women will replicate patriarchal power structures by default, you know, and, and they will act in ways that are corrosive. To other types of organizations and societies.
So very hierarchical, very dominant, very power over, very top down. We've seen that. We've seen that destroy organizations over and over again. So I think it's just really important in this moment. To step back and be very self-reflective. How am I contributing to this problem structurally without knowing it?
What mistakes have I made? What can I learn? How can I be quiet? How can I learn? How can I learn? Is really, I think, possibly the most important thing that can, the question people can ask right now, we all can learn.
Melissa: Soraya:, thank you so much for your time. Oh, thank you. I'm blazing a trail that I can go running down to.
Soraya: No, thank you again. Really and truly. And you know, I wanna say thank you to Nancy and Amy especially, um, and always such a delight to talk to you and to work with you in solidarity. Um, so thank you all very.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to the awards presentation with Soraya Chemaly, and thanks to Dr. Melissa Bird for the amazing interview.
To learn more about Dr. Bird, visit DrMelissaBird.com. To learn more about Soraya, visit SorayaChemaly.com and be sure to subscribe to The Passionista Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests. Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.
Wednesday Nov 30, 2022
Danay Escanaverino Celebrates, Elevates and Connects People in the Latin Community
Wednesday Nov 30, 2022
Wednesday Nov 30, 2022
We presented Danay Escanaverino with the 2022 Passionista Persist Vanguard Award for her great work celebrating, elevating and connecting people in the Latin community. She is an award-winning Latina serial entrepreneur, a speaker and a community builder. As CEO of Boutique Digital Agency, Luna Sol Media, she connects brands to Latino consumers, delivering millions of leads and sales to her clients. A Cuban immigrant and the daughter of a political prisoner, she’s fiercely passionate about elevating the Latino community. As founder of Latina Meetup, she has introduced thousands of Latina brands to millions of consumers, and as the founder of Amigos, she has facilitated hundreds of job recruitments, grants, scholarships and other resources for Latino professionals.
Read more about Danay
Learn more about The Passionistas Project
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, we're sisters Amy and Nancy Harrington. We founded The Passionistas Project to tell the stories of women who are following their passions and fighting for equality for all. The more we spoke with women for our podcast, subscription box, and the annual Power of Passionistas Summit, the more we saw a common trait in all of them — they are unstoppable. Whether they choose to use their voices to start a women-owned brand, or fight for the rights of the marginalized, we found that all Passionistas are resilient, compassionate, and persistent.
Each year we honor women who embody these qualities by presenting the Passionistas Persist Awards. This episode of the podcast is an interview with one of the 2022 recipients.
Our next award is the Passionistas Persist Vanguard Award, which honors a woman who's leading the way in the development of ideas and building communities. The award will be presented by Julie DeLucca-Collins and Dāli Rivera, who nominated this year's honoree.
Julie is the founder and CEO of Go Confidently Services and the host of the popular Casa de Confidence Podcast. Dāli is the creator of the Diversity and Anti-bullying Academy.
Julie: Hello everybody and welcome. My name is Julie DeLucca-Collins and I am here with my friend and Dāli Rivera to honor our friend and colleague Danay Escanaverino. She is being honored with the 2022 Passionistas Persist Vanguard Award for her great work celebrating, elevating and connecting people in the Latin community.
Danay Escanaverino is an award-winning Latina serial entrepreneur. She's a speaker and a community builder. As CEO of boutique digital agency LunaSol Media, she connects brands to Latino consumers, delivering millions of leads and sales to her clients. A Cuban immigrant and the daughter of a political prisoner, Danay is fiercely passionate about elevating the Latino community. As founder of Latina meetup, she has introduced thousands of Latina brands to millions of consumers. And as a founder of Amigos, she has facilitated hundreds of job recruitments, grants, scholarships and other resources for Latino professionals. Danay is a board member of Latinas in Business and is a mentor for several accelerators and Latino youth programs. She's pretty amazing.
Julie: Danay congratulations and thank you again, for all of the work that you do on behalf of Latinas and women overall, you embody this award. So thank you for being here.
Danay: Thank you, Julie. And thank you Valley for this gorgeous award. And thank you to The Passionistas Project. I have to tell you that, when you do stuff that you're so passionate about, and you get recognized, it's just that much more amazing because it means that people get it, people get the impact of what you're so passionate about. And so I really I'm absolutely humbled, especially being presented by two women that I am so, so much a fan of. So yeah, I'm super thrilled. Thank you so much for this award. I'm absolutely humbled and very happy to receive it.
Julie: Thank you, you embody the award. And the one thing that you mentioned that I definitely want to ask you about is what are you passionate about?
Danay: I am passionate about Latinos, the Latino community and specifically about us being unified in supporting each other. And that's my thing. I'm an immigrant. I came from Cuba when I was a little girl. My dad was a political prisoner. And even though, since the 2016 election, where the conversation about Latinos turned really sour and it was all about how we were a drain on the economy and a drain on the immigration system, and that's not what I grew up with. I grew up in Miami, in thriving neighborhoods and businesses. We make the economy go. We've brought the economy back from the last two recessions. We lead in job creation, we lead in business creation, we lead and entrepreneurialism. I just want to continue to change how we talk about Latinos and how we support each other as a community. And so I'm super, super passionate about that. And that's kind of why I do the things I do. That's why I'm really big into community and making sure that we foster opportunities for Latinos to lead and Latinos to help each other out.
Julie: I totally understand and admire that sentiment because it's very much aligned with mine. I also grew up in Miami and I know from the Miami community and also the New York community that I have been so closely tied to, that Latinos definitely are always there to contribute always there to lend a helping hand. And we are going to raise every boat with our tide. We feel very strongly that what we have to offer is not just for us but for everyone. And I love that you're passionate about that. And you're really shedding a light into that. I loved every work that you have done in Clubhouse since I've met you. And since knowing you I knew that I needed to connect you to Nancy and Amy and the Passionistas community. Nancy and Amy are phenomenal individuals who are putting together a group of powerful women and through the summer, the Power of Passionistas really embodies the spirit of women who are making a large impact like you are in communities around you using gifts and talents. What does the power of Passionistas mean to you?
Danay: The power is in the name, right? So when you're passionate, and you're led by that passion, I think that just translates into power and it's up to you how you want to use that power. So really, it's all in the name for me. And then, I'm a big old geek, I'm a dork. Anybody who knows me knows that I love learning. I adore the fact that there's going to be an event where we all get to learn from the community from each other from the leaders in the community. I think that's huge because there's so much power in the wealth of knowledge that's being shared. I'm excited to be part of this community. And I can't thank you enough for introducing me to it.
Julie: You really embody a Passionista. You are so passionate about your community, you are passionate about lifting everyone up. And I think that this is a great opportunity for people to know that something that they feel passionate about their roots, especially in in our current world. We are we're living in a society now that tends to want to minimize the voices of women. And I so appreciate the fact that not only are you allowing to be platforms for women and minority women to be able to speak up but be awarded with grants, opportunities, and also highlighted for the amazing work that they're doing. So this is so much in alignment with being a Passionista, and I so love everything that you're doing. And I cannot be more tickled pink, because I'm a girly girl, that you are here is one of the Passionistas as well.
Dāli: And Danay, I must say before I ask my questions that you have been such an inspiring individual in my life, and as well as in many other people's lives. Every time I tell people about you, I say check her out. And they're like, oh my gosh, she's amazing. Because you do what you say you're going to do. And you always have that lens of where can I help others? What can we do together and you are a great, great mentor. And it's so nice to see Latinas like you doing that for our community. And you have also educated us so much on the power that we hold, because until I met you, I wasn't aware that we had so much economic power that we pulled out of the recession. We weren't the reason why. And I was like holy smokes. Why don't more Latinos know about this? I think that if more Latinos knew if more Latinos came to the night and heard this from her, there would definitely make a difference in how they use their purchasing power. I just wanted to add, that'd be for a question. But do you have a time where you felt that you really had to persist?
Danay: I mean, I think we all do, right? I have my struggles. I’ve had my struggles. I came over here as an immigrant. We were poor. My dad was an alcoholic — very, very toxic childhood. I was the only woman in many spaces. In my in the in the early parts of my career, I would go to trade shows with like, 10,000 people and I was like one of maybe a few women and definitely the only Latina in meetings. My gosh, I remember, the first time I went into a board meeting as a director of marketing for a company, a startup that had been acquired, and the CEO, I guess he didn't like my confidence and he actually tried to belittle me and asked me to order coffee for everybody, when really I was there to make a presentation about all of the things that we were working on. So, and stuff like that has happened consistently in my life.
But I have something that I feel like it's a superpower and that is my perspective. My perspective is, I am so lucky, I literally won the frickin’ like life lottery just for the fact that I get to live in the United States and I get to chase my dreams and my goals. And it's all on me. I get to bring people with me along for the ride, when they want to come with me, and if they're ready, and that's why I'm always trying to educate our community that we're super powerful. Change your perspective, a lot is wrong in society, a lot is wrong in the world, a lot is wrong in this country —— but a lot is right. And mostly the opportunity is right.
I have 60 something cousins and aunts and uncles still living in Cuba, who have absolutely zero future, zero opportunity. They can barely make ends meet. There are no answers. To me, there's nothing there. So that's my perspective, every time I feel like something is difficult or I have something to overcome, that perspective reminds me, okay, but you're in a position of real, real privilege because you have opportunity, and it's on you.
Dāli: I love something that you said in there that there's so much positivity, so much goodness that we can focus on. And I think that's what draws so many people to you. You make us see all of that stuff and especially when we feel like we're stuck, or that there's no options, you use that that positivity to emphasize that and remind us about that. Why is it important for women to lifted each other up?
Danay: Because if we don't do it, who's going to do it? And nothing against men, I have some amazing men in my life, that I have a lot of respect for. Heck, my best mentor was my big brother. But they navigate through life with a totally different lens. Everybody has a different lens based on so many different variables. And so you don't know what you don't know. It's like my kids. My kids don't know what it's like to be poor. My kids don't know what you know what it's like not to be able to pay for your light bill. And so I can tell them as much as I want until I'm blue in the face about what it was like growing up without anything, but they'll never know.
So that's kind of the same thing with men. Men just don't know, the challenges that women face. They can be great allies, but you don't know what you don't know. And so, because we are women, we have that in common, we understand those challenges that we face. Whether it's misogyny, whether it's, pay inequality, all of the different wonderful challenges that women face. So it's up to us to help each other out. It's up to us to elevate each other and really walk that walk with each other, because nobody else is going to do it. So it's our responsibility and we need to take that responsibility and really help each other out. And, be sisters and do our thing for each other help each other out.
Dāli: And I think that the more that we have that conversation, and see leaders like yourself, taking that on and actually taking action, a lot more people are going to follow. And that's going to just change our future. I know it won't happen overnight but I already have seen so much positivity in like women's mindset of let's help each other out. We're not competition, we're just gonna rise together.
Julie: I totally agree with what Dāli is saying and I haven't known you as long as dally has. Since the inception of Clubhouse, when I came in, you were immediately a person that I felt like, oh, I found my people. You are definitely providing opportunities for people to be educated, inspired. You have tangible ways in which, as community members we can connect and really lift each other up. And this is something that you're leading the way. Because a lot of people like we've talked about before, can consider a strong passionate woman competition. But I believe that we are stronger together we can go farther together. And this is what you're providing overall for the people that come in contact with you and it's amazing. I so appreciate that and you do embody this award. Nancy and Amy are definitely so correct to be able to honor you for the work that you're doing.
Danay: I thank you for that. Again, it's very humbling. I really don't know how to take it other than people are noticing the work and that's what's really important to me. And so I accept it with tremendous humility and tremendous love.
Julie: I wanted to mention something that you said, because I think that many women have been in those shoes in which they walk into the boardroom for the first time and they are immediately wanted to be pushed around. And you didn't do that. And I think that we have to create environments in which women hear the story in which maybe there is a male presence that wants to belittle your efforts or your presence, and we have to teach people how to treat us. And I think you are doing that for yourself, but you're forging the way for those that are coming behind us to also know that listen, just because we come from as immigrants or we come from a diverse backgrounds doesn't make us less than. And you are teaching people to define you by the people that you support, you influence and you help. So thank you for that example, as well.
Danay: That is one of many stories that framed my life. And I'm sure so many people can relate to those types of situations. I really think that it's been the status quo for a really long time where women were the secretary, or they were supporting staff. And so I think it's just one of those things that men are not used to, especially in the boardroom, especially in the C suite or anywhere where decisions are made. And so they're just going to have to get used to it. And they're going to have to figure out how to navigate in a world where we make decisions, and we're, we're in the C suite and we're making those power plays. It's more than about time. So I love being able to share that story, even though it's embarrassing, because nobody wants to say, hey, even though I was at a certain level that I earned, my boss decided to try to embarrass me. But I think sharing stories like that really reminds everybody that nobody's alone in this. We all deal with it. So there are definitely ways to work with it and persist with it.
Julie: Well Danay, I have five nieces and the youngest is nine, and you are showing them that they belong. You are showing them that we have representation. You are creating for them a vision of what is possible for them. So I thank you for that.
Danay: Thank you.
Dāli: Now looking back at all of that you've accomplished where you are today. Did you at the age of 15 ever imagine the life that you have right now?
Danay: Yes and no. So, when I was 15, I was actually really angry. First of all teenagers, hello. And then secondly, growing up with an alcoholic father being embarrassed about that, being Latina, being an immigrant, a lot of those things made me feel like I wasn't good enough — the imposter syndrome thing and all of that stuff. On the one hand, no, I couldn't visualize it. But on the other hand, I always had something inside me, that said, prove everybody wrong. You're not going to be the statistic no matter where you came from or what you came from. I refused to be the person that people assumed I would turn into, because of my circumstances. And so yes, that part, the angry part of me that was like, no, I'm not gonna let anybody define me. There's more to this.
And I couldn't visualize it, right? Because if you don't grow up around like wealth, and you don't grow up around entrepreneurs, and you don't grow up around people doing well that looked like you, you really don't know. For me growing up in the projects, I thought that someone who had a two-bedroom, one-bath house in a working-class neighborhood was rich. That was my understanding. So that's why I say I couldn't visualize it.
But I could, in a sense that I knew I was going to do something — something of substance. I just didn't know what at that time.
Dāli: I can relate to a lot of what you said, because I think of people who are on a larger stage like say Tony Robbins and he shares the same exact I'm sure that you have shared that your conditions were not perfect, they're not ideal and you refuse to become that statistic or that negative, whatever people expected of you. And there are so many kids who choose to be what they're in, and then others who do totally the opposite thing. And it's really beautiful to see that because it just shows the power of your mindset at a young age to start making those moves gradually — not really knowing exactly where it's gonna lead to but it's not that negative experience you're in. And I always tell my kids, my 14- and 15-year-old about you are Julie, all the women that I find so inspiring that have come from conditions that are less than desirable. And I remind them, look, you have no excuse, there are ways to achieve what you want to even if you don't really understand exactly what you want, just start exploring. And like Julie said earlier, she's got nine nieces, I actually have 11 So there are so many little girls that now have you to see. And hopefully one day we'll get to see you on a huge stage nationwide because we need more Latina representation. I used to take it for granted saying that representation mattersbut there really is a lot of truth to that. It's so important. And a lot of people just laugh at that. But then you hear people talk about their success and they mentioned something like, oh, when I was this old, I saw so and so and I'd never seen somebody like me. It’s crazy that you don't know what kids are watching or listening to whatever that person might be seeing could be the person that just helps them turn their life around or routes their life to this great success.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and you're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast.
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Now here's more of our Passionistas Persist Awards ceremony.
Julie: Danay, we've talked a little bit about how you elevate people in the community. But for the people who are new to the work that you do, could you talk a little bit about the actual work that you do day in and day out to elevate the voices to elevate the community, and to really push forward initiatives that help to support the Latino community?
Danay: First, let me tell you a little bit about what I do for a living. I own a digital agency. I've been in digital marketing for over 25 years. I joke that I'm a digital dinosaur but really I am. And so I have the privilege of working with brands to connect them to multicultural consumers, mostly Latino consumers in the US and in Latin America, also in Spain, and Portugal. And so I have this point of view, that's very different. Because being that I have to deal with the data, I see just how important we are as a demographic. We represent over two trillion in GDP. Two trillion in GDP. That's a country. That's like right behind Italy, or France, I can't remember which one it is. We're like number seven, or eight or nine. But my point is, we create the GDP of a country. Not even a developing nation, like a full-on country.
When I see those numbers and I see what we represent — and I do a lot of work with market research and because we want to make sure that our clients know how important it is to work with us — I see that and it absolutely fuels me because I know most Latinos do not know this information. Again, that narrative has always been pretty damn negative. And it's just gotten worse since that election.
So I really, really wanted to make sure that number one we were educated about how important we are. And then number two, that I could find resources leveraging the clients that I work with, to really help out. And what I mean by that is when I launched Meetup, for example, in 2018, I made everything free. Everything was free. We had this multi-city tour of events where we had Latina professionals come in. I had sponsors that wanted to reach this demographic fund these events. And what did we do, we gave free headshot photography to every single woman that showed up that wanted to have a new professional headshot. We introduced Latina brands at all of these events so that they didn't have to pay to be marketed to their demographic. All of that was free. And a lot of professional development opportunities, again, all of a free because I really believe that the brands could fund that and we could have all of these resources for people that really needed them. We did a bunch of like scholarship opportunities. We give away a lot of free marketing to the community.
So when the pandemic hit in 2020, we couldn't have any in-person events anymore. So I translated that into we started having Zoom events. But it really didn't feel the same. And then Clubhouse happened. And I got onto Clubhouse in December of 2020. I can't remember anymore. So, I just got on there, and I didn't see any Latinos, but my brain was already — the synapses were sparking. And I was like, there's something here, there's something here, there's an opportunity. So I just started having these networking events every single morning. And every single morning, we get more people joining and more people joining. And the community ended up, being like 38,000 strong. And we started having events where we featured Latinos you should know which really has been a great integral part of tha. We've interviewed Latinos that are doing great things in our community, whether they're an author or a speaker. I mean, we had the president of the Girl Scouts. We had so many amazing people. I just wanted to make sure we connected them with our community so that we could support Latino initiatives. We’ve done recruitment events to get people jobs. We've done educational stuff. All of it framed around supporting our community and giving opportunities and connecting people with opportunities — like we did with the Comcast grant initiative.
There are so many things that I want to talk about but we don't have all day. Those are some of the things that we've been able to do with these communities, always keeping everything 100% free, because I really believe that the brands will support it.
Julie: As a business and life strategy coach the opportunity to present small BIPOC community with grant opportunity. And you've connected them with a major brand, which is Comcast. And you're bringing these spaces where people can come and find out, hey, how can I get money from my business? How can I grow? How can I expand what I am doing? And I think that that is so terrific. And I appreciate all of the efforts. I also love, I'm a big proponent of social media audio like Clubhouse is a great place to be able to connect with individuals. You've made some great introductions and bringing guests that are relevant. We do have these conversations where people that are Hispanic descent and LatinX are really showing the world that we matter, that we also can speak with our dollars and can bring an influence to what is happening around in our communities.
Dāli: As you were creating Latina Meetup and Amigos on Clubhouse. One of the things that I know for sure, that has made people feel accepted is that you invite them to be participants by hosting their own rooms and promoting themselves. And that is huge because so many people will only allow you to do that if you pay. And this is very powerful because the people who have started — like I remember I found you through Facebook on Latina Meetup — and then you invited me to this thing on Clubhouse’s Amigos Club. I was like, oh, I had no idea what it was. And you asked, would you like to be a moderator? And I was like, sure, why not? I had no idea that this little thing was going to become something so huge. I'm forever grateful because growing up Nicaraguan in California, I never found a place or a community of Latinos where I felt included because I was always too different. Then I found Amigos and Latina Meetup and it's like, oh my gosh, I am home. And as we've had so many rooms, I always hear that from people. They always say, oh, my gosh, I found my tribe. I found my people. And we've had people from all over the world. We have had some Syrian-Mexican people, we've had Canadian Mexicans, we've had Colombian, Puerto Ricans. And it's like, whoa, mind-blowing, because we're also learning about our own diversity within our community. And that is really beautiful.
The other thing that you always emphasize is the power of networking and collaboration. And people come into our networking rooms, and they say, hey, I just want to let you know that I got so many clients from this networking session, or we did this collaboration, and it was very successful. And I think when people hear that, and see the consistency of you always creating those opportunities in that space, people just keep coming, because they know that there's true value there. And what's really exciting now is that now that LinkedIn is doing their audio app to now we're moving over to that platform. And I think it's just going to be even bigger and greater because you have formed that essence that we are professionals trying to move up, trying to help communities and just trying to prosper,
Dāli: Danay, said something that I want to go ahead and counter she said that she is a dinosaur in the digital space, but really she is an early adopter. She speaks my language. I am the first one who's going to try to adopt new technology. I'm not sure how it works at first but I know that this is one of her strengths. The fact that she explores and is not afraid. She is not a but kind of person. She is a yes and. And that adoption of technology of resources and being inclusive and creating the inclusive spaces for everyone. And again, one of the things that I've heard her say about the community, but also about what we do, is that yes, we are the Amigos Club of the Latina Meetup, but it's not exclusive to we are open to everyone and anyone who wants to be a part of the community and help to kind of link arms and go forward and move ahead and support one another in a way that we can continue to grow. That is rarely seen in many communities. A lot of communities like or I only do this and I have that. But this really speaks to me and how you embody this award of persisting no matter what the challenges are, and looking at the bright side of anything that you are doing. And making sure that you forge a way for others to have a seat at the table and be engaged in definitely benefit from all the different opportunities that come from being present.
Danay: I will say that, when you said, having a seat at the table, I feel like we're creating our own table. We really are creating our own table. And we're creating our thought leaders and it's not a lot of work. Basically, when somebody has the passion to become a thought leader, for example, Dāli amazing work in the anti-bullying, parenting space. And I'm like, why isn't she on 20 million stages, talking about this because that's her passion. And she does amazing work with it. I mean, you just have to listen to one of her podcasts to see how great she is. She deserves to be highlighted. She deserves to be a leader. She deserves for people to look at her. And the same thing with you with the coaching and the confidence and the Tiny Habit stuff, which I absolutely adore listening to you're talking about it. You should be leading you should be people that other people are looking at for information, for knowledge exchange, for learning, for mentorship. And it's about time that we have our spaces where our community does that where our community can grow into leaders and show people their strengths because it's about time and you're there. Nobody's creating you. You guys are the creation. You guys are the thought leaders. So we need to have spaces where we can really, really feature you and focus on you.
So yeah, I love that you said that about the table. I think we have our own table. It’s an amazing, beautiful table to be sitting at where it's so multicultural and so diverse and yet unify all at the same time.
Julie: When I look at the world is with the lens of my heritage, of my Hispanic heritage, I think yes, this whole table analogy is so important. Because in our countries, right, no matter how little you have, there's always a seat at the table for people you meet in the street, and come on over. I don't have a lot, but whatever rice and beans I have are yours. I love that mentality that we are inclusive and open and want to give a voice to the people who for so long, haven't had a voice. We want to rewrite the narrative of what many people believe or the view that people have when it comes to the Latino community. This is a community with buying power. This is a community highly educated, as well, with very strong roots. It’s more than just the narrative that sometimes we might be presented to in our current media or current events. It's so important that people like you, Danay, especially through your work and many years, but really creating the space as we continue to move forward. It’s super important. I so appreciate. I think that this is persistence that you have done this for so many years.
Danay: I just wanted to say one thing that because we're talking about that table analogy. I'm sure we can talk like we can riff on this forever. I know you guys have heard this, I'll say it in Spanish. And then I'll translate it which is — donde comen cuatro, comen cinco. And it's if there's a space where four can eat, five can eat. And that's a huge, huge theme across all Latino culture. So yeah, I love that you said that.
Julie: I've been the recipient of many tables that it's not a lot, but it's enough. And with a smile and a little music and a little dance, you can make a party happen. It's just the attitude, and the openness that again, you embody. One question for you. We talked a little bit about this but one of the things that you are the Founder of is the Mira.Click Program. Tell us a little bit about how you can enable bloggers and YouTubers that are Latino to monetize their traffic. Bcause I think that this is, again, another place where you are creating space for people to benefit from things that are out there already.
Danay: This is an affiliate network and an influencer network. It's called Mira.Click. And basically, if you have any type of audience, and I'm talking about the five people who read your blog, or the 10 people who listen to your podcast, or the 100 people that follow you on Instagram, wherever your audience lives, there is a way to monetize that audience. The narrative has always been, oh, you need millions of followers to really make some money. You do not. You just need the right match for your audience. And so the network, the Mira.Click Network, brings in offers from brands. And then if you are someone with an audience, which we call an affiliate or an influencer or now the new term is creator, if you have an audience, you can jump onto the network, find brands and find programs and products and services that match your audience, promote them and make a commission.
It’s not always about generating a sale. A lot of the times it's about a click. We pay for clicks, sometimes. Sometimes we'll pay for a lead. Sometimes we'll pay for a phone call. Each offer is different. Each campaign that we have is different. We have hundreds of campaigns and different types of payout models. But the most important part about it is that there is a way for you to monetize your audience as a creator, affiliate influencer, however you want to call it. But yeah, there's an opportunity to monetize.
Julie: That's terrific. And again, creating spaces and allowing people to leverage their buying power and allowing people to leverage what they're already doing to be able to move to the next level and improve. Danay, what's in the future for you.
Danay: Oh, total world domination.
Julie: The power being a Passionista for sure.
Danay: The future is my goal right now is to continue to build our community and continue to teach people how to be influencers, some people already are, they just need a little bit of help with the branding or whatever. Again, always being free. So my view is, in the next two or three years, we're going to have an army of Latino influencers that are going to be doing great, whether they want to be paid as a creator or whether they want to be a speaker. But hopefully getting them to also continue to share the message that we are important, we are powerful and we need to stick together and be unified. So that's, in a nutshell. You know, a little bit of world domination.
Dāli: Thank you so much for all the work that you do, and also for allowing us to be part of that journey. It's really special and I really feel blessed and privileged to be within your circle because. you've actually helped me grow personally and professionally. And, and I look forward to seeing the journey continue.
Julie: Danay, I also echo with Dāli said. But I also want to follow up because one is one word that you want to leave with the listeners. They're not meant necessarily a Latino or part of the community but how can they participate and be a part of the community and part of our table and also make an impact?
Danay: There is a word in Spanish that I use a lot. It's dalay, which means let's go. So for me, it's if you are passionate, if you're looking for a community, if you're looking to grow, to be mentor to mentor comm come hang out with Amigos and dalay! Lets go!
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Persist Awards presentation with Danay Escanaverino. And thanks to Julie DeLucca-Collins and Dāli Rivera for the amazing interview. To learn more about Julie visit goconfidentlycoaching.com. To learn more about Dāli, visit Dālitalks.com. To learn more about Danay, visit lunasolmedia.com.
And if you're looking for the perfect holiday gift for the women in your life, visit thepassionistasproject.com to order our subscription box filled with products made by women-owned businesses and female artisans to inspire women to follow their passions. Get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription using the code WINTERMYSTERY.
And be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.
Until next time, stay well and stay passionate
Tuesday Nov 15, 2022
Kim Roxie Is Bringing Love and Kindness to Makeup
Tuesday Nov 15, 2022
Tuesday Nov 15, 2022
Kim Roxie, founder of LAMIK Beauty, has created a clean cosmetics line for women of color, women who historically have been marketed more toxic makeup options than their counterparts. She continually breaks new ground with LAMIK, including becoming the first black-owned clean makeup brand to launch on ULTA.com. Most importantly, Kim has built a company that embraces two core cultures — to be kind to people and to be kind to the planet. Kim is building an inclusive community for women across the country and is passionate about serving that community. And she's creating the highest quality products with the purest ingredients to promote the health of her customers and her community, all while being dedicated to promoting environmental stewardship.
Learn more about LAMIK Beauty.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Passionistas: We first met Kim Roxie, founder of LAMIK Beauty, when she participated in a panel at the Power of Passionistas Summit in 2020. We were instantly drawn to her company's mission to create a clean cosmetics line for women of color, women who historically have been marketed more toxic makeup options than their counterparts since the launch of LAMIK 2.0.
In 2020, Kim has turned her own struggle with hair loss into the one, one of the most impactful beauty lines on the. And she continues to break new ground with LAMIK, including becoming the first black owned clean makeup brand to launch on Ulta.com. Most importantly, Kim has built a company that embraces two core cultures — to be kind to people and to be kind to the planet.
LAMIK supports and celebrates women in all of their glory. Kim is building an inclusive community for women across the country and is passionate about serving that community. And she's creating the highest quality products with the purest ingredients to promote the health of her customers and her community, all while being dedicated to promoting environmental stewardship.
Kim has been named one of the Houston Business Journals 40 Under 40 of the American Business Journals most influential young executives, and one of the 30 Black Stars by Face to Face Africa. The city of Houston, formally named June 23rd as Kim Roxie Day in her honor, and she received the Barack Obama Lifetime Achievement Award for community service. She is, without a doubt, a superstar, which is why it was our distinct honor to present the 2022 Passionistas Persist Nova Award to Kim Roxie.
Kim: Wow. Am I floored right now? Am I grateful? Um, the words that come to my mind are, you know, people don't have to show you appreciation. They can go along like it never happened. And, you know, I appreciate the Passionistas because they have put their passion into action. And for that, I am so grateful. Being on this journey of creating an inclusive, a very, uh, kind makeup line in a world of beauty that sometimes seems intimidating. Um, took a lot of passion and it took a lot of grit and it took a lot of belief.
Um, and so I thank. Um, you all for endowing me with this award and seeing the work that we're doing at LAMIK is once to be honored. Um, and I honor you for that. I honor you for seeing me. Um, I honor you for seeing LAMIK and what we're doing, so we're gonna continue to make makeup that is speaking to all skin tones, that's showing up for all skin tones. Uh, but more than that, we're gonna continue to be there for women in ways, uh, that others have forgotten about us. Thank you.
Passionistas: What are you most passionate about?
Kim: At this point, to be honest, what I'm most passionate about, about is, is almost like a variable that's changing right now. What I'm most passionate about is, um, Is enjoying every moment and getting others, encouraging others to do the same.
Like that's what I'm really passionate about right now is soaking in every single moment and giving others the freedom and reminding them that they have the freedom to do the same. Um, and so in beauty, I'm always in a woman's ear, right? I'm always there for her. And right now, that's my, that my, that's my most pertinent, passionate, uh, message is to enjoy every moment. Right now.
Passionistas: What inspired you to create LAMIK Beauty?
Kim: I have the inspiration for my mother, uh, who believed in me when I was 21, who helped me financially. Put her $500 to help me open up my own makeup shop when I was graduating from college. Um, but she later developed metastatic breast cancer and passed away, um, the year before my daughter was born.
And now my daughter is named in honor of my mother, Loretta. Um, but I have the, the, the passion of my mother inside of me. That's part of my inspiration. She wore makeup every single. And she trusted that the makeup she was using was okay. Um, but come to find out, as we did our research, it wasn't, And so I have that inside of me that's inspired me to create this line.
And then I also have the desire. For all women to see themselves in beauty. And so I remember going to the makeup co, uh, counter when I was in high school, senior in for prom and getting my makeup done and looking like a ghost when I left, cuz my face was so ashy and so gray. And so like a cast, uh, on my.
And I was thinking to myself, this doesn't make me feel beautiful. This doesn't make me feel good. And thinking we need, we need makeup that makes people feel good. All skin tones needs to be accepted and appreciated. Um, and so that, those are the themes, right? And when I created my first product for amic, um, it was inspired by my personal, uh, diagnosis with.
Alopecia the, um, a form of alopecia that I have that cause hair loss. And, um, my first product was inspired by that, our revelation brow duo to fill in my own eyebrows so they could frame my face. Because 75% of the framing of your face comes from your brows. Why was it important to you to build not just a company but a community of women?
Because I. You know, women will realize how powerful we are together. So there's this staggering statistics that talk about, and, and that I know, um, that 0.006% of black women raise venture capital. Um, 2% of women, uh, raise venture capital. But with crowdfunding, for instance, women actually, um, do better. Um, with the raising funds in the crowdfunding atmosphere and what does crowdfund take?
Crowdfund takes community. So I remember going to iFundWomen.com to set up a rewards based crowdfunding campaign, and I was able to raise the money that I needed to launch my website, do all the stuff that I needed to do to get ready to launch. And all of that happened because other women read our story.
Believed in our mission and said, Hey, I'm gonna put $25 behind it, $50, a hundred dollars, $250. And that's how we were able to raise the money to launch LAMIK. So I think that, you know, for me, community is everything because we get to show each other what we can do when we come together, when we band together.
Um, and everybody's input and contribution can add up to mean a lot. And now our community shows up. In so many different ways for us to be on Ulta, Ulta.com. That was because our community showed up and voted for us to win a pitch competition, and that's how we got on Ulta.com. It wasn't because I knew the buyers or anything like that.
All of this work is from the ground up. This is like, I'm just like anybody else who's watching like you. Prob people watching are probably more important than me. Like I am not a celebrity. I am not anybody important. I'm just a regular old girl from Houston that you know. Um, has gets to travel a lot of different places so I can expose myself to different things, but I, it is nobody I knew, you know, that was gonna gimme sort of this leg up.
Right. Um, all I had was my faith in God and utilizing that to say, Hey, when we come together, I seen it happen in church. I seen people raise money at church to, to pay, you know, one of the ladies light bills or something like that. You know, I've seen people come together, do stuff and that's why I saw it and I, and I sort of mimicked it in crowdfunding. So that's why I believe in community.
Passionistas: Why have you decided that kindness is a cornerstone of your business?
Kim: I remember someone asking me what LAMIK stood for, Nancy. And um, I was originally, I'll tell you, LAMIK actually was my name spelled backwards and the LA from my middle name. Um, and. But I never had told anybody that.
That's just something. That's how I created the name and that's what I had. But when someone asked me what LAMIK stood for in that moment, I said it out. I was like, and it was the first time anybody ever asked me what LAMIK stood for. And I said, Love And Makeup In Kindness. And so the first time somebody asked me what LAMIK me stood for, I could not say Kim's about backwards like that didn't even come out.
All the work I did to put into creating le me, I was doing it beyond myself. Like it. If it was for me, I would've not done it. Like I would've stopped. Like, once the challenge comes up, I would've been like, Mm, I'm good. Let me go do something else. But it wasn't about me and it's not about me. And so in that moment when someone asked me, What does LAMIK stand for?
I said, Love And Makeup In Kindness. And I said, love and kindness is your true makeup because beauty is revealed and not applied. I think that for, you know, for me, growing up, makeup and all of that was associated with people. You had all these different stereotypes and connotations towards makeup. I didn't identify with some of those.
I didn't feel like I was just this pretty girl wearing makeup. Then I didn't feel like, you know, I needed to, I didn't feel like, Oh, I wanna just cover up and I wanna put on makeup. I didn't feel like I was fitting in those, these boxes that people had put. And I was like, my love and my kindness the way I am, the love I have for life and for people and for myself and for others, and the kindness that I show.
That's what makes you beautiful, that makes you walk away from a person and says, Man, that's a beautiful. Right after you talk to a person or after a person does a kind act, you're like, that is a beautiful person. Right? And so I think that the beauty that is revealed is the beauty that's lasting.
Passionistas: Tell us about a time that you have persisted in your life and how you got through that.
Kim: I had my makeup shop, um, that I ran from 2004 to 2018. And, um, closing that makeup shop in 2018 for me was almost like how people feel when they like leave their corporate job. Because I was so used to opening up that store every day, working inside of that store, having my staff there, like was so used to that life that when I closed it and I, and I initiated the clothes because I had this vision of a building, a makeup line for 2020.
And, um, when I closed it, I was like, okay, excited, you know, I got this vision, you know, I'm gonna revamp, I'm gonna, you know, really concentrate on the products. I'm gonna launch LAMIK, you know, the product line, you know, all this. I had this like vision, but about three, you know, I, I joined an accelerator the month after I closed my store, April of 2018.
In, in Austin, Texas, when I first got in there, I was thinking to myself, Oh my God, this is not what I thought I was going to. What was go it was gonna be, I thought it was just gonna be like, Oh, just, just come up with some cute packaging. Pick out some colors, some branding, launch a brand, you know, And that's not what it was.
I got tore down to the bare bones. I got tore down almost to just like the foundation, you know how the people say like, you can, like, you know, you tear everything down, but keep the foundation and we're gonna build back up. That's how I felt. I felt like I got torn down to the foundation and, um, it was like, No, you gotta, you gotta really think through this.
And so, um, 2018, 2019, I. I had to be persistent to get through those times. You have to imagine. All I knew was having that store, having it open, and I'm trying to figure out e-commerce and I was used to brick and mortar. This is when I had to persist. I had to persist in learning. A lot of us think about persist, persisting in working.
Right. We think about just stay persistent in the work. What about when there's no work, it's only for you to learn. What about when you're in a learning season? And for someone who's used to, you know, having a, uh, cash register full when they get done at the end of the night and all of that, right? But you're in a season of just learning and it's like you have to be persistent in.
Wow. That was a season. So when 2020 came and we were ready to launch for March, 2020, that was our date. The pandemic happened, everything. But for me, everything closed. What I did in 2018 happened for everybody in 2020. Brick and mortar closed. Everybody closed. But I was opening up, and to be honest, it was the right type of, um, attention for e-commerce business to launch in. And so it gave me the opportunity and it, and it gave me a spotlight opportunity to come through with exactly what I had. And if I wouldn't have taken that time to get ready for 2020, I wouldn't have been ready. I would've still had a brick and mortar.
I would've been reactive, I would've been reacting and responding to what's happening versus p. Putting in the market what needed to be there for that time. And that's what I came in and did.
Passionistas: What does the term Power of Passionistas mean to you?
Kim: When you think of passion, um, you think of being relentless. Um, you think of being unwavering. Uh, you think of being crazy you think of being, um, you know, um, even to a certain extent, misunderstood. And, uh, and, and sometimes it's not that you are doing something wrong, but it is other people's understanding. They're missing it. They're missing it. Right. And they're under stating what you're doing.
And so, uh, but then at some point they, they, they rise up to the occasion to understand what you're. At some point, at some time, at some juncture. Um, and you have to be persistent enough to keep going until people get there, right? So when I think about the power of passions, I think about this grid of power of, of people, of human beings, of women.
Are so passionate, so relentless, so crazy, so, so misunderstood that they would continue to go beyond and be like a power grid for others to plug into. That need another moment that they need it. And so what you all are doing, what you're standing up, this power grid that you have that others like myself, are able to plug into along our journey to give us the charge, to give us the battery life, to get through this journey of entrepreneurship and life and professionalism that it takes. So, you know, you all just power grid.
Passionistas: What's your dream for women?
Kim: To know that we are, we are feeling a blank after that. Okay. We are the, the, the, the salt of the earth. Okay? We are, we are. The divine beings at birth life, right? Like we are. I just want women to know that we are what we've been waiting for.
We are the answer I want. I want women really to fill in that blank at the end. I do believe in, in in self-advocacy, and I, uh, uh, And that's the reason why I answered that question towards my daughter. Cause I already know the promise that my daughter has on her lifestyle. I notice she is. And when I think about women, I know that we are, you know, and you know, for women it is a weak situation.
You know, I think, you know, it is about us banding together. Um, that's why I love the power grid of the power passions. Power the passions. But I think that it's, it's just that we, and that we are, and we get to fill in the blank blank. We are a chemist. We are, you know, Um, uh, owners of trash companies, we are, you know, beauty pioneers.
We are, you know, we are that fill in the blank. And I think that that's what I want women to know. It is time for us to just show up and define, uh, what womanhood looks like, um, and know that we are.
Tuesday Nov 01, 2022
Miry’s List Helps Families Resettle in America
Tuesday Nov 01, 2022
Tuesday Nov 01, 2022
Miry Whitehill is the founder of Miry's List, a non-profit that helps families resettling in America as refugees get the support they need to start over by connecting them with their new American neighbors.
As Executive Director, Miry had the opportunity to learn about refugee resettlement through the eyes of the family she works with. She's spoken at universities, companies of all sizes, schools and nonprofit organizations, helping people learn about how the refugee resettlement system in America works, how it feels for families and how they can help.
Learn more about Miry's List.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionista Project Podcast where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and today we're talking with Miry Whitehill, the founder of Miry's List, a non-profit that helps families resettling in America as refugees get the support they need to start over by connecting them with their new American neighbor.
As Executive Director, Miry had the opportunity to learn about refugee resettlement through the eyes of the family she works with. She's spoken at universities, companies of all sizes, schools and nonprofit organizations, helping people learn about how the refugee resettlement system in America works, how it feels for families, and how they can help.
Please welcome to the show, Miry Whitehill.
Miry: Thank you so much for having me.
Passionistas: What's the one thing you're most passionate about?
Miry: Well, my children, I am just, I just love them so much. I have two uh, sons. They are six and nine, and I just love being their mom. It's actually very connected to the thing that I'm second most passionate about, which is helping people, and I love to do that with my kids, and that's kind of where I will be happiest is getting to do those things.
Passionistas: So how does your love for your kids fuel that and, what inspired you to start Miry's List?
Miry: So my youngest, his name is Savo. He's six years old now. When Miry's List began, he was just five months old. And, um, I tell him that he was the one that started the whole organization and he loves to tell other people that, that he was the whole beginning of it.
Because the very first family that I was introduced to, um, it was, uh, by my neighbor Suzanne. She had met a family who had just moved to LA as refugees from Syria. She had met them through her. And she thought to introduce us because they had also a five month old baby boy. And so she called me and she said, Hey, I just met this family.
They have a baby who's just about the same age as Savo and they just moved here. They need some supplies. Do you have a baby bouncer chair that we could give to them? And that's really how it all began. And from the very first visit with the very first family and in the months that followed that, I got to know them better and got to learn more about their.
My kids were with me, and in those first couple of years they were with me for all of those visits with the families. And fast forward six years, this has been an extraordinary journey for all of us. My kids have friends from all over the world. They're bilingual themselves. They speak English and Hebrew, but they also are able to understand like how many languages are spoken in Afghanistan and they are.
Aware of so many things that they wouldn't have been aware of had they not had the experience of getting to meet all of these people through Miry's List. And the same goes for me. I have now thousands of friends who have come from all over the world and it's been an extraordinary experience, really eye opening.
And, and for me it's like, it's the most fun, like when I. Meeting new people. For me, it's like I get to be on an adventure. That's how it feels for me when I meet a new person. So talk about like passion. This is for me, it's like this work is the Venn diagram of my passion, but like coming into a circle,
Passionistas: Describe the mission of Miry's List and how you support these refugee families.
Miry: The mission of Miry's List is to improve the experience of families who are resettling in the United States as. And the way we go about that is through the lens of what would we need if we were new somewhere? And when we say what, we're not only referring to things, we're also talking about more emotional, more intangible things as well.
And then also programming and support and education. And so Miry's List is a 12 month partnership with a family who's. And we will take them through the three pillars of our program, which are survive, hive, and thrive. And based on where they are in those three pillars, we're going to offer them programming that's specifically customized for the challenges that a new arrival family might face in that phase of their resettlement.
So for example, many Afghan families, right? Are, um, coming out of living in motels for a very long time. Back in August, there was a major evacuation of allies and families, um, living in Afghanistan. Many of those families were brought and put into army bases here in the US and then were quickly moved into motels.
All over the country, there's a national housing crisis, and so I think what was expected to be a short-term visit at a motel turned into a very long term visit for many. For families that are moving from a motel where they were with their, you know, maybe mom is with her husband and five or six kids, you know, maybe the kids haven't even been enrolled in school yet.
You know, it's hard to picture enrolling your kids in a new school when you're living in a motel and you're gonna move and you don't know when. We help with, you know, just getting that home set up. So, you know, from the very basics, how many pillows do you need? How many blankets do you need, how many bunkbed frames do you need?
Try to fit beds for eight people in a one or two bedroom apartment. You know, you gotta be pretty strategic about it. And there's some amazing things out there. But, but really it comes, it comes down to, you know, no matter where a family is in that 12 months, it comes down to just asking what do you need?
Passionistas: Get more, a little more into detail on the three pillars, the survive, hive and thrive.
Miry: Survive, hive and thrive is some is a framework that we developed basically giving a name to a thing that was already happening. It was something that we saw that when families were arriving, they were often coming at what we identified as survival mode, which means they have, for an extended period of time, been separated from the ability to make decisions for the.
Survival mode is not a choice. This is not a consensual thing for many families. This is not something where a family decides one day, Okay, we're gonna be refugees now and we're gonna begin this refugee journey. That is not how this goes down. Often when families are leaving, they are expecting to come back home within a couple of weeks or months when things settle down.
So the packing of the bags is not intended to be a long term trip and. For families, for example, coming from Syria, often they would walk by foot to a neighboring country like Jordan in that neighboring country. They are living as, as silos, often without rights, without the ability to work, um, and roll their children in school.
Applying for resettlement in the United States is a gamble. It is literally, I think we looked at the numbers a couple of years ago, but it was like 0.01. Of the people who need a safe haven after fleeing violence and persecution are actually making it to the US to resettle his refugees. So once a family goes through all of that, it's likely that they're gonna get here and they're gonna be exhausted, both emotionally and physically.
And so that first pillar of the program is all about giving families what they need to rest and feel safe. So it could be, does everyone in your family have beds to sleep? Okay. You're sleeping on the floor. Well, it's probably gonna be hard to like talk to this person about enrolling in community college next month and learning a new.
If their back hurts. And so that's kind of how we are able to ensure that when we are providing these resources to families and we're asking them what what they need, we're able to prioritize it based on the urgency. Families with little kids often need a lot of things for kids. School supplies maybe help to enroll the kids in school.
There's families that have immediate health concerns when they get here that they are just needing to see doctors. Parents come here, they're expecting babies and they haven't seen OB GYNs in many months. And so that's kind of the most important thing up front is for families to know that their, um, safety, their comfort is prioritized by the people that work at Miry's List and are volunteers.
Once a family moves into the second stage, which is hive, kind of imagine like surrounding at family with the people and the things and the programming that they need. And so we're gonna work with them to create a wish. That's going to be an extensive list. It could be 30, 40, 50 items of things that they really need to get that home set up to be functional for everyone in the family.
And it could include things that aren't even used in the home, like bikes. Somebody who doesn't have a car and is not familiar with public transportation. A bike might be a really critical thing for helping them learn about their new city and to get to know their new city. And then that thrive phase, which is the third.
We are hoping that that's where all of our families end up. And typically what that looks like is that everyone in the family who's school age is enrolled in school. Everyone in the family who is able to work is working and is learning English, and people generally report having a sense of wellbeing and a sense of a community support system that they are able to call.
So, you know, when we say, do you feel like you have a community support system, really what we're asking is, do you know anyone outside your family? Like who can you call? And when we look at the numbers, the difference between somebody having a support system and not after 12 months, it could be three or four people.
I mean, it could even be one, like just remember like a time in your life that you were new, some. And there was somebody who had, you know, the wherewithal to see you and, and make you feel welcome. That can be transformative. We like to offer our families abundance, and so you know, what we're, what we're striving for is 11 people that at the end of the 12 months, each family will have 11 individual people that they know who are not in their. Who they can call on and vent about their family too. No, just kidding. But we all gotta do it, you know, so.
Passionistas: Tell us a little bit more about this Miry's List community. Who are these people that are working with you and how do you connect them with the families who are resettling?
Miry: So, our community, we, we just call them the hive. This is all of the people that are involved in supporting Miry's List, whether. Volunteering their time, um, coming to our events, working directly with the families, coming to one of our welcome workshops and packing supply kits for families is a really fun way for people of all ages to get involved.
Also, donating money, and that could be something like $10 a month. Like you would be amazed if you would see our reports. I'm just like blown away to see what's possible when a lot of people are giving five and $10. It means we can plan because a monthly donation is something that we can plan around.
And then also one time, um, donations from individual people. I think there was over 10,000 individual people who gave to Miry's List last year, which is mind blowing cuz we've only been around for six years. So the way that we connect. People in our hive with our families is by, first of all, asking them what are you passionate about?
And somebody who really wants to tutor a resettling high school or in English, we have a program for that. It's called Sauna. It's named for someone, a young girl named so who came into our program in 2017. The program name stands for Supporting American Newcomers at Home, and it's a virtual learning program.
We have volunteers that are working with families to help them get jobs to help them figure out how to get a driver's license in their city. We're also working with families in 22 states nationally, and so it is quite a big endeavor of really, really nice people who are being really proactive about wanting to get involved with the families in their community.
And there's only 18 people on staff at Miry's List and. When you look at the numbers, you know, we enrolled our 940th family in our program this week. That's thousands of people at this point. You know, it's, it's, it's really, it's grown a lot and we're very, very lucky to be able to support 32 new families each month.
You know, looking forward, I think we're going to be doing even more to connect American people directly with their resettling neighbors. It. So beneficial and fulfilling and fun on both sides. And you know, that feeling of an adventure, you know, some might feel it as social awkwardness, some might feel it as, I don't feel like myself in this environment because this person doesn't speak the same native language as me.
And I feel just, it feels awkward and like that's okay. Like that's to be expected. And if you've ever tried to have a conversation with somebody who doesn't share the same first language, That's okay. It's supposed to be there. But remember this, if you are having a conversation with somebody who is new here and they don't speak English fully yet, and you are working with them and being patient with them to understand what they're saying, that awkwardness that you feel, you are sharing in the awkwardness that they probably feel all the time. And that is a tremendous gift and, and a memorable one as.
Passionistas: So how do thousands of people are coming into the country? How do you figure out who those 32 people are each month that are gonna be participating?
Miry: We have a process for that, that is through our website. And, um, the majority of people who are enrolled in Miry's List hear about us through a friend or family who's in, um, in the program. So it's a lot of word of mouth. We also talk with lots of people who work in the refugee resettlement sector, so case workers who are working at government resettlement agencies. Sometimes they're referred to Miry's List by their case worker, but typically it's by a cousin or an aunt or an uncle or a sister in the program.
Our application is available online. It's in English, Arabic, Farsi, Ukrainian, Russian. We're expanding to have it available in even more languages. Families apply on the first of the month. Our application will, um, go online at 9:00 AM pacific time, and it will stay open until we are at max enrollment for the month.
So that's 32 families. So what that means is that 32 families have applied uploaded documentation to prove the refugee status and arrival. And we have notified them that they've been accepted into the program since August, 2021. The application has filled within three hours each month, and so during those three hours, we're actually receiving hundreds of applications.
And so to make this feel like we're not doing enough, 32 is actually a really big number for us. A couple of years ago, we were enrolling 12 families each month, and we went from 12 to 25, and now we're at 32. And we hope to be at 50 families a month within the next six to 12 months. But for us, you know, we have to grow at the rate that is doable for the size of our team and the size of our community.
And you know, the worst case scenario for us would be to enroll too many families and then not be able to respond to. However, we know that we are in no way able to keep up with demand. So as far as looking into the future, there needs to be more Miry's list in the future. We know that families need this community support.
It is not instead of what's available to refugees through the government, it is in addition to and to put yourself into the shoes of somebody. Is new here. Might have young kids or maybe an elder parent to care for, maybe they speak English, but the other members of their family don't yet. So they're really worried about, you know, their kids succeeding in school.
You know, we have straight A students who are coming from Afghanistan and then their parents are worried, like, are they gonna be able to excel in another language? And by the way, spoiler alert, the answer is like, yes. Over and over again, our kids are succeeding and they are achieving. They get the certificate.
They are passionate about what they are learning in their schools and make, and the friends that they are making and the teachers that are giving them the attention that's needed. It is so hard to learn a new language at any age, but I think it's really impressive. You know, when I, when I see these success stories, when, when our proud parents are messaging us pictures of their kids', um, in incredible projects and work and, and.
You know, this is, this is what it's all about. You know, getting people to a point where they can just do things that are age appropriate and, you know, for a parent to go from, you know, in six months to go from, Do we need to flee our home because it is not safe for us to live here, to check out this book report?
You won't believe it. They read a whole chapter book in. I mean, that's important. We hope to be able to provide this kind of community support and this cheerleading for as many families as possible, but we're not doing it alone. There are community-based organizations all over the country that are working with resettling families and their communities in addition like us, in addition to what's provided by the government.
And those are the organizations that I feel really, really need the support. Although, you know the agencies that are working on behalf of the go. They are, you know, they're underfunded, they're understaffed as well, but we are the ones that are knocking on the doors and, and really, and really talking to the families about their needs.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and you are listening to our interview with Miry Whitehill. To learn more about how you can support her mission to assist families resettling in the United States as refugees and contribute to her Friendsgiving with Miry's List. Crown Funding campaign, visit miryslist.org.
And if you're looking for the perfect holiday gift for the women in your life, visit thepassionistasproject.com to order our subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans. To inspire women to follow their passions, get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription using the code WINTERMYSTERY.
Now here's more of our interview with Miry.
What impact do global events like the withdrawal from Afghanistan, the Ukraine war, what impact do they have on Miry's List?
Miry: That's a great question. I mean, in the last six years, we have seen, I would say at least three to five refugee crises happen, and, and I'm including Covid in that because Covid impacted vulnerable community.
More than the average person, although everyone was obviously impacted by COVID and still is to a to a degree. In August when Kabul fell and the evacuation of Afghan allies began, we saw a tremendous wave of support. Meaning we had more people filling out our volunteer form on our website. We had more people paying attention to our, our newsletters and our, our calls for help.
Also, the need increased dramatically, and so we raised an extra $250,000 at the end of the year in, in 2021. But we spent an extra $300,000 buying beds and mattresses and pillows and plates and forks and knives and spoons for these families that were pretty much dumped in empty apartments. You know, now we are seeing Ukrainians arrive through the resettlement system and the situation for them is also very difficult.
And it, and it is different, but it is also very difficult and. We are, you know, doing what we can to make sure that we have, that we provide access to support to as many people who need it as possible. So for us, it's looking at, okay, what languages are our documents in? Are people gonna know how to find us if they find us?
Do they have support to enroll? Is it just as easy for somebody from Ukraine to apply and successfully get into our program as someone from Syria or Afghani? And so that means asking, doing more calls for help, asking people who speak more languages to get involved and be on our support teams. We now have an admissions committee.
It's all volunteers. They speak something like 10 or 12 languages amongst the committee, and they have a hotline. And a family could call them and get support in any of those languages to apply for our program. And that's something that we didn't have make available until the last few months when we realized that this was something that not only was difficult for our families, but was very burdensome on our team.
Cause we have, you know, like I said, there's 18 people working at Miry's List. All 18 of us are working directly with families, including myself and. To be able to make sure that the families who are not in the door, but right outside the door, that they are able to access programming. You know, that's its own beast, and I think that that's what we have to do more of, kind of regardless of what's happening in the world for refugees, we know that there is a ongoing need for community based support for newcomers, and we wanna be.
We didn't, we didn't see this last Ukraine refugee crisis coming. But between the time that we heard about it happening and then the time that Ukrainian families started to arrive here for resettlement, either through the system or by presenting themselves for humanitarian and parole status at at the border, you know, we had time to prepare ourselves by, you know, getting those resources translated by bringing on more.
And that's kind of what it looks like. And we're not a licensed resettlement agency. There's literally nothing that Miry's List can do to make it more likely that the US government will approve more refugees to come to these. This country, we don't work with the government. We don't take money from the government.
We don't apply for government grants. We are here for the families who have arrived and so, Maybe you've heard about, um, the Biden administration increasing the, uh, refugee cap. They approved a hundred thousand. Ukrainians would be resettled here as refugees. Those are things that we pay attention to, but those numbers are often the ceiling, so it's a up to.
And so even if we have an increase of the refugee cap, Keep in mind that that isn't up to, So when the families arrive, that is when we are paying attention, not when a government agency makes an announcement that is all over the news and it's in the New York Times about, Oh, it's so great that there's this presidential executive order, but what does that look like for families? Okay.
Are are, is this gonna be a hundred thousand people that are gonna be stashed in motels for six months until nice people figure it out and invite them to stay in their guest houses? Like what else is the government doing outside of this? Honestly, it's a very broken system and I'm curious now, I mean, I, I, I've always been curious about this, but I'm extremely curious right now.
Historically, Miry's List has supported families who are from Syria, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, maybe five or six other countries, but most of them are in that region. This is our first time having families from Europe in our program. I'm wondering why are there challenges so different? You know, and this is just based on the, you know, I think we're now working.
Somewhere between 10 and 12 Ukrainian families. I'm trying to learn as much about what their experience has been as possible, because I wanna understand how the government is handling this, and also I wanna know how we can jump in to fill those gaps. So this is kind of something that's unfolding. While we're having this conversation.
So I guess it's like, thank you so much for prioritizing this. Um, and like, and just inviting me to talk about this today. What are those different challenges? How are the Ukrainian families challenges different from the other countries that you've experienced? So far, we have not seen the same process when Afghan families were evacuated, um, beginning in August.
And, and by the way, Afghan families can continue to arrive. Most of them, as I mentioned, started out in army bases. So we had hundreds and thousands of people in army bases just kind of continuing their refugee experience here in the US for. We don't have army bases full of Ukrainian families. I just don't understand that.
Why is their experience so different? This is the same system. It's, it's the state department's refugee admissions program. So why is, What is the difference? It's upsetting also. It's like not their fault. And like we have to remember that no matter what we learn, you know, like what we're talking about right now is something that's like deep seated systemic racism.
That's what we're talking about. You know, there's a lot of really, really difficult things that I have learned about that, about how the system works for refugees. And it started back in 2016 when I met that first family, you know, just visiting them in their home, looking around. I'm like, Why don't they have a crib mattress?
They have been living in this apartment for three weeks and we couldn't get a safe bed for the baby in that. Like the first day I met them, I brought a mattress. I just had an extra one in my garage. But I'm like, how is this a system that doesn't prioritize the safety of a child? And that was the beginning of me learning about this, this system.
Um, I also learned a lot about the financial burden of resettling, which means that it costs a lot of, For families to come here through the refugee admissions program, and also they often have to take on debt to do so. That debt is held by the resettlement agency or the government. So, you know, imagine like inviting someone over for dinner and then giving them the bill, except a dinner is what, $30 a flight, which by the way, is a one-way flight for them.
This is on average incurring debt of $1,100 per person, and that's just based on the hundreds of families that we surveyed about their, their, um, refugee travel, loan debt. What were they thinking?
Passionistas: So they bring them here, but they charge them for it?
Miry: And they start out in debt. The bills are become due six months after arrival, which is a full three months after the case worker has closed their case.
Often at six months, people are still under. What were they thinking? Here's what they were thinking. This this system was designed. Oh, well, let's find a way that refugees can build credit when they arrive so we'll, we'll have them sign a promissory note so they'll reimburse us for the cost of their flights.
I, I know it's a ridiculous thing because it doesn't build credit. It actually means that families are starting out with bad credit because the system is not supporting them to get jobs and just like everything else that's needed to be able to pay a bill on time. So there are so many difficult and really kind of icky things that I have learned about the way that this system is.
Ultimately, who is the one that is most impacted? These families? These families who did not choose this? These families who miss their home very much and the family members that they had to leave behind. And all they want is to live a normal life, which means being able to wake up in the morning, drop their kids off at school and go to work.
You know, I don't have an explanation for all of this and like I often will be in conversations. People who ask me questions about, you know, why I don't understand. They told us that we could come. Why are we still in a motel? Why can't we find an apartment? I don't know why the case workers can't get them into housing, and I know that this is a problem across the whole country.
Some places it's a little easier than others, but in Sacramento it's a ma major crisis in, in Orange County, this is affecting hundreds of people in San Diego. Same story. I have personally co-signed apartments for at least 12 Afghan families in the last six months because it is impossible to get an apartment without a co-signer without cash up front.
Some landlords are even asking families to pay a year of rent up front in cash in order to give them an apartment. So that's why families are living in motels long term. A individual person jumping in. Okay. Yeah. I'm gonna co-sign for you cuz I have a credit score and I can actually un established credit is actually worse than no credit.
I'm sorry. Un established credit is worse than bad credit because you can't even pull a credit report for somebody who has a social security number that was just processed.
Passionistas: Tell us about a, a couple of success stories that you've witness.
Miry: I sent out, uh, our newsletter every, every two weeks. We send a newsletter. It's called Hive, Around Five, and we feature five families with their photos. And we have a bio and a link to their family's wishlist so people can be part of this support hive for these five families. At the top of this week's newsletter, I had a letter from a young man named Mohamed. He comes from Afghanistan.
He's a highly skilled engineer, software engineer, and. He arrived with his wife, uh, who was several months pregnant. They originally were in an army base in Virginia. And ultimately when it was time for them to, uh, to leave the base, they kinda asked, Where do you wanna go? ? Pick a city in the, in the un. And he, um, did some Googling and he was like, All right, well for what I do and this kind of engineering that I do, I gotta be in silicon.
And so he and his wife, his pregnant wife moved to Silicon Valley and she's also, um, in the same industry as well. She's also an engineer, but they, they met working at the same company in Afghanistan, I think she was in the HR department, and he was in the engineering department. And, and that's how they met and that's their love story.
And when they came to Sacramento, we were able to link them up with a computer engineer who, um, is in Silicon Valley. Somebody who volunteers with Miry's List because he wants to help people get jobs and they were able to work on their, on his resume together. Um, he ended up securing a position, an engineering position at, that's at the same level that he was at, at his, in his position in Afghanistan.
They also had their first baby, a little girl. And she is thriving. And, and, and mom and dad are doing very well also because they are feeling that they have a community of people who care about them. And it's not only me and the other people that work at Miry's List and this nice volunteer George who has really made it his priority to make sure that he has access at, you know, to networking and professional opportunities.
But it's also just like we are updating him about all of these families that we're helping, and it brings him peace of heart to know that it's not just their family that has this, this support that we are able to do this for many, many more as well. You know, one of the things that we see when families get into that third, um, pillar of Thrive is service is a big part of it.
So we have lots of families participating as volunteers, not only as interpreters, but also doing things like donor outreach and involved in a. All kinds of ways at Miry's List and then also other organizations. We're not like, Oh, you have to volunteer at Miry's List, but encouraging people to be involved in service work in their community, it is incredibly gratifying.
Passionistas: How can people get involved and what can they do?
Miry: I'm so excited to send you all the links. We have so many great ways to get involved through our website. Not only writing welcome letters, but also getting involved as a volunteer either virtually or in person. All of those opportunities are described on our website.
Ultimately, what we want is for people to be volunteering in ways that are really meaningful to them, because that means that they will stick with us. Also, there are plenty of people that volunteer one time, and that's great too. And as far as the writing, welcome letters, that is something that can be done by all ages.
You can do it at home, you can do it in a classroom, you can do it at a birthday party. It's something that is, it can be quite fun. Um, we have a guide, so you can either write from your heart or you can use our guide or somewhere in the middle, but it will take you through five steps to write a perfect welcome letter.
We have big goals and you know, not only to be able to support more families. But also to be able to scale what we're doing and to reach more people in more resettlement communities across the us. And so in order to do that, it's not just about getting people involved by sending gifts to our families and writing letters, we also need people to support our organization, which is the infrastructure.
It means that we can hire people and train them and make sure that they have everything that they need to help the people in their c. This is something that we, we fundraise for annually in the entire month of November and into December as well. It's called Friendsgiving with Miry's List and it's a crowdfunding campaign.
We launch it on November 1st, and um, we are raising the funds needed to support families who will arrive in 2023.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Miry Whitehill to learn more about how you can support her mission to assist families resettling in the United States as refugees and contribute to her Friendsgiving with Miry's List crowdfunding campaign, visit miryslist.org.
And if you're looking for the perfect holiday gift for the women in your life, visit ThePassionistasProject.com to order our subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans. To inspire women to follow their passions, get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription using the code WINTERMYSTERY.
And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring. Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.
Tuesday Oct 18, 2022
Three-time Presidential Appointee Rebecca Cokley
Tuesday Oct 18, 2022
Tuesday Oct 18, 2022
Rebecca Cokley is a Program Officer, developing the U.S. disability rights program strategy at the Ford Foundation. Prior to joining Ford, Rebecca was the co-founder and director of the Disability Justice Initiative at the Center for American Progress (CAP). She was responsible for organizing a campaign that resulted in an unprecedented 12 Presidential candidates developing disability policy platforms.
Prior to her work at CAP, she served as the executive director for the National Council on Disability where she worked on sexual violence on college campuses, policing reform, and the civil rights of disabled parents. A three time Presidential Appointee, Rebecca served in key policy roles at the Department of Education and the Department of Health and Human Services, as well as a successful stint at the White House where she oversaw diversity and inclusion efforts for the Obama Administration.
Learn more about Rebecca and the Ford Foundation.
Learn more about Cara Reedy.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, we're sisters Amy and Nancy Harrington. We founded the Passionistas Project to tell the stories of women who are following their passions and fighting for equality for all. The more we spoke with women for our podcast, subscription box and the annual Power of Passionistas Summit, the more we saw a common trait in all of them. They are unstoppable.
Whether they chose to use their voices to start a women owned brand or fight for the rights of the marginalized, we found that all Passionistas are resilient, compassionate and persistent.
Each year, we honor women who embody these qualities by presenting the Passionistas Persist Awards. This episode of the podcast is an interview with one of the 2022 recipients.
Our final award this evening is the Passionistas Persist Humanitarian Award, which honors a woman who spends her days in pursuit of equal rights and promoting human welfare for all people. The award is being presented by Cara Reedy, a journalist, actor, director and photographer. As the director of the Disabled Journalist Association, Cara knows that the world is missing out on some of the best stories on the planet, and the journalist in her knows that can't stand.
Cara: I met Rebecca three years ago when I was interviewing her for a documentary I was working on at The Guardian. Literally, the moment we clapped eyes on each other, she screamed, "You don't get down with that LPA bullshit either." I knew we would be friends immediately.
Rebecca is a second generation activist. She's been around since she could ride on her godmother's wheelchair to, uh, protest. She was the co-founder and director of the Disability Justice Initiative at Center for American Progress, where she built out a progressive policy platform that protected the rights and services disabled people depend on for survival and also developed an innovative solutions like a proposed disability disabled worker tax credit, and increased access to capital for disability owned small businesses. She stewarded a campaign that resulted in an unprecedented 12 presidential candidates developing disability policy platforms.
She's a three-time presidential appointee. Rebecca served in key policy roles at the Department of Education and the Department of Health and Human Services, as well as oversaw diversity and inclusion efforts for the Obama administration. I'm honored to present her with a Passionistas Persist Humanitarian Award.
Rebecca: Thank you so much, Cara. It is such a tremendous honor to accept the 2022 Passionistas Persist Humanitarian Award. 43 years ago, my parents, both people with dwarfism, recorded an interview for a local news station where they said that they hoped for a future for their child or people with dwarfism would not be jokes. Could achieve any job they desired and live a life free from discrimination. Their work as activists and advocates paved the road that led me to youth leadership programs, to the University of California, Santa Cruz, Go Banana Slugs, the White House, numerous campaigns and today at the Ford Foundation.
As the mom of three, I find myself honestly wishing the same thing for my children. 43 years later. If there was anything I learned from my mom, a single mom who became a single mom when my dad left us after she got accepted into college, there was a lesson in persistence.
Sometimes the only way out is through. And in troubling times like these, there is no one else I would rather be in the trenches with, working our way through all of this hot mess, than all of you fellow Passionistas. Thank you again for this tremendous honor.
Cara: I always like to think about like how people grew up and like I grew up in a, in a house full of black people cuz we were black, that persisted through the Civil Rights Movement, but I didn't have a full understanding of like disability as an identity, how they intersect. Just I, I was a little behind kind of in my understanding of disability and oppression. How do you feel? You being a second generation, um, activist in this space has prepared you to attack the problem, the problems of oppression of disabled people. How did your understanding of your oppression as a child lead you to this and, um, having your parents kind of lead you to.
Rebecca: My parents never hesitated to talk about either our oppression that we faced as people with the warism or the privilege that we faced. And you know, you see, I have a good trouble banner up in the background.
Um, my dad was the son of a federal judge in Selma, Alabama. I have no problem using the term, a white supremacist federal judge in Selma, Alabama. Um, who. Routinely through Freedom Writers in Jail who oversaw the travesty. That was the Reverend James Reeb trial and who, uh, filed an injunction that made it, like, made it a violation of the law for three or more African Americans to congregate in Selma and talk about voting.
And that history was never hidden from me. My parents were very open in talking about. How my dad was raised, how he was brought up, um, his parents and, and siblings perception of the world and their place in it. And you know, for my dad, yes, he was, you know, the younger son of this, this big time jackass of a judge.
But my dad was also the only little person in his family. And so, you know, wherever they went, yes, he was the judge's kid, but he was also the d. Um, and his older brother had schizophrenia. So in a, in a very southern, very patriarchal family. Both sons were disabled. And I think that was something that was never lost on my dad.
His, his brother became institutionalized when my dad was a teenager and his brother was in, was in his early twenties. Um, and so while yes, he grew up with a lot of privilege, he also grew up with a brother. You know, nobody talked about. Um, and then he was the heir, or, you know, you had the air and the spare if we're gonna, you know, use a, use a, um, a monarchy term.
Um, and the spare was a little person. And so, uh, you know, my dad. Spent a lot of time thinking about what, what his life was like. And my dad grew up with gay friends in Alabama and saw how they were treated and ended up at a little people convention where he met my mom. Who was the, the number five of nine kids, all red haired flower children.
And it was love at first sight. My dad went home to Alabama and packed up the 69 Camaro and drove her from Selma to San Francisco. Um, and they got married like six months after my mom turned 18. And, uh, my mom was also the only person with dwarfism in her family. And growing up at the bay at the height of the AIDS epidemic, my dad ran a Center for Independent Living.
My mom ran a disabled student center at a community college. . And so they were losing friends and students and clients left and right. And I remember as a kid, like my parents skipping my ice skating lesson for us to go to funerals. And I remember like being like, Why are we going to another funeral? And my parents being like, Nobody deserves to die alone.
Like, we have a responsibility to show up for people. Um, and that was always my parents' core value. And you know, we would talk about things like, I remember. When I had the realization that my dad's best friend was gay. And I remember asking my dad, Why does Uncle Don's roommate come with us whenever we go anywhere?
Like, why, why does, why does Mark come with us? And my dad was like, Well, that's his, you know, that's his roommate. And my mom was like, Come on, Billy, Like, give me a break. And my dad was like, That's his partner. They love each other. And like, I was six. And so it was like, Oh, they love each other. Ok, that's cool.
Like whatever. Um, you know, so my parents were really open in both talking about sort of the, the ways they moved about the world, but also the fact that like, that there was oppression and that we had to talk about it, and that it wasn't always like stiff upper lip or, you know, pick yourself up from the bootstraps. That there are days that it really sucks being a disabled person and like they didn't hide that. .
Cara: You also kind of touched on like grief being a really big part of being disabled. I don't say that lightly. But what I, whenever I say this or, or bring up something that's negative around disability, people are like, We knew it.
And it's like, no, not, you don't really get it. Like, that's not what we mean by that. But it's, but there is a level of grief that is involved in being disabled. Um, because the systems let you down so often. How do you navigate your grief, um, to keep moving?
Rebecca: I was in your spot and I was interviewing Senator Tammy Duckworth, um, when we launched the project that I was running at the time at the Center for American Progress.
And I asked her about it, um, as a disabled woman veteran, and she said, You know, Becca, sometimes you just have to embrace the. And I thought that phrase was so perfect, and I was like, I've never heard anyone just say it like that. And she was like, Yeah, there's days. It totally sucks. Um, and there's days that it's really rough.
And that's, that's the reality. And we don't tell the, we don't do any of us a service by not being willing to talk about that. And I think as a, you know, as a kid, growing, My parents, um, handled people staring at us very differently. My dad being a southern kid and being a judge of son, was it, you know, eternal politician would go be like, Hi, my name is Billy.
And me like, I was sitting in the corner like going like at like six and I remember the first time I did that and my mom, like the other parent, grabbed my mom and was like, Do you know that your child just flipped off my. and my mom pulled me aside and was like, Did you just flip them off? And I was like, No.
I gave them the finger. And she was like, That's what that means, . Um, and I was like, Why is it okay for them to act that way towards me in public? Like, why am I supposed to be, um, okay with it? Um, you know, it's not okay. And like if I can't act that way in public, Like, why are they allowed to act that way?
And my mom was always like, Well, you know, different people are raised differently and whatever. But like there are moments like I find even now as a parent watching my kids grow up. Um, and, you know, two, three years of a pandemic meant my kids weren't in school with their peers all of this time. They were remote learning.
And I remember my son's response the first time. He saw his best friends from, that he had been going to school with from kindergarten on after this break. And he was like, Mom, they got really tall. And I was like, Yeah, they did. And he was like, Oh. and it was a reminder for my hus, like my son is a, is a jock.
He loves sports, he's super outgoing. But I remember when I was on softball teams and I remember when it got to the point where my 100% was literally dwarfed by their 100%. And no matter how hard I tried, like I couldn't keep. And that's like, and, and going through that period of time. And I remember coming across a, a book on dwarfism, um, recently actually that had my mom's story in it.
And my mom talked about how when she was 16, my grandpa, to me woods just north of San Francisco and with the family of nine kids, nobody got alone time with parents. It just doesn't happen. And my grandfather sat in the car with my mom in the, in the Volkswagen bug that they had and told her she was never gonna get any.
And, and her talking about her morning process and like that wasn't something my parents took for me. And so, you know, there are days when it sucks. I mean, I remember there was a job I really wanted a vice president for health justice for, for a progressive women's organization. I was a finalist. And then they called me to tell me I wasn't getting the job.
And what they said, and I quote was, Our organization is not ambitious enough to hire someone. Oh, and I was like, What the, like what the hell? Like, am I, is that a compliment? Is it an insult? Like, how do I even take that? And I remember being like, Oh, okay, like you're proud that your organization has such a ba like backwards view about the world.
Um, you know, And so I think it's just, it doesn't, doesn't mean you're not proud in who you are. It actually means that you have just. Like, you know who you are.
I've spent a lot of time like investigating ableism that like ableist ideas I have and um, I feel like you end up kind of almost mourning that like period where you're like, Oh, this isn't gonna get any better.
Like, it's always gonna be like this, but that's okay cuz I know how to do. And you have people to do it with. I think, you know, growing up with community, with people with all different types of disabilities, with role models, with dwarfism, um, had such a positive impact on me because, you know, did I know when I was like a teenager that like the people that I looked up to had the same insecurities and fears and whatnot that I didn't know they were the cool teenager.
Who managed to get their parents to pay for altering acid washed jeans and let them crimp their hair like they were cool. Um, and like being able to see that was really important. Being able to, um, . I remember the first time I ever saw a porn and I was at my godmother's bridal shower and I was, I was, 15 and in a room with a whole bunch of women with a whole bunch of different types of disabilities.
There were deaf women, there were cerebral palsy, there were women who used communication boards to talk. It was like the most like pro feminist, rabel, rousing crew of like disabled, crippled women on the face of the planet. And this porn came on. And I remember just like being like, I dunno what to do with this
Ok, this is interesting. And like they thought it was the funniest thing on the face of the planet. I remember just being. This room of like real, like what does it say that this room of really, like, we're sitting here laughing at the ables doing like sex acts on TV as a room of like disabled women and just being like, this is funny.
Like, right, this is funny. Like, am I supposed to laugh at this? And I remember my mom just be like, I cannot believe I'm watching this with my 15 year old daughter. Um, you know, and, and I think it's moments like that where, You share space or, I mean, as, um, my, Patrick and I just watched almost Famous the other night and they talk about the, the currency of being collectively uncool.
Mm. And I think there's something about that, like among other disabled people or among other people from other diverse communities too. Cause I've found similar, um, similar support and comfort among like my black women friends. You know, one of my biggest frustrations is, doing media and having the article come out later that's like little person, big, whatever.
Or you know, Rebecca's personality is so big. I never noticed she was small and it's so enraging cuz it's like, so you don't understand my reality and you don't know me. From the time I wake up in a bed that's oversized and huge and made by Restoration Hardware and I have to high jump to get on it, even though I really love it.
Um, I wake up in a world that's been structured for average type people, so I have to talk to you like a child because you're acting like a child. Um, you know, And so I think that there is this, I I watch media claim to try to. But that would actually require, as, you know, like the, the labor that comes with doing the work versus being able to say, Well, let's just like slap a reality show tag on it and call it a day.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you are listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast. Are you looking for the perfect holiday gift for the women in your life? Visit ThePassionistasProject.com to order our subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire women to follow their passions. Get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription using the code WINTERMYSTERY.
Now here's more of the Passionista Persist Award ceremony.
Cara: I find there's a lot of. Language around sensitivity. Like, Oh, we are going to be sensitive to, to disabled people. And I'm like, well, I don't care about your sensitivity because this is fake sensitivity. What I need you to do is do your job and investigate things. I don't care about your feelings. Which kind of brings me to my next question about you building out your the Ford Disability Program.
I, I feel like one of the things that you do the best, you do a lot of things great, but like one of the bigger, biggest things is that you're such a connector, but you not only connect dots, but you. You understand how to fund them and like it's, it's been amazing to watch just from the little bit. I know. Can you talk a little bit about how you've approached kind of building this groundbreaking sort of platform and base for so long?
Rebecca: The number one thing holding back work in the disability rights and justice base. We don't have money. And so I remember, um, when I was at the National Council on Disability, I should know even before that, I remember when I was working for President Obama and I needed to find people with disabilities that were experts in housing policy.
And I made like 30 calls and I couldn't find anybody. I was just like, Oh my God, this has, this is ridiculous. Why is there this problem? And you know, part of the problem is because people with disabilities live in a state of legalized, codified poverty. And so folks don't go to college or can't go to college, can't afford going to college, or if they go to college they can't work.
Cause if they work, they lose their health insurance. Um, and I remember just being like, what would it be like if like money wasn't the problem? Like, what could we build? And so I started years ago building this list that was originally entitled things that We Need. And it was like a cross disability rights community housing portfolio, like policy agenda.
Like what, what do we like? What are the issues? What are the problems, et cetera. Um, like what else do we need? Why do we keep, I remember saying like, why do we keep funding exoskeleton? When disabled people by the thousands die every year as a result of bed sores, like Jesus, do we need another GA exoskeleton?
And why is money going to this? And people are like, Oh, the, the averages and the ables are like, Oh, it's exoskeleton. So, yeah, but I'd rather not die of a bed. So, um, and so I just started building a list and then, uh, when I was asked to apply for the job at Ford, the list became a bit more formal and turned into cool shit.
I want the Ford Foundation to fund at the back of a notebook and in it, um, I'm very specifically laid out like, we need a place doing work on immigration reform. We need to fund work, uh, supporting. Native and indigenous folks with disabilities. Um, we need a disabled journalist organization. We need a disabled, or we need an organization of disabled doctors.
Um, you know, especially during this pandemic. And so much of the, the health reporting is just so crappy. So if we have good journalists and we have good doctors, like as a package deal, we can, we can move something forward. Um, you know, and real like, I need a disabled economist. I wanna be able to break down the numbers.
So we can actually tell the real story around disability and poverty and like, if we're talking about reparations, have we thought about how reparations would impact disabled African Americans? No, we haven't. Well, how do we make sure they don't screw African American disabled folks? Um, and can I get an economist to build out that work because I know we're really gonna need it, but no one's doing it.
Um, and that's like the most fun part of the job is sometimes just like sitting back and being like, Okay. So if we get this, this, and this, like what's the next thing? What would be really cool to do? Like who? And also at the same time being at a place like Ford, like I joke all the time that when I was at the White House, everyone took my calls.
No, like 90% of people took my calls. 100% of people take my calls when you give away money. . And I was lucky that I had friends that worked in the foundation space that were like, Enjoy it now. Cause when your time is up, nobody will answer your calls. They're like, so like, use it. Um, and so continually thinking of like, what are the spaces we need to be in and how can I use.
The privilege that I have in my role at the Ford Foundation to get our people into those spaces and make sure that they're supported in those spaces and that they can thrive in those spaces. Cause it's not just getting in the door. Cause like you can get in the door and then be surrounded by a room full of assholes.
Um, but how do we make sure it's the right door? How do we make sure whatever we're funding is set up to thrive? How do we make sure the people on the other end get it and are going to, to, to truly welcome and embrace, um, not just accept, but amplify and support disabled folks and disabled issues in that way.
And, you know, I think through my career, like having the, the sort of sense of scale of the community that I do and sort of the sense of the progressive world as it is, you know, just always continually like keeping, keeping track of who's doing cool work, Like who's doing something that's really neat.
Who's doing something that's different.. And is there a way that we can fund it? And if not us can I like connect them with another funder that can help support their work?
Cara: Your kids are third generation now activist, and they're already
Rebecca: Mouthy, obnoxious, persistent.
Cara: They're persistent, which is, they're persistent. Where do you hope to get the disability right? Civil rights space to hand off to them?
Rebecca: I want them to not have to choose whether they're black or they're disabled. Like I want them to be able to walk in a space, whether it be a disability, majority space, um, uh, African American majority space, and be welcomed and celebrated and support.
For who they are, regardless of who their mother is. And what I had to do to, to lovingly encourage those organizations to stop being butt heads and let them in. I want them in those places and thriving, you know, if they, if they wanna be. I've made a point of never running for office in LPA because my mom did that my entire life.
And I told myself I was not going to be an LPA officer because I wanted to be the parent at the pool with my kids. I wanted to know who their friends. I wanted their friends to know me. Um, and, you know, if they want to move in these spaces, I want them to feel comfortable with it. I want Kaya to be proud of the fact that Elizabeth Warren made her pinky promise to consider running for president one day that Elizabeth Warren called her to ask her about her presidential platform that you po that she had me post on Twitter, you know, and at the same time, I want ki if Kai wants to say, You know what?
I wanna be a teacher instead, or I wanna be a mom. I want those choices to be her choices and not choices she feels are imposed on her or limited by society. And I want Kendrick to feel okay for just being an average. You know, I want good jobs for, for average kids like. Light bulb turner is just not good enough. Like person who hands down stuff to their mom from the top shelf at the grocery store. No. Like he can go to college too. He can do real things.
Cara: What are you most passionate about?
Rebecca: It's hard in this moment to think about things that we're fighting for. You know, like I won't, I frankly, am struggling like a lot of people and figuring out what is it I'm passionate about in this very moment because it's hard to feel excited about stuff as a disabled person and watching society be like, Oh, we're just going back to normal. And like I was talking to somebody recently and they're like, Well, as we go back and our grantees go back to to the office, and I was like, Who's grantees? I was like, my grantees aren't going back to work.
My grantees are still afraid of going outside and dying. My grantees are mad that they have to take a, you take a bus to the pharmacy to get some damn in 90 fives, because our government didn't think enough about sticking them in the box with the task kits. I wanna get to a place where I can be like positively passionate about something I adamantly despise.
And I pour JK Rowling in all of the horrible things she says and does. But as somebody that grew up, uh, reading Harry Potter as a, a late stage adolescent slash early adult, I remember like reading the first book on the plane when I realized that they wouldn't card me as a little person on the plane.
And like drinking a Corona at like 19 on a plane was like the first Harry Potter. But I have a, I have a tattoo that says constant vigilance, um, which is Mad Eye Moody's, a constant warning throughout, um, book four. And I got that tattooed when Trump became president because I never wanted to take my eyes off of what was happening.
I knew it would be really easy to turn away and just be like, I'm just not gonna listen to that guy. He's a reality show. Blow. And we need to be in the fight. And so I dream I, I am passionate about getting to a day where I don't have to be constantly vigilant. Tell us about a time you persisted back when I was at the Center for American Progress and we were starting to talk about the 2020 election, and I remember a colleague of mine.
A dude who, um, was overseeing some parts of my work and may have contributed to giving me more aggressive migraines, which I still live with today. I'd never realized that somebody could actually give you a disability, but like this person gave me an extra disability and like I never even got to thank them for that said to me.
What are the two or three things that you would like to see presidential campaigns buy into as it relates to your people? And so at the time we were thinking, well, elimination of sub wage marriage equality for disabled folks on SSI and means tested programs, um, greater funding of special education and home and community based services, HCPs were like, Those are the four things.
And I remember sitting there and being like, Yeah, that. And I remember getting a phone call as I was walking through the airport, um, and I answered it and it was from a, a five 10 number, so it was Oakland and I answered it and it was a staffer for then Senator Kamala Harris. And they were like, Hey, so we wanna build a disability platform like it's own standalone platform.
We don't just wanna like weave stuff into. The senator is is talking about, but like we want our own standalone. Like this is where she stands on these issues. And mind you, at this point in time, there were 25 Democrats running for president. So the field was beyond full. Um, and I remember talking to them as I like walked through the airport and being like, Well we could, like, these are like the four things.
And they're like, Well, what else? And so I remember being like, Well, you know, we could look at, let's break down income inequality. Let's make sure that any income data is broken down by race and disability and race and disability together. Um, and they were like, Huh, okay, that's cool. You know, we talked about a couple other things and, and the phone, and then we hung up the phone.
Then like three days later the phone rang and it was Senator Booker's staff, and they were like, Cory wants a disability platform. And so what I realized at the time, there were a couple things. One, everyone was looking for a way to stand out. And everyone was looking for a, a piece of vote that hadn't been claimed yet.
Um, and the other part was on the cap website. Disability was right between climate and the economy. And so as they were going through pulling platform ideas from the organization, Like putting disability between climate and the economy. Alphabetically was genius because they were just like, Oh, let's call the disability people.
Hey, I guess we need to have a disability platform. Cap says we should have it. Like, let's do that. I remember like after talking to, um, to, to Senator Booker staff being like, you could get bigger than this. What if it's not just four bullet points? What if we could get every can. To have a platform. And I remember people at my office being like, Oh, that's never gonna happen.
And mind you, these were the same people that told us, Oh, this project's never gonna do anything. No one's ever gonna give you money. Like, ho hum, whatever. This is a trend. It'll go away eventually. Um, and then I remember actually like getting towards the end. And we had had, um, Pete Budha judges' platform come out and, and hiring Emily Vorge as a, as a campaign staffer.
Um, Secretary Castro, Senator Warren. Um, and at that point we were waiting on, on on, on, uh, Senator Sanders's platform. And I was on a train and my phone rang and it was a a two one oh number. And so I answered the phone and it was Secretary Castro. And I was like, hello, this is Rebecca. And he is like, hey Rebecca, it's Julian.
How are you? And I was like, Good. And he's like, look, I'm just calling to say thank. For what you did for writing that platform for us, I'm really proud of it. We're really excited and like this is massive for people with disabilities, for Texans with disabilities. He's like, this was a learning moment for me.
And we talked for about 10 minutes on the train and I hung up the phone and never in my entire life had I ever received a call from any of the candidates I had worked with. And then the next week, Senator Warren called to say thank you. And to date, they are the two political candidates, um, that I've ever called to thank me for my work.
Called me personally and just been like, Thank you. It was awesome. Like we learned. And it blew my mind because like, like I had expected we would get some things done. I expected, I was like, maybe we'll have an impact. But to see then Secretary Castro stand on the debate stage and get asked a question about education.
And him talk about, and then also specifically turn it around to turn it into a disability question to see Senator Warren take a disability question, See, you know, second now Secretary Buttigieg. Um, to see Senator Sanders talk about home and community based services after he released a 40 page plan that included everything and the kitchen sink.
God bless Bernie. And then to have to fight Biden and Biden's people who were my friends that I had worked with in the white. On putting out their disability platform and actually having to create a hashtag, hashtag access to Joe to shame them that he was the last man standing. We still didn't have a platform.
And um, finally getting that out and then being able to take a app and just being like, I'm gonna take a nap now. Like, and then somebody was like, But what about Marion Williamson and Andrew Yang? And I was like, Nope. Had nothing to do with them. B bye bye . Um, you know, and today to still have the relationship.
Secretary Castro and his team and Senator Warren and that they haven't given up. It wasn't a fluke, and if we hadn't have fought for it, we wouldn't have gotten it.
Cara: Why is it important for women to lift each other up?
Rebecca: We have a responsibility to do things better than previous generations, you know, and Richards used to say there's a special place in health for women that don't support each other, and I totally believe that that's true.
Cara: What does the Power of Passionista mean to you?
Rebecca: It's the power of the fight. It's the power of not giving up. Um, it's the power of the possible. The thinking about in this moment, feeling not excited about the world, but still not losing hope, like still having hope that we will get to a place where.
Um, we can live our fullest lives, be bring our whole selves unabashedly and proudly and excitedly to whatever table we go to. Or if we don't like a table, you know what? We pull out a chainsaw. We saw the damn thing down. Set it on fire and we have a campfire and we set a campfire that we can all bring our whole selves to.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to the awards presentation with Rebecca Cokley and thanks to Cara Reedy for the amazing interview. To learn more about Cara and the Disabled Journalist Association, follow her on social media at InfamouslyShort. To learn more about Rebecca's work as the program officer for US disability rights, visit FordFoundation.org.
And if you're looking for the perfect holiday gift for the women in your life, visit ThePassionistasProject.com to order our subscription box filled with products by women, own businesses, and female artisans. To inspire women to follow their passions, get a free mystery box with a one year subscription using the code WINTERMYSTERY.
And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests. Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.
Tuesday Oct 04, 2022
SNL’s Laraine Newman on the Power of Comedy
Tuesday Oct 04, 2022
Tuesday Oct 04, 2022
At just 24, Laraine Newman was part of a renegade group breaking down doors for the next generation as a member of the Not Ready for Primetime Players on Saturday Night Live. But that's only one of her many accomplishments in her multi-decade career. She's appeared on hit television shows like St. Elsewhere and Friends, and worked in film with legendary directors like Guillermo del Toro. Laraine is on the board of San Francisco Sketch Fest, regularly appears in the long running award-winning Broadway show, Celebrity Autobiography and has written for Esquire, the Believer and McSweeneys. And she's one of the most prolific voice over actors in the business, lending her talents to animated classics, including Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc., Despicable Me and Shrek.
Follow Laraine on Twitter and Instagram.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: The night that Saturday Night Live premiered in 1975, we slipped downstairs after our parents went to bed to watch the show with our older siblings. Our lives were changed forever. Before that moment, the comedians and actors we saw on TV were our parents contemporaries. But when the Not Ready for Primetime Players blasted through our set, we saw our sisters on the screen.
At just 24 Laraine Newman was part of a renegade group breaking down doors for the next generation. Laraine hit the SNL stage with impressive credits already on her resume. She had studied mine with Marcel Marceau in Paris, was a founding member of the legendary Los Angeles improv troupe, the Groundlings and honed her skills developing original characters.
SNL launched Laraine into rockstar status. But it's only one of her many accomplishments in her multi-decade career. She's appeared on hit television shows like St. Elsewhere and Friends, and worked in film with legendary directors like Guillermo del Toro. Laraine is on the board of San Francisco Sketch Fest, regularly appears in the long running award-winning Broadway show, Celebrity Autobiography and has written for Esquire, the Believer and McSweeneys. And she's one of the most prolific voice over actors in the business, lending her talents to animated classics, including Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc., Despicable Me and Shrek.
As she says in her memoir, May You Live in Interesting Times, she bore witness to and participated in many significant cultural moments in the country. And that's pretty cool. And through it all, she persisted. So it is our distinct honor to award the Passionist to Persist Icon Award to Laraine Newman.
Laraine: Thank you so much to the Passionist Project for this award. It's a privilege to be able to follow your passions in life, in my case, all things comedy, and to ultimately make a living at it. I don't take that lightly. The field I work mostly in now, animation voiceover, is very egalitarian because nobody can see you. You're anonymous.
They just know what you can do with your voice. What I've learned is that in a business like mine, you have to be good enough at what you do as to be undeniable, and that takes courage in the face of so much failure and rejection. Well, courage and what the hell else am I gonna do? I don't have any hobbies.
I continue to try and improve my skills to learn new things and see what other people are doing, New voices, points of view and style, that inspires me so much. Although I've worked hard, I suspect I've had less obstacles than the other people that are championed by this wonderful organization, the marginalized to specific.
As the mother of two LGBTQ children, I see progress. The world is more open to them than it might have been say 20 years ago, but we have a long way to go and thankfully there are entities like the Passionistas Project that are the uplifting gatekeepers, if you will. Again, thank you so much.
Passionistas: What are you most passionate about?
Laraine: Well, I'm passionate about, I guess justice, in the first place. I'm passionate about my kids. I'm passionate about my interests, which range from cooking to comedy. So I guess you could say that's a distillation of some of the things I'm passionate about.
Passionistas: You were one of the founding members of the Groundlings with your sister Tracy. So what was the atmosphere like for women in improv at the time?
Laraine: Well, we had a great director, Gary Austin, and he was, uh, you know, it was a meritocracy for sure. Whoever had something funny, that's what went up. And, um, I think that the world of comedy at that point was just at a turning point. You know, the Comedy Store had just opened, uh, there were lots of clubs along Beverly Boulevard.
There were drag clubs, there was Waylon Flowers and Madam. There was a great, uh, Australian comedian named Daphne Davis, who was also an impressionist. And, um, there was a, a openly gay comic at the Comedy Store named Falstaff Wilde. So I think, you know, even though there is a polemic about women in comedy back then, uh, I never experienced that.
Passionistas: So you went on to be part of the original cast of the Not Ready for Primetime Players on Saturday Night Live. So talk a little bit about what it felt like to be involved in creating this iconic show, and if you ever even imagined the groundwork you were laying or the doors you were opening?
Laraine: Well, it was impossible to have that kind of perspective. Uh, I just knew that all of us represented a different kind of style and tone from the disparate parts that we came from. Chicago, you know, um, Toronto, New York, um, California. And it was just, it was a great kind of stew of a whole new generation of people that represented something that you'd never seen on TV before.
We, you know, were so kind of, you know, the redheaded stepchild for NBC, wanting to just slam something into that time slot, you know, because Johnny Carson didn't want the reruns on Saturdays. So, um, we never even imagined anybody was watching us, but it was thrilling to be able to say, Hey. I wanna, uh, write a sketch about a girl who's from the valley as a stewardist.
Well, I'd have done that in the Groundings, but, you know, uh, can I do that? Yes, you can. What? Great. You know, so it was that kind of thing.
Passionistas: Do you feel like you and Gilda and Jane supported each other, leaned on each other back then? And what kind of ways did you do.
Laraine: Because we all came from an improv background, that's a very cooperative art form. So, um, naturally we supported one another. You know, uh, the high stakes competition we weren't really aware of until later. But we all knew that none of us could do what the other one could do. So it wasn't a matter of competing with each other. We were really competing with ourselves.
Passionistas: You were one of the queens of creating characters. So what's that process for you?
Laraine: The process of creating characters is, uh, my God, usually in the beginning for people, it's an amalgam of the people they grew up with, the things that they noticed. And I was such a myna bird. I mean, I just, uh, I was fascinated by dialects and there were just characters all around me that I later exemplified.
Passionistas: What's the power of comedy?
Laraine: It offers so many things. It offers, uh, the ability to frame things in a way that, uh, tells the truth without being necessarily threatening. I think George Carlin's a really, a good example of that because he distilled things and he arranged the anatomy of things like hypocrisy and corporate greed and, and, you know, organized religion.
He arranged it in such a way that people could see, you know, the uh, the flaw and the argument. And um, so I think if anything, you know, hopefully it furthers, uh, the dialogue on things.
Passionistas: You have two incredibly talented children, Spike and Hannah Einbinder. What's your dream for their future?
Laraine: They're already pretty much self-supporting, which, you know, it's like I've done my job as a parent, you know, uh, I'm so proud of them for that.
They have a great work ethic, so it's not like something that I have to worry about them having they already have it. Um, I hope that they see a world that is a lot better than the one that is around right now.
Passionistas: What advice do you give to them?
Laraine: Like they would take my advice. I've learned as a parent that, you know, unless it's solicited, it's perceived as criticism. So if they seek my advice, then, you know, always it's like, uh, continue to learn. That's all I can say.
Passionistas: Is there a moment in your journey of following your passions that you think would be most inspiring to people?
Laraine: The moment I decided to, uh, pursue voiceover, even though it was really hard world to break into. I just knew that I, I figured out that that was what I was perfectly suited to do. I wasn't as invested in being an actor or being on camera. I loved the idea of working and acting with my voice, and I. I auditioned for shows for two years and I, I got roles, but I didn't get series regular roles.
And then I studied with a guy named Charlie Adler and Chris Zimmerman. And you know, I think the willingness to continue to learn and recognize that there are certain aspects of a technique that you might need help with, being willing to do that is so important. Being willing to continue to learn is everything.
Passionistas: What does the phrase Power of Passionistas mean to you?
Laraine: Passion drives everything we do. The wish to, uh, achieve, the wish to evolve. Um, so, you know, I think helping others to recognize the process of achievement and the struggle of achievement is a really great endeavor.
Tuesday Sep 20, 2022
Lindsay Gordon on Her New Book ”Right for You”
Tuesday Sep 20, 2022
Tuesday Sep 20, 2022
Lindsay Gordon is an award-winning career coach, author and speaker on a mission to help people stop doing what they think is "right" in their career and start doing what's right for them. Through her work, she assists leaders in making clear and confident decisions so they can move forward in their careers (and lives) with purpose. Lindsay loves baking complicated pastries, barbershop singing, and applying her engineering brain to helping people be DECIDED.
Learn More about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington founders of The Passionistas Project. And today we're talking with fabulous Lindsay Gordon. Lindsay's an award winning career coach, author, and speaker on a mission to help people stop doing what they think is right in their career and start doing what's right for them. Through her work, she assists leaders in making clear and confident decisions so they can move forward in their careers and lives with purpose.
Lindsay loves baking complicated pastries, barbershop singing, and applying her engineering brain to helping people be decided. So please welcome Lindsay.
Lindsay: Thank you for having me. It is always a pleasure to chat with you too. So I'm just happy to be here.
Passionistas: We feel the same way about you? I remember the baking, but I, I vaguely remember the barbershop singing. Was that something you started doing in college?
Lindsay: I, it was actually way later than that. So I did musical theater growing up through high school. I mostly chose to do dance in college, but I think it was about. Gosh. I don't know if pandemic time, I feel like it was maybe five or six years ago that I was like, I wanna get back into singing. And I discovered barbershop singing and was like, where have you been? My vocal?
Passionistas: That's so cool. And what vocal range?
Lindsay: I am a baritone. So excellent. It, it seems very fitting based on my engineering background. Yeah. Cause I feel like all the baritone are like the accountants, the lawyers, the engineers, because it's such a, it's like the leftover note in the chord. That just sounds so bad if you sing it by itself.
Passionistas: That is awesome. And is your quartet all women or is it men and women?
Lindsay: It was all women. Yeah. So that was cool.
Passionistas: That's cool. And, um, and baking is something you, you would kind of consider doing it professionally and then realize, I don't think so. Right. And that's part of your whole journey that I found fascinating. Can you talk about?
Lindsay: So the title of the book is basically everything I do in my work "Right for You". So this launched last night, I still can't believe that I'm being introduced as an author, but, you know, we'll let it sink in and. Yeah. I think everything I do in my work is to help people make choices that actually feel good to them.
And oftentimes one of those questions is, do I want to do this thing as a job? Or do I want to do this thing as a hobby? And for me, I love. Baking. And I love complicated baking. I take professional baking classes for fun, but I kind of took myself through my own framework in this book. um, how would this engage the things that are most important to me. And I found that if I were doing it as a full-time thing, it actually, wasn't going to be the things that I really need to thrive in a job. So I got to say, this is my hobby and I love it. And I actually don't need to do it at this moment in my life as a career.
Passionistas: That's so cool. And we say that to people all the time, you know, it sounds so easy to say to people like, follow your passions? Right. Um, but we're like, yeah, but you don't have to do that for a job. Mm-hmm it could just mean like, have a great hobby that you like to do on the weekends or. You know, and your passions can change.
Lindsay: Yes.
Passionistas: You all the time. You don't have to decide what you wanna do when you're 18 and do that for the rest of your life.
Lindsay: Boring. Would that be…
Passionistas: no way? No way. So the people who don't know you, and, and haven't heard our episode of the podcast with you talk a little bit. Your original career and, and your professional journey that led you to become a career coach?
Lindsay: Yeah, I am on my third career so far, and I like to say that I have fallen into all of them as we, as we do with career transitions. Right. No plan over here. But I started my working life as an engineer. And that's actually why I call myself a career coach for analytically minded people, because this engineering background is quite unusual, did engineering for a little bit.
I was working in recycled water in Australia. Then I completely fell into technical support at Google and discovered that I am a human who love. Customer service. I love it. I love it. I love it. So that is a weird, delightful fact about me. and then as I was doing technical support, I. Was doing onboarding and training and all of our new hires were so stressed about their career.
And they were like, how do I talk to my manager? And what if I get stuck on this support team for forever? So I accidentally was having all these conversations about career. And, you know, people said you would be a coach. I didn't know what that meant. So I went and experimented and, and ended up doing a year and a half long program.
And then people started popping up and saying, are you taking clients? We have people to refer to you. So I ran the business on the side for a little bit, took it full time in 2016. And here we are six years later.
Passionistas: Amazing. So talk about your approach to working with your clients now.
Lindsay: Yeah. That's so much fun. I get to bring my engineering brain to a career. And what we do is we create a tailored framework of what matters to you in a couple different areas. So that you basically have a cheat sheet to say, okay, these are the things that are important to me. How does that relate to any opportunities that come my direction?
So the framework is in the book and it has four pieces. So first we look at values. What is important to you in life? And how does career fit into that? Next, we look at your fulfillment in different areas of your career. So things like results, relationships, career development, creative self-expression so that we can start to articulate what are the actual areas that I need for fulfillment.
Then we move into strengths and what I find with my clients, um, the, the strengths chapter starts with a client who said, Why did it take me until my forties to know what my strengths were and I think often, you know, people have that experience of nobody really teaches us how to discover that. We'll get you clear on strengths, the contribution you wanna make.
And then the fourth part of the framework is about environment. So what are the working conditions that you need in order to thrive? And then you've got this framework of, okay, this is me and who I am and what I need out of a career. And I'm gonna say yeses in this direction.
Passionistas: That's so cool. And one of the things I love about you. Well, I think you said like 50% of the people that you work with actually stay yeah. In their current job. You're not like encouraging everybody to just kind of like go up and try something new. You're helping them decide whether they are actually in the right place for them, which I think is really interesting.
Lindsay: Yeah. It, it has been such a fascinating finding over the six years because I mean, I like to honor. People's risk averseness because I think sometimes we say, you know, I'm risk averse with this like negative connotation because we get these messages of like, oh, well you should be taking these big leaps and just quit and do your passion.
But for most people that is not a. Thing that they really wanna be doing. It disrupts your stability. You know, if you are providing for a family or care taking for parents or whatever it is, quitting is not going to be the right thing for you necessarily. So that's always been kind of the way that I work with people, but I, yeah, I like to joke that I'm running a employee retention program because so many people come to me convinced that they need to quit.
What I find is that when you don't know what you're looking for and what's right for you, quitting is really the only option that you can see. So I help people get clear about what is actually right for them. Then they get to step back and say, oh, okay. I, I might actually choose this job. Even if it's not perfect, even if I don't choose it for the long term, but I know why it is right for me in this moment.
And yeah, as you said, over 50% of my clients do not end up quitting. So I feel like people have more chance of quitting if they don't work with me.
Passionistas: I also think people have this. Fantasy that the next thing is gonna be perfect and devoid of any issues. It's like every job has its pluses and minuses. Yeah. And. Is what you're going. Like, why are you going to where you're going and what you gonna find there. Yeah. So I think it's really great that you have them look at. Yeah. And it's sort of re reframing how you think about your current situation. Right?
Lindsay: Right cause it's always trade-offs. Right. And so if you can articulate, these are the things that are in alignment or out of alignment here and I either choose that or I don't choose that. And if I'm choosing to make a move, these are the trade-offs. I will be accepting over here. I am choosing it for these reasons. And I know that these reasons might not be the perfect alignment. So I think there's just so much calmness when we know why we are making the choice we are making.
Passionistas: Yeah. Agree. Yeah. So what's the first step somebody should take. If they're thinking about a career change?
Lindsay: Yeah, the first step I always love to have people start with is an unusual one. So it is to identify all of the pressure that you feel about your career, because if we don't identify it, then it is just long for the ride and it might even be motivating.
Your desire to make a change. So you might have family telling you that you need to do a particular thing. You may feel a lot of pressures from society of what work should mean to you or, um, where your passion and purpose should come from. And so if we can get really clear about that, sometimes even from that moment, people are like, wow, somebody else wants something different for me.
But actually for me, this might be right. I remember a phone call I had with somebody many years ago, who had no intention of working with me. He was actually very satisfied in his job, but he did a phone call with me to get people in his life, off his back, because they were telling him like, you should have a job.
That's more, this, that, and the other. And you need to go talk to a career coach to, to figure out how to make that change. And he was just like, yep. I'm actually quite happy. I know why I'm choosing it for me. Um, so thanks for this conversation, but I'm good. So I, I think really looking at why are you making that choice? Is it a true desire from you? If so, awesome. But if it's coming from somebody else, let's like set that aside so that you can be really happy where you are .
Passionistas: Is there a success story from people you've worked with that stands out to you as one of your?
Lindsay: I think the one that stands out to me at the moment is the courage it takes to not do the traditional path. So I worked with a woman who is a VP of finance at a large multinational company. And she came to me saying, You know, for a VP of finance, the next logical step is CFO, but I actually don't think I want CFO and I'm getting all this feedback and pressure and noise that well.
You should want CFO and how do we get you to CFO? And you're on the CFO track. And so throughout working together, she was able to really solidify that insight that she had in the beginning, that she was pretty sure was true, but felt a little shaky. So she really solidified that. And just seeing the courage of somebody say, you know what, I'm not.
Choose the thing that everybody thinks is the logical next step for me, she ended up staying at the company and moving to a different part of the organization and doing something she loves now. But that takes a lot of courage. And I have story after story, after story, after story, after story of that kind of courage in the book.
And, you know, really that's, what I wanted to do is share the stories of what does it really look like when people choose to do what's right for them. Yeah.
Passionistas: So tell us about writing the book. Tell us about the process, why you started it, how it went
Lindsay: Oh my gosh. This has been a wild process. And thank you for that question. I'm so excited to share, cuz I, I want more people to know that it is possible to write a book. And you can, you know, I chose to self-publish and that's been a fun adventure, but I think the more voices that we get to hear from the better. So for me, I chose to work with a program called the inspirational book writers, and they're actually based out of Australia and challenge.
This is not gonna work for everybody. I, I like to, you know, not glamorize anything about running a business or writing a book. Their challenge is to write your book in a week. And that felt really fun for me because. I had a business coach say, I think, I think you need to write your book this year. I think it's time for that.
And I said, really, are you sure? Like already, no, no. That's far in the future. So I had to be challenged and then sit with it. But once I was on board, it's really fun for me to set an ambitious challenge and what my business coach has said was. Listen, you've been writing this book in your head for the last six years, right?
Like I know you, you have your framework, you say similar things to clients. You've been writing blog posts for six years. And so I really got the courage to say like, okay, if, if I believe that it's all in here and it's also been written down and at some other places, how long is it gonna take me to put it all together?
And so I ended up doing that process in a week. And then I decided that I wanted to do the, the fast track publishing in three months. And so I think my coach challenged me on February 22nd of this year to write a book and book is now in my hands in physical copy as of yesterday, September 5th. So that's incredible.
Passionistas: That's amazing. My new hero and. And you did the, the doodles, right?
Lindsay: I did. Can you show some of the doodle? I love the doodles. So here's, here's the cover doodle and I'll show you one of my favorite ones and I don't consider myself an artist,
Passionistas: But, but they're so cute. They totally express. Like they're so perfect. Blown the way back. Yeah.
Lindsay: I, you know, I want the, the joy and the levity and the not taking myself too seriously. And the, we are not about perfection around here. Here's one of my favorites. Um, there's a lot of them are also like really sad and, you know, having a challenging time. So some of them make me feel a little bit sad. This is one of the guys, like so much pressure. So yes.
Passionistas: But I love that cuz it is such a, like, It feels at the end of the world sometimes mm-hmm it does when you're making that kind of decision. It it's just so stressful. Mm-hmm the fact that you can add levity to it
Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. It can be super lonely, super isolating, you know, why is this only happening to me? And so I like to balance, you know, really just honoring how. Much it sucks, honestly, to be unhappy in your job. I have been there. And so I, I want to give a lot of love and support for that. And I want people to know that we actually do get to have fun in this process and that we get to add levity and we get to add grace. And then at some point, people are, you know, fired up about. Now that I know my strengths and I have this framework, you know, I gotta get out there and be the contribution that I wanna be in my job or in my life. So I, I feel like the doodles kind of ease the way to the fun .
Passionistas: Oh, great. Did, did you find that during COVID things got heightened with people wanting to make a shift and how did that impact?
Lindsay: Yeah, it's been interesting. Cause I think there's been ebbs and flows that I, you know, couldn't have seen coming in the very beginning. I think there was a very clarifying moment of we only have one life and I need to think about, is this the contribution that I want to be is this job where I want to spend. However many hours of my life I am spending. And so there was just a very clear, like, I want to know more about my own contribution and where I wanna be.
So that was one of the phases. We've also gone through phases where, you know, it's been really rough and people are saying, you know what? I'm just going to stick it out where I am, do the best that I can take care of the family and manage my mental health. And a change is not right for me at the moment.
And then more recently I've had many leaders come to me saying I'm being asked to go back into the workplace X days a week, and that might not actually be right for me. Anymore. Um, I've found a lot of flexibility. I'm able to pick up my kids. Um, it really supports my health. So I think that's kind of the phase that we're in, of going back to the office really is not the right thing for some people and for others. They're excited about that. So that's been an interesting thing that I've seen.
Passionistas: Yeah. That's amazing. It's been such a crazy time for all of us.
Lindsay: Oh my goodness. Yeah. Oh my goodness.
Passionistas: But there's the word? Joy. Which is your watchful. Yeah. So why tell us about that.
Lindsay: Joy? Joy's just so important to me. I feel like it's one of my values. The other word that that occurs to me is delight. And I think that actually is what ties in the customer service. You know, I think of, of companies like Ritz, Carlton, and Zappos who are trying to really create delight in their. People and in the world and in their, in the human interactions and something about that.
I think also because it's such a hard time and career, you know, I do wanna bring the delight, the joy, and part of that, that was really edgy for me. So I like to say, if you think I just wrote this book for everyone else, you'd be wrong because I also get really challenged by. How I feel I am supposed to be as a business owner.
And especially because I work with senior leaders, I'm like, do I need to be more professional? And you know, do I, I almost didn't have a doodle on the cover until my community was like, where's, where's the doodle love you. But like, we need the fun. That is part of who you are. And so for my launch party, that was last night, I basically dialed up the joy and delight, like in the realm of business as far up as I could go.
Um, the, the one liner is that I, I, I modeled the launch party after like a PBS inspired pledge drive and we had people calling in to pledge to do what was right for them in their career. and I would change ball gowns every time we got 50 pledges, because I love dress up. I own a lot of ball gowns. That's like one of the things that's really fun for me.
And so I got to experience, you know, bringing the. Full delight of me into the business realm, which actually felt very vulnerable and needed a lot of courage. And, you know, had a, had some tears in the process, even though I know I wanted to do it, it was actually quite challenging for me. So I, I just love delight.
Passionistas: So how many gowns did you get to put on last night?
Lindsay: We got to 13.
Passionistas: Oh God. you have that many gowns?
Lindsay: I might have more than that, so.
Passionistas: Well, if we do the Emmys again, next year, we know where to go.
Lindsay: Oh my gosh. Yes.
Passionistas: But what I need to know more about this. Why do you have so many. Why do we not have so many question?
Lindsay: I think I was telling my friend the other day, for some reason. You know how sometimes you see an outfit and you're, and you say, when would I ever have the chance to wear this? And then you don't buy it. Mm-hmm, there's something that is missing in like the synapses of my brain with that message. So I, and most of my dresses are, you know, From second hand stores from thrift stores, um, from Ross dress for less.
Like, I just, I love them. And whenever I see a dress to me, it's just like, oh my gosh, like this wants to be on a stage somewhere. This wants to be in a photo shoot. Like of course I would. Own this dress and then I will find the opportunity to wear them. So I think it's, it, it kind of goes back to my musical theater background.
I love dressing up. I love photo shoots. There's something so playful about being a character. And I like to call myself an introverted ham because I do. I do feel I'm introverted. I need a lot of alone time for recharging but put me on a stage and I am a ham. So I think the dresses really support the hamminess.
Passionistas: Well costumes. I love it. I love that. And you're always ready for Halloween worst case. Yeah, go was a bachelor.
Lindsay: And if anyone, yeah. If anyone needs like a, a professional bridesmaid or like a black tie wedding attendee, I am ready at any moment.
Passionistas: the perfect extra. That's great. That is awesome. That's so awesome. Um, you know, one of the things that you talk about is that managers and business owners should be helping the employee kind of find their place in the organization. Right. So talk about that. The people who are listening, who are on the other side of it and they have employees and they wanna help them settle in or be in the right spot.
Lindsay: Yeah. I think managers are sometimes really trying to help people get into the right spot. So I want to acknowledge the managers that are really like, Hey, I can tell that you're not quite in the right spot or you're not satisfied. How can we help? Where can we put you? What do you want? And from my experience, what I see on the employee side is that people actually get very. Embarrassed and ashamed that they don't know the answer to that question.
And so it goes into the spiral of like, oh my gosh, my manager's even trying to support me. I don't know where I wanna be. Why can't I answer this question? So basically my hope is that this is a resource that a manager can say, look, I definitely wanna get you into the right place and make sure you're feeling fulfilled.
Here's the framework. Read this book, and then we can have the best conversation about the contribution that you want to make, and what's gonna enable you to thrive so that everybody wins. So I really, the, the hope for this book is that I am enabling conversations between employees and employers to have actual conversations about.
Where people fit in. And also if you discover it is not the right fit for somebody to be in your company, that's actually lose, lose for everyone. So can we have more clear and open conversations about. I realize that this might not be the right spot for me. Let's, you know, get me to the next spot. And then the, the company gets to put a person in who's really excited to be there.
So I think it's pretty edgy to be having those conversations, but I really want to connect with companies who believe that it is in their best interest and they actually want to support their employees to be in the right place for them.
Passionistas: Excellent. That's amazing. So where can people get the book?
Lindsay: Yes. So it is on Amazon and there is ebook. There is paperback. There is hard cover. If that is for you, you can go for, to write for you book. Dot com and that will take you directly to the Amazon link. And if you are seeing this now, you might actually be able to still sneak in and get the ebook for 99 cents. It is a launch price sale, and, um, Amazon is gonna be updating that soon. So if it hasn't updated, we don't know how long it takes. So jump in and get a copy. Get copies for your friends, anyone who is like really struggling in their career, anyone who is complaining to you, um, if you wanna have different conversations at the Thanksgiving table about what actually is right for you rather than, you know yep. I'm still unhappy in my job.
Passionistas: Um, and then make great holiday gifts. Not too early holiday gifts. Yes.
Lindsay: Yes. Um, and then if you wanna learn more about my work, my website is ALifeOfOptions.com.
Passionistas: So at some point, do you think you'll take another week off and write another book?
Lindsay: I have already been asked about my future books. And apparently this is something that sometimes happens. Like once you write the first book, then you're free to think about like what could come next. Interestingly, I have been asked to write my next book on adult female friendship. and how, like my viewpoint and I have frameworks for everything again, engineer.
So I have a, an interesting kind of like framework and thoughts about friendship and it kind of fits in the right for you. Right. It's like, what is right for you in career? Okay. We've written the book on that now. Maybe it's like, what is right for you in friendship and how do you build friendships that really feel fulfilling based on what you know about yourself. So stay tuned. That could be a fun.
Passionistas: Love that love that idea. Mm-hmm excellent. Wow. That sounds great. All right. Well, so anything else that you wanna talk about that we, any other fun hobbies? I mean, I'm, I'm baking with you. I'm going and buying ball gowns.
Lindsay: Yep. Definitely do the baking. Do the ball gowns. Yeah. Whenever you see something next and you're like, when would I have the opportunity to wear that? Just think of me. Get the outfit, whatever it is, and then create your own opportunity to wear it. Um, I think the, the only thing I would say is just to have a lot of kindness and grace for yourself, wherever you are in your career, know that there is so much pressure out there. It is hard to do what's right for you. And also there are a lot of systemic barriers that can get in the way of that. So, you know, racism, sexism, ageism, ableism. So we talk about that in the book and how to find your agency, but if you can give yourself more kindness and compassion, that is my hope and my gift for you.
Passionistas: You're the best. Excellent. So glad we did this.
Lindsay: So nice to see you again so much fun. Thank you so much. You two are fantastic. And I just wanna acknowledge you for all of the, the joy and passion and love that you are putting in the world. So thank you for being you.
Passionistas: Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. Really do. And uh, hopefully we'll see you in person soon. Yes, yes. And, um, we're gonna post the winners of the tickets in the chat so everybody can check there. And, thank you so much, Lindsay. We really appreciate you being here. Everybody go by Lindsay's book right now, before you miss the special.
Lindsay: Get it quick.
Passionistas: Thank you. Good night everyone. Thank you so much.
Tuesday Sep 06, 2022
Kelly Mosser Helps Women Business Owners Explode Their Impact and Income
Tuesday Sep 06, 2022
Tuesday Sep 06, 2022
Kelly Mosser is an Aligned Success Coach and Consultant based in New York City. She supports big-hearted entrepreneurs in optimizing their businesses and doing their inner work so they can explode their impact and income while staying in radical energetic alignment. Kelly is also the host of the Top 10 podcast: “The Aligned Success Show.”
Learn more about Kelly.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
Full Transcript
The Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Kelly Mosser, an aligned success coach and consultant based in New York city who supports big hearted entrepreneurs in optimizing their businesses and doing their inner work so they can explode their impact and income while staying in-radical, energetic, alignment. Kelly is the host of the top 10 podcast, The Aligned Success Show. So please welcome to the show, Kelly Mosser.
Kelly: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored to be here. You two are just both so inspiring and I'm just already lit up talking to you. So, thank you.
Passionistas: Kelly, what's the one thing that you're most passionate about?
Kelly: I am the most passionate about helping people do the inner work. Like you mentioned in my bio just now that I think is the key to so many things. And I think it's something that we aren't taught growing up. And I think a lot of us kind of realize it a little bit later on in life and if we had known 10 years, 20 years earlier, not to say things would turn out differently, but maybe we would've had a few fewer hiccups along the way.
Maybe we would've had the opportunity to make decisions that were more in alignment with who we truly are and who we truly wanna be. I think there's just so much pressure from the outside and from our parents and our friends and the people we went to high school with and society, TV, magazines, whatever Instagram now. It's wild and I think that there's a real loss of intimacy with self, and that's really what I'm so passionate about doing, cuz I think that really is the foundational building block that everything else gets built on top of. And so that's what I'm the most passionate about in the whole world.
Passionistas: So speaking of parents and friends and high school and all that stuff, what was your childhood like? And were you already building these kind of blocks when you were growing up?
Kelly: That's a really great question. My childhood was very unique. My father tragically was murdered. Sorry for, trigger warning, was murdered when I was 16 months old in my family home with my whole family home. And that obviously is a really formative experience to have as a young kid.
So I actually grew up with a lot of grief around. I grew up with people who were obviously very, you know, very sad, very angry, still, very loving and I'm so in awe by every single member of my family, but there was a lot of grief around and there was a lot of fear because if this can happen in our home, what's gonna happen outside.
So I was a very fearful child and I actually didn't know, but I grew. Basically from 16 months old, when that event happened until I was about 21, I had PTSD and I did not know it. So I was operating with a very dysregulated, nervous system, but I adapted to it because it was, it was kind of like, does a fish even realize there's swimming in water?
It's just, it's all, you know, kind of thing. I didn't realize there was a more optimal way for me to be living. I didn't realize that other people weren't terrified of everything. I didn't realize that other people weren't anxious 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So that, was obviously a huge event in my life that required years and years of healing from, and it still is really fresh and raw sometimes.
But that I would say was the catalyst for understanding how my brain works. Because when I got diagnosed with PTSD, I obviously didn't wanna live in a state of over stimulated, over tax nervous system forever. So I said, I have to figure. How to heal and I didn't choose what happened to my family, but what happens next is up to me.
So that's kind of my, my healing story. I fell in love with meditation through my PTSD diagnosis, because I was told that that was something that could help me. And it was really not helpful for a long time. It was, it actually made things, kind of quite a bit worse. And I think that is why people start and stop a lot with meditation.
We start when we feel okay. And then as soon as things start to bubble up that feel sticky and icky, we say, you know what, I'm just gonna put this away and I'm gonna turn on Netflix instead because that's less icky to sit with. It's much more comfortable to sit and watch “Bridgerton” than it is to sit with trauma of 20 years.
So that's what led me to meditation, which led me to all of, kind of the inner work that I do now. And the coaching that I do now is really based on intimacy with self nervous system regulation, inner peace. So that's kind of how, how all of this came to be. I do want people to know that that it's possible.
Like it's not going to be an easy journey, no matter. Happens to you. And I'm, I'm very much against this idea of like comparing traumas. I think every, every traumatic event is awful. And I think that there is, there's always a step forward for you. There's always, a next step you can take, there's always support available to you.
So that is a big part of my message as well. Like you can make it through anything, even though I wish you didn't have to I wish that nobody ever had to go through, you know, those terrible, challenging things, but we do it's life. It's kind of just the nature of what happens here on this planet earth. But yeah, we can always move forward.
Passionistas: Was there an event that made you finally decide to figure out how to, how to move past this?
Kelly: Definitely. So I grew up in suburban New Jersey, which is, you know, a relatively quiet place. All my siblings were much older, so I had a lot of quiet time, you know, growing up and I liked being alone. I was, I'm a little bit of an introvert, so I always felt like I had my space.
And then I moved to New York city after college. And I started working in the corporate world in a very sort of demanding stressful. Maybe a little bit toxic environment. And I was just, I, my anxiety was through the roof. It was just one day I felt like I can't even function, I'm just barely getting through the day.
I'm just hanging on by a thread and I have to do something about this because New York city, as it is, is overwhelming the noises that people I'm also very sensitive to energies and sounds like, I think that's all just a product of having such a heightened nervous system my whole life. That I felt very much like a shell of a human being, living in New York, working in this job.
And I realized that I was not gonna do very well if this is the life that I continued to live. So that really was the turning point for me.
Passionistas: You took a little detour. You said you were in the corporate world, but you went to Georgetown to study and got a bachelor's degree in foreign service. So tell us about that choice and why you wanted to do that and why eventually you didn't.
Kelly: Oh, another great question. Wow. You, you all just understand all my, all my juicies questions. I did go to Georgetown. I was really in love with travel and places and people and the world. And so I wanted to study foreign service because I wanted to be a journalist. I thought that was going to be, I'm a huge fan of writing.
I love communication and so that felt like the thing that I wanted to do. And then I actually got an internship in a newsroom my senior year and I was like, what am I thinking? This is the worst place for someone with a heightened, nervous system or the history of PTSD. It's like every day in here is another traumatic event.
So that didn't work out. But I'm one of those people who I get to say, I really just loved everything that I learned in college. It was amazing and so much fun. So even though my degree doesn't apply to anything that I do now, or really have ever done, except that we did have to learn an entire map of the entire world countries, cities, rivers, lakes, currencies.
So that feels like some, some interesting once in a while, I'll have a good jeopardy moment. But other than that, it's a little bit useless, but I had so much fun learning and it, it showed me that, and now I'm continuing my learning journey in a totally different direction, but it just let me be okay with.
Learning for the sake of loving the subject and loving the topic and not because I had to go on to, so I let myself just let go of the news dream. It was the worst possible thing. I also think it's interesting. It just proves that your brain wants what it knows and I, because all I had known was like, stress and that's what I was so programmed to thrive inside of that, that's I just chose the most stressful thing I could even fathom.
So I'm very glad that I did not choose to pursue that path cuz I don't think I would've. I don't think I would've handled it, but I did get into the business world. I, my first job out of college was for a major retailer working in the buying office and I had a really good time there and just life, you know, it's amazing.
You just never know where you're gonna end up. You just never know. You just can't predict it. So you make the best choice that's available to you at the time and say when the next right choice is available, I guess I'll choose that.
Passionistas: So you went on this personal journey of exploration. How did you decide to make that a business and to help others?
Kelly: It really started as just a passion as my Passionista. It was just a hobby. I was really passionate about helping people who were in kind of similar situations or who were on some sort of healing journey. Um, just supporting them through coaching or whatever it was. And I had. I started to kind of build this just side hustle, air quotes, um, because it was fun.
And I had a pretty demanding job at a startup in New York, in the wellness space. And I really loved that, but there's also sometimes this moment where you're doing something that you love and you say, I think there's something that I would love even a little bit more than what I'm doing right now. And I think it's letting a big part of my journey has been letting myself follow those little nudges, even when things are good. Definitely when things are bad. Definitely. I follow I've learned to follow my nudges when things are bad, but even when things are pretty good, I'm like, I wonder if this could be even just a little bit better.
So I started building my coaching business on the side and then I realized, wait, I actually have this. Working in strategy and operations the whole time I was in my other roles in my other career. And I realized that I also had that really, I had a lot of skills in that area, too. I had a really strong brain for strategy and operations and I thought maybe I could just combine these two things. Wouldn't that be kind of cool. So I didn't actually go full-time in my business until my mom got very sick in 2020. She's totally fine now thank goodness. But I had to quit my job. I had to move in with her full-time and be her full-time caregiver for about six months.
And after that, I was like, well, this is my opportunity to really take a chance on myself and see if I have the chops to do this full-time and create a full-time income and business off of this thing that previously has just been a little side dream. And I'm so glad that I took the chance.
Passionistas: Talk a little bit about how you combine spirit science and strategy to give your clients a 360 degree approach to their healing and success.
Kelly: Hmm. For me, the spiritual work is kind of the foundational work for everything. And I think about spirituality in a very grounded way. For me, it really just is what is your relationship with yourself? Who are you when your fancy job title gets taken away? Who are you when your Gucci bag gets stolen? Whatever it is like, who are you at the core essence of who you are underneath, even your thoughts and your emotions, the ways that you identify in the world, the roles and responsibilities that you have.
Who, what are your values? How do you show up for yourself? How do, what do you think of yourself? So that kind of spiritual element, I think, is so important for anybody. I mean anybody, but especially people who are on a path of entrepreneurship or who are stepping into some sort of leadership role, cuz life's gonna knock you down and you're gonna have not, hopefully not macro failures, but you're gonna have a lot of tiny little failures along the way.
And if you don't know who you are and what you stand for those little things that shouldn't be big, things can turn into really big things. So that's kind of where the spiritual work comes in. The strategy piece. I find that, when I'm coaching people, I find a lot of times that the things that they need help with, they think they need help with mindset.
They think they need help with, you know, resilience and really a lot of reason, a lot of the time, the reason that they're coming up against so many experiences where they need to be resilient, where they need to really connect with themselves is because they're following a strategy. That's not actually aligned for them.
They saw it on Instagram. They bought it in a course and decided, this is my thing. That's this is my ticket to everything I've ever wanted. And when you start with a strategy, that's not actually quite right for you. You need a lot of coaching because it's really hard to get yourself aligned with something that is just not meant for you.
So that's where the strategy piece comes in. I find that people need a lot less. Ongoing coaching and mindset work and resilience work and confidence work. When the strategy that they're following is perfectly tailored to their strengths, their values, their goals. And I don't think that there's any strategy that doesn't work.
I think absolutely any strategy can be successful for you. As long as it's aligned for you. If it's not aligned, could be the best strategy in the world, it's not gonna work. So those are how those two things kind of go together. Alignment is a word I use a lot, you have to feel aligned and alignment is something that you can actually feel.
I'm sure you, we've all had that experience of maybe showing up to a job that we know now wasn't aligned for us, but it's a physical feeling. Your body communicates with you when something's not in alignment. And when something is in alignment feels really good and there's a lot less resistance and things come more easily to you.
So it's my goal to get people on that path. That maybe they don't even realize is possible for them. And then to support them in implementing and executing everything that goes along with that, because of course there will still be little moments of resistance and fear is a big thing that comes up a lot. And knowing that the path that I think people really need to follow is the one that is most aligned for them.
There's still gonna be challenges along the way. I fell in love with the brain, so I studying about the brain to help myself heal from PTSD was so important. It was like, if I'm someone who, if you tell me to meditate, I'm gonna say no, unless you tell me why on a mechanical level, how is this helping me on a biological physiological level?
How is this helping? Then, Now I'm now I'm interested. I have a, I have a lot of Virgo in my chart, so I like need to understand things. Otherwise I can't, I have no interest. So I really got passionate about understanding the brain better and I've taken a few courses now about the brain, um, and I'm going to continue to study neuroscience because I'm just so fascinated by it.
And I think it's a really important piece that a lot of people don't understand, but it's such a valuable to understand why your brain does what it does. Why it gets emotionally triggered or activated when certain things happen and how you can coach yourself through those moments of big fear or big self doubt, I think is just so valuable.
So those are my, my three pillars that I'm obsessed with. And I think in order to really create whatever kind of success you want, whatever aligned success means for you, cuz it's gonna mean something different to every single one of us. Being able to understand yourself on those levels and have a strategy that is totally aligned for you are just kind of non-negotiables. So that's why I cover those three pillar.
Melanie Childers: Hey Passionistas, I'm Melanie Childers, the business coach for feminist entrepreneurs and if you are ready to get off the hustle treadmill and create a sustainable six or seven figure business, head over to Melaniechilders.com, where I've got a free resource on how to have consensual sales conversations that feel amazing for you and your clients, so you can hit the ground running. See you there.
Passionistas: Where Amy and Nancy Harrington. And you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Kelly Mosser, to learn how to work with her and join the tigers eye community, visit KellyMosser.com.
We'd like to take a moment to invite you to the third annual Power of Passionistas summit his September 21st through 23rd, 2020. The three-day virtual event is focused on authentic conversations about diversity, equity and inclusion. This unique gathering of intersectional storytellers and panelists harnesses, the power of our rich community of passionate thought leaders and activists to pose solutions to the problems plaguing women and non-binary people today.
Tickets are on sale at the PassionistasProject.com. Be sure to register before this special discount rate ends. We'd like to thank our sponsors, Melanie Childer's Master Coach, Graceful Revolution, The Ossa Collective, Teas Drops, Aaron's Coffee Corner, Flourishing Over Fifty, Espanola Real Estate Team, Mermaid's Garden, Sarah Fins Coaching, Tara McCann Wellness, Espera Public Affairs and Trizcom Public Relations. Now here's more of our interview with Kelly.
Passionistas: Are there some tips that you have for people that are hearing this and wanna kind of start on this journey that, that are a foundation to get started?
Kelly: Absolutely. I think starting to become aware of how your body feels at different moments throughout your week, even throughout your day. So important. I find that the kind of key dynamic that I ask people to look for. Is, does this make me feel expansive and at ease, or is there some sort of contraction going on here? And if you pay a close enough attention, your body is always giving you those cues. Even if you turn on the TV and there's a show on that, you don't like, there's some part of your body that probably feels constricted or cold or tense.
So just start to pay attention to how your body's feeling moment to moment throughout your day. Uh, an exercise that I love to direct people to is to actually pull up your calendar from last week. So these are now we're working with memories rather than real live real time situations, which can be a little bit easier to tune into the body for.
Go back to last week and go day by day review all of the things that were on your calendar, all of your appointments, fill in how you spent your time after work. What did you do in the morning and go back and actually tune in and notice how your body feels thinking about the memory of that thing. And sometimes it's really helpful to go, oh, I'm thinking about this meeting that I had with this client and my body feels like I would not wanna do this again.
If I had to do it again in an hour, I wouldn't wanna do it. There's a message there for you and then, you know, that's your opportunity to do some journaling on it, dig into it, ask yourself what about this didn't feel so aligned for me and you'll start to learn about, oh, it's because I actually don't really love connecting with people one on one I'd much rather connect in a group. This person, this particular challenge that we were working with, I feel very, I don't really feel confident in actually helping people with that kind of challenge. And it brings up a lot of stuff for me.
When I think about having to do that, I don't think we stop and think a lot about, those small details to even just optimize what we already love doing. And sometimes, you know, people are in jobs that they really don't love doing and their whole week feels like a one giant contraction, one giant constriction. That's a great sign to, you know, start thinking about maybe making a change and even for people who love what they do, 99% of the time, what's feeling contracted that 1% of the time let's figure out what that is. Let's, you know, see if there's an opportunity for you to get even to a place of even greater alignment, even more ease and fulfillment. So those are, that's just a really simple, practical exercise.
And I'm a huge fan of just taking time to sit in silence with yourself every day. It doesn't have to be a fancy meditation. Doesn't have to be a guided meditation. You don't have to empty your mind of thoughts. You just have to sit with yourself with no distractions and see what comes up and that's it. It can just be so simple because I think we are all moving so fast and things come up that we don't fully have the time sometimes to process, or we don't give ourselves the time to process.
And then that just gets stored somewhere. So if you can just give all those things, the opportunity to come up and come out, as often as you can, it's not gonna feel as uncomfortable after a little while it takes a little practice, but the discomfort is good.
Passionistas: So we were introduced to you at a recent MobCon mini event from Mob Nation and you gave an amazing speech about the history of money and how it relates to your self-worth. And we just thought that that was such a great speech and really mind opening. So could you just like give us a little mini condensed version of that and tell us just the basic philosophy behind what you were saying there.
Kelly: Absolutely. So I struggled a lot with this concept of money. When I was starting my own business, I always felt like I was charging too much, even when I was charging $20 for a session, which that was the case at one point. It always felt like money was this very charged conversation and I realized that it's because my self-worth was so deeply connected to my concept, my understanding of money. So I decided to look into the history of money. I was like, why does this thing have such a hold over me? I'm sure it has a hold over other people too, I'm sure, you know, money is the driver of so many decisions that we make. And as I was researching the history of money, it kind of hit me that money is a manmade invention. It's a human construct. Some guy decided, you know what I think we need some sort of money system because the barter system is no longer working at scale, so we need some kind of money system. And for me to just realize that money is a manmade invention and it's not, I think sometimes we, especially if you are familiar with spiritual conversations about money or if you're in sort of tapped into the spiritual community on social media.
There's a lot of conversation around money in a way that almost makes it sound like money is like love from the divine or money is confirmation that you are a good person or that you're doing something right. Which is so different to, I know how a lot of older kind of religious dogma talks about money in the complete opposite way.
So it's kind of like we're ping, ponging back and forth between money is either the worst thing in the world, or it's the best thing in the world. And, but either way, it's directly tied to this, your morality to who you are as a person. And that just wasn't working for me, so to be able to kind of step out of that conversation and realize that money is just a man-made construct that's moving through a man-made system and humans are imperfect. Humans are imperfect. How could I not be worthy of something that has no inherent value of its own, money does not have in any inherent value. It's only valuable because as a collective, maybe it's not green is valuable and therefore I'm going to put stock in it and work in exchange for it and buy things with it.
But money like the actual paper. Has no inherent value. And we used to humans used to trade seashells and cattle and tobacco as commodities, like in exchange of money. And I was just thinking to myself, would I feel this stressed out about money? If it was cattle that we were talking about? No, I wouldn't.
So why do I allow it to be such a stressful thing for me now? So, kind of just stepping out of that deep enmesh between my self-worth and money. And just saying money is just a system. It's just a thing that exists made by humans perpetuated by humans. It could not exist tomorrow, but we'd all still be here.
How could my self-worth be wrapped up in something like that? And it allowed me to just have a much more kind of experimental relationship with money. It allowed me to really drain the emotion out of my experience out of my relationship with money. And then I felt much more comfortable with it. I just, you know, I decided that my self-worth is constant.
No matter how much money I make one month to the next, as entrepreneurs, we're like so focused on monthly revenue and it it's so exhausting and I just don't think that's how it needs to be. So if anyone is listening to this and they're, I'd invite you to think about how emotional is your relationship to money.
If it is an emotional thing for you, can you think of it more as just this manmade thing that was invented out of necessity? Your self-worth has nothing to do with it, if money stopped existing tomorrow, you would still be infinitely worthy because you're a human being. How could you not be worthy of something that has again, no inherent value of its own.
It's just green paper floating around. So hopefully that, you know, can help somebody who has an emotionally charged relationship with money to just, just experiment thinking about it that way and see if it works for you. If it doesn't by all means, let it go. But it really helped me, especially as someone who's like, this is my job now to make my own money.
I don't get a, a paycheck from an employer anymore. So yeah, it's. Been a really interesting reframe for me.
Passionistas: So what advice would you have for a woman who like you was trying to figure out how to price their product or service and they just don't know how to do it.
Kelly: I think that people put a lot of stock into getting it right the first time. There's a lot of pride around, I want to put something out there and I want it to sell the first time, the way I want it to. And what I would recommend is just, you have to remember that the laws of supply and demand are real. And while you are worth your value as a human being is infinite, what you might be offering to someone is actually subject to the laws of supply and demand.
So until you know what the demand for your, good or service is you don't really know how to price it. And I, someone just, someone said this to me once when I was agonizing over, I think it was a, like some kind of coaching package that I was offering. I was like, should it be this number or this number? And they were like, it's a hundred dollars different.
How do you, you don't know? You just have to try one. And I was like, oh, I just have to try one and see if this is the price that resonates with the person that I, want to work with who I can help, but I think we, we make it about us. We make our prices about us and we say, we talk about knowing our worth, your worth is infinite.
There it is not subject to laws of supply and demand. Your there's no price you could put on anything that you do that would accurately encompass how worthy you are. But I think when we are enmeshed with our pricing and our self-worth and know your worth, and what's my. all of that becomes very murky and muddy.
So my advice is find a price that seems to be appropriate. Make sure it feels good in your body when you're talking about it. It takes a little practice sometimes to get used to saying, this is what my price is, but just practice. It just takes practice and then bring it to the marketplace. Just the same way that any company like Coca-Cola brings a new product to the marketplace.
They don't know how it's gonna sell. You have to see, you have to experiment. A big, big thing that I stress with my clients is to have a mindset of experimentation. I always like to say, be the chief scientist, treat your business like a science experiment and not a soap opera, because if you treat it like a soap opera, every little decision that you make is going to have an impact on your self-worth and it's gonna bring you down.
So how can you just be more of like an inventor, like a scientist who just says, I'm gonna try this. And I'm really curious to see what happens here. That's all you can do. And if you know, you sell out, then maybe your price is too low. If you don't sell any, maybe your price is a little too high. Again, it has nothing to do with you.
It has to do with how much, how well people know you, how well you're communicating the value of what you do. There's so many different layers that go into it that I just hate to see people get so caught up in pricing when I would love to. And I think it makes them slow down and take too much time and they think too much about it.
And it leads to a lot of self-doubt where my advice is, just get out there with a price and see what happens. And if it's not the right price, you can change it. That's the beauty of having your own business. it's, it's it really is so much more is within your control than you realize.
Passionistas: So how can people work with you?
Kelly: A few different ways. So I do offer that kind of deep dive strategy consulting for people who are like, I, my business just feels like a mess and I just want it to feel easier and simpler. So I do offer that kind of strategy consulting service for service based businesses. I do have someone on my team who is a retail expert, so she supports retail businesses and product-based businesses with their strategy.
And then I also offer kind of ongoing support from a coaching perspective. So that’s implementing your strategy. That's what to do when you come up against resistance. That's what to do when an unexpected curve ball gets thrown your way. So there is kind of that those two different pieces and lots of people do choose just one or the other.
And a lot of people do choose both. I also have an amazing free membership that used to not be free. And it is just as of last month free and I'm so happy to offer it for free called my tigers eye community, which is like the ultimate one stop shop for inner work. So it's guided meditations, it's amazing live and on-demand workshops led by experts, not just me daily journal prompts.
It's, it's just a really good place to start if you're like, I'm curious about inner work, but it feels overwhelming and YouTube is so scary and I'm not gonna spend time searching for things on there. It's a totally free resource, no strings attached free forever.
Passionistas: Speaking of doing multiple things, what inspired you to start your podcast?
Kelly: I felt very, so I've been a big Instagram girl for the last four years or so. And I started to feel very, like, not so great on Instagram sometimes. Like I could, I only had people's attention for like five seconds and I couldn't fully express what I wanted to say. I'm verbose, as you can tell from this chat, I won't learn from this conversation.
I don't shut up. And I feel like I had more to say, and I wanted to provide a deeper level of value for people without them having to pay me anything. Because I feel like Instagram is just a little bit, I don't know. It's just like, it's like the, the bargain version. It's just a little bit cheap sometimes you can only get so much across, but I think there's something so magical, magical about being with people when they're on their dog walks and like being with people when they're commuting to pick up their kids.
Like that is so exciting to me and I think that you can just create a better relationship with [00:31:00] people and you can give them more. And so that was why I'm so excited about the podcast world. And I, I love it so far. It feels so fun.
Passionistas: So describe your show for people.
Kelly: Sure. So my show is called the aligned success show and it is a show that helps entrepreneurs master the magical alchemy between spirituality, neuroscience, and strategy.
So we talk about all those different things. Sometimes we talk about all three in one episode, sometimes we go, this episode's really focused on the spiritual. This episode's really focused on the brain. This episode is really focused on strategy and I've had a lot of people tell me that I'm not an entrepreneur, but I really like this podcast anyway.
So the strategy piece, is definitely more general. I would say that it applies to more people than just entrepreneurs. There's a lot of good value in there about just finding more alignment in your life, learning how to coach yourself through different kinds of challenges. So, yeah, so it's definitely super valuable for entrepreneurs, but valuable for people who are not entrepreneurs as well.[00:32:00]
Passionistas: What's your dream for women?
Kelly: Oh my gosh. My dream for women is that we all wake up in a world that where we all get to live lives, that we actually chose for ourselves and we didn't choose them because our parents told us we had to, or because our partners think that we should, or that society told us that we needed to. That would be my dream to just live in a world full of women who really had chosen what their life looks like.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Kelly Mosser. To learn how to work with her and join the Tigers Eye Community, vVisit KellyMosser.com.
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Tuesday Jul 26, 2022
Tuesday Jul 26, 2022
Dr. Nicole de Paula has been globally connecting policymakers and researchers for more than a decade to create a public understanding on key issues related to sustainability and public health. As a Planetary Health advocate, she champions the socioeconomic advancement of women through environmental conservation. She is the founder of the Women Leaders for Planetary Health and in 2019, she became the first awardee of the prestigious Klaus Töpfer Sustainability Fellow at the Institute for Advanced Sustainability Studies in Potsdam, Germany. Nicole is the author of the book “Breaking the Silos for Planetary Health: A Roadmap for a Resilient Post-Pandemic World.”
Learn More about Nicole.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas project podcast, where we talk with women who are following their Passionistas to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And today we're talking with Dr. Nicole de Paula, who has been globally connecting policy makers and researchers for more than a decade to create a public understanding on key issues related to sustainability and public.
As a planetary health advocate, she champions the socioeconomic advancement of women through environmental conservation. She's the founder of Women Leaders for Planetary Health and in 2019, she became the first awardee of the prestigious Klaus Töpfer Sustainability Fellow at the Institute for Advanced Sustainability Studies (IASS) in Potsdam, Germany.
Nicole is also the author of the book “Breaking the Silos for Planetary Health - A Roadmap for a Resilient Post-Pandemic World.”
So please welcome to the show Dr. Nicole de Paula.
Nicole: Hi, Nancy and Amy. Thank you for having me.
Passionistas: What's the one thing you're most passionate about?
Nicole: I think recently it's definitely planetary health. Uh, we've been advocating so much and at the beginning, the term was what is planetary health sounded like a horror cop thing. Right? So it was the, it was a term that sounded, it was a bit weird in some language doesn't translate. Well, I think in German, for example, it's, it's, it's hard to translate in Portuguese as well.
I'm from Brazil. So, uh, it was also a bit funny, but definitely is the topic that we should be talking about specifically. Now when we need to recover. Hopefully from this pandemic.
Passionistas: So tell us of what planetary health means and how it relates to what you do for a living.
Nicole: Yeah. So maybe what I do, I'm my background. I tend to say I'm a fake doctor, right? So I'm a, I have a PhD in international relations, so I'm not a magical doctor cause I've been talking a lot with public health experts. It's quite an interesting exercise. And so planetary health, uh, from my perspective is of very interesting narrative of things that decision makers should.
Talking about or acting. So it's basically everything. So the planet is changing, right? We say that if the planet is sick with all the climate change impacts biodiversity loss, pollution, you know, we, we don't know anymore what we have in our foods. So much chemicals there processed food, you know, and crisis.
We used to have a big problem of course, with hunger and. You know, half of the population is obese. So of course we're changing our lifestyles and the way the planet is changing and the way that we are impacting our planet. So that's why we say this anthropogenic impacts we need it's impacting public health.
So the decision normally is what is health at the end of the day, right? Is everything that is inside our bodies and is just this small system. Or we should talk about health. Connected to the health of our planet. So the planetary health is a scientific discipline or, um, not discipline is there is discussion that I think is started as saying as a discipline, but let's say it's an approach, a new area of studies calling that way.
I think many researchers were already discussing sustainability connecting to the, to human health. So again is very simple. It's just trying to connect sustainability to public health policies and on the, on the issue of. scientists are trying to understand how exactly climate change impacts, you know, human health.
We have heat waves that impact, you know, the most vulnerable in cities. Uh, so we're trying to measure that's. So that's not exactly what I do, you know, when people will do modeling and, but in the end, we need to communicate and inform decision makers of this field and say, what do we do about it? And that's the, what I'm passionate about.
How do we get the science and bring it to the people who can take these decision? And it's of course not an easy thing, especially this days, but we keep trying. So you mentioned COVID talk about how the relationship to COVID and planetary health. Like what, how is it affecting the world on the planet?
Yes, COVID is as, um, sometimes mentioned and I notice in a book it's. Of course, it's a very bad thing, but if every crisis brings an opportunity, that's the sad reality. If we need change, we probably learn through love or pain. Right. So it's very hard to change behavior if you don't have a big crisis and COVID is now showing I think stimulating this conversation about, okay, what is exactly connections?
It's, it's just, just a sanitary thing. It's, uh, the disease, but what you're learning now and, and. Trying to communicate. Actually, I think a lot of people have been trying to communicate this before, but the way, for example, deforestation, the way we are transforming our environment, we are, uh, increasing the chances of this contact with new viruses.
So for example, illegal wildlife. Trading, you know, if you're bringing species to different and because the world is so connected in three days, the whole, if you have a new disease in three days, the whole world is contaminated. So the COVID is really showing that we need to connect more. The dots. Between these issues of biodiversity conservation.
You know, this, there is a link with zoonotic diseases. When you have pathogens, frighten animals, jump to humans, we still, we don't have definitive answers about how exactly COVID was created, but six out of 10 new diseases come from animals. You know, so this, this zoonotic disease. So, so we know that we are creating some sort of this possibility of increasing diseases and, and climate change.
For example, Our natural ecosystem. So new mosquitoes there wouldn't be in Europe, for example, because of the climate. Now, if we find, so we have a new ecology of, of these diseases that it's important to understand and study again, we have, uh, researchers doing that. So planetary health brings this conversation and links, uh, this points.
Passionistas: So let's take a step back. You talked about the fact that you're from Brazil. Tell us a bit about growing up there. And when did you first become aware of these issues and what inspired you to pursue this field.
Nicole: Of course, I mean, I think I always wanted to, I remember as a, let's say teenager, the time you need to decide about university, I was between.
Two things. I think I, I love studying. So I think my thing, I love learning. So doesn't matter what it is. I people say, oh, what's your favorite? You know, subject? I liked everything. Uh, at the end I started being better at humanities and others, but I was still at some point. Good, very good in chemistry. Very good in math, some parts of physics.
So I wish I had more talent. I wish I had kept my talents. I found that time would be great for calculating it or model. Days, which I don't feel they're very capable, but I enjoyed, uh, learning and, and, and I enjoyed traveling. So that was a big thing. So I think, you know, if you're uncomfortable in new places.
So for example, from Brazil, I remember going to Portugal at early age and I didn't enjoy so much because it was so similar. To Brazil. And I think nowadays I would think, uh, differently because it's a fantastic city in LIBO, for example, it changed so much, but the traveling part was inspiring. And so I was trying to find things, you know, what is, what can I do that unite all this many disciplines that I enjoy and, and traveling.
So I initially, um, I also was very good at debating, especially my family. If I wanted something I would debate until they were tired. So it was, uh, some people found that of course, very annoying, but they thought would be, I would be a good lawyer. Right. So I thought about it. And in the end I found this brochure, that's saying, oh, international relation.
It was a new course at that point, you know, remember also globalization and all this. So that's something we have a very, of course at the university of Sao Paulo is let's say top university in Brazil, depending on the subject, but is very, uh, important center, but they didn't have international relations when I was applying for it.
So there was another univers. The head leading that in Sao Paulo and from Sao Paulo. And so I joined that and started doing international relations, but at that point, nobody knew what do you do with international relations? Right? It just, and in the first year it was, it was actually the time when the United States.
Was not ready to sign or, you know, was withdrawing from the Coda protocol, which is the whole, the initial agreement, uh, in the whole climate sphere. So as a student in political science, I was like, why, if it's such a good thing for the planet, why we have the biggest power saying that they don't wanna agree with this?
You know, that's, it's good for the plant. So that's how I entered the, the climate diplomacy conversation. So again, I entered the sustainability sphere through the political. Perspective. Right. And then from that on, I was started doing a lot of understanding how countries negotiate about the trees. So it was climate then biodiversity and quickly I could actually move to France.
So my university had an agreement. So I moved to France and then started studying a lot from the perspective of European union, which is another whole in region and negotiations of agreement to have a global position. So all that it's endless and it was fascinating. But I tended to focus on the sustainable stable development aspects.
And, you know, we have in Rio, Brazil also, we are very, it's a very important country for sustainable development. The Amazon has always been on the agenda. We have infinite natural resources, you know, is the mega diverse, uh, countries top.
So Brazil has been very important for this negotiations. And so that's why I started my academic life. And there was no specific moment, right. This, I had an aha moment for other things later, but for that, I just really enjoyed the disciplines.
And, and that's how I think also. We say the planetary health is really about multidisciplinary, you know, whatever we do, we need to unite disciplines. And international relations was always a, let's say a collection of disciplines. You did economics, law, sociology, you know, theology, linguistics things. And you had to make sense of all this.
So I think from the early age, I was maybe comfortable navigating multidisciplinary systems and which today is very useful because, you know, you're kind of comfortable. You're not there to protect a discipline and you're just free to kind of have this dialogue, which is so, so important. So tell us about some of the fellowships that you've done through the years, the international Institute for sustainable development.
Passionistas: What was your work like there?
Nicole: Yeah, so, well, the international for sustainable development is actually the it's more, um, it's a think tank and that's through this organization that I could. Actually be in the practice of sustainability tracking sustainable development in real time, because you are, uh, going to all this at the UN and, and, and trying to understand the country's positions and why.
So it's a lot of work of Intel in the end, the product you would say you would do reports and informing in a very succinct, uh, way what countries are doing. However you need the whole background. So we were, most of the people there were doing their PhDs or at least a master in one of the specific negoti later negotiations.
So it was more, uh, yeah, so we were part of a global team tracking this, but usually also connected to your academic. Research. So this was during my PhD times where I could, I think, you know, I don't know, almost 60 countries and, and it was gave a lot of perspective, you know, from what people think, because one solution, you know, in Europe is not a solution in Africa is on solution in Latin America.
And that's, that's why it's so slow. And that's why it's so difficult because of course we do need global solutions. However, you still need to kind of get the. Contextualized moments of this. So very challenging, but that's what I did there. It was really getting, uh, and track and sustainability in practice at the UN level.
Passionistas: And as we mentioned in our intro in 2019, you became the first awardee of the Klaus Töpfer Sustainability Fellow. So tell us about that period and what, and what that experience was like.
Nicole: So that's a very recent experience and it's, it's one of my favorites because it gave so, um, gave me a lot of freedom to, I think, do follow my passion and do the things that, you know, I use usually say it's it's.
When is a time that you have time and money together, you know, it never either you have time or no, uh, no money or money and no time. So this was, this fellowship is really dedicated for two kind of people do their projects and elevate them. And so I was so proud to, uh, cost software is the former Minnesota environment in Germany.
He was also the head of the United Nations department program before. So it was someone who was, you know, doing politics in Germany. But also went moved to Kenya and was the head of a large organization. And he had to also understand, right. This compromises, how it works. Africa is not the same as Germany.
So, um, and of course it's very influential. Public figure. So I, he, uh, and together a few of, I think Noble Prizes founded, uh, this Institute in, in Potsdam. And it's a very interesting, I think I had a lot of intellectual freedom there and I could develop the book, "Breaking the Silos for Planetary Health," which if you don't have time to sit down and write it's, you know, you never finish.
So I could do that. I could support Brazil in a large planetary health global event together with the Harvard university. And this was a fantastic, uh, really expanding the field of planetary health in Latin America. Because one of the things I try to say is there's no point of having planetary health conversation.
If it's only in Australia, Europe and you know, north America. So I need to bring that to the global south. And I could found the social enterprise, uh, called women leadership, monetary health, and, and this has opened so many. To a lot of my work today. So I really enjoyed that and, and very supportive colleagues and directors, and it was really, really a very fun time in my career. I must, I'm very thankful for that. I think it was, you know, when you got these things at the right time, you really could. I think I used the opportunity and then COVID came and that for me professionally, Was good because I was talking so much about health sustainability, and unfortunately, see, you need a crisis to push these things and it's a sad reality, but from that perspective was a good timing to talk about this.
Passionistas: Talk us through what you do. You connect policy makers and researchers. So what is that process? What's your day like?
Nicole: Well, that's funny. My day has been the most. I don't have a routine I have now. I think it's first two weeks that I'm having more of a routine in my life and I'm almost 40. So I enjoy that.
I think I worked a lot to get a lot of flexibility in my work life. So I have absolutely no routine because every day, and now with the pandemic, it became then a different world. Why we could do so much virtually and things, but it was more about, so I did a lot of work in different countries when. You know, ISD the internet.
When I said I was tracking sustainment about negotiations, every time was in a different country. So I would be in the desert and the next week I would be in the Arctic literally. So you'll have to Pack, you know, for north of Finland and Dubai. So it has been very hectic, but I enjoyed that, but definitely not a common.
Existence, especially for women, as we know, you know, people expect that you have your traditional things and then you have your family life like a traditional way and all that. And I always refused in a way and said, no, that's really exciting to not have these routine. That's not what I want. And during this time, so you, why, if you travel so much, you're also connecting with people around the planet.
So it facilitates so. Your work doing, you know, if you have to gathering intelligence, you have to see what that country's thinking and what the others. So how can I, if I'm writing a paper. Or, or, you know, even my PhD, I had to really, for, for five years you were doing research and, and, and I was about the strategic partnership between Brazil and EU on the specific agreements.
So things are evolving, right? So I need to track that. And so this connection is. First through research because you have to inform and you have to publish and you have to get the knowledge, but then once, once you are working with these organizations, you're actually also transferring that knowledge or trying to, you know, it's not so much of an academic exercise, but if you do, if you're working with think tanks, then you do round tables and you do other events.
And it's more of the networking part, exchanging the word that I like here. Cross pollinating knowledge around disciplines. Institutions. So that's a lot of what I do. And so it's not a clear cut thing, but when you see, you have to yeah. Do your research like political scientist and a lot of interviews.
For example, the method, if you're this participant observant, you know, you are in the process. So not only reading cuz what is published in the end, it's not necessarily what was happening. There's so much in politics that cannot be published. That's why these personal connections are so important because you need trust from these individuals to get the information.
That's how I think, think it's a very important talent. So this personal [00:18:00] diplomacy with trust building networking in many countries that really helps to kind of today. I have my colleagues that, oh, we will. And I moved to Bangkok after, right. So I lived in France, then I moved to Thailand and I lived in Canada.
I lived in Washington, DC, and I lived in more in Brazil, of course. And now I'm in Italy. So it's kind of, some point gets Tre with the bureaucracy, you know, the visa things. That's, uh, what I'm, but apart from that is fascinating because you adapt and I think that's what the world needs today. Right? We all had to adapt so fast, but honestly, for me, it was.
When the lockdown came, I just felt that was just my regular life that everybody could finally understand that we could do so much online, that we could do so much virtually. So a lot of distracting of the negotiations we did virtually and I worked. Like this with slack or all this chat functions with people around the world that I never met since 2012.
So, you know, 10 years later, the world figured out that it is possible. We don't need to fly across the world to have, you know, a one-on-one meeting that that's absolutely insane
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you are listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast in our interview with Dr. Nicole de Paula.
To learn more about Women Leaders for Planetary Health's mission to empower women to lead planetary health solutions at frontlines of development in the Global South visit WLPH.org.
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Now here's more of our interview with Nicole.
Did you miss traveling though for someone who likes to be on the go.
Nicole: Exactly, that's a very, you know, interesting question and. The good thing is I did so much that I feel that. I feel a bit satisfied with, you know, the places that I've been and it's never enough there's no, if you like traveling, you know, you can always do again and, and learn more and spend more time. But I definitely felt at the beginning was fine because, you know, with the lockdown you could produce everything and write, I used my time, a lot to do the writing and.
What I miss is just, um, the easing, you know, the facility that you could go. So now, if you're in Italy, Italy, you have to go back to Germany. It feels like you're going to another continent in the civil war, you know? So, and that's the thing, it's very, it's sad because, you know, if you have family also abroad and it's just, it's kind of a, a worry that if you need to travel fast and, and, and not every.
We'll have, you know, the same advantages or being treated equally. So in the end, the most vulnerable will always suffer more. They will not have support. They cannot. So I miss, I miss the, the easy connections to exotic places. so in 2019 new co-founded the planetary health research group. So tell us about that and what the mission is of that organization.
So this group is at the, is hosted by the universal Sao Paul in Brazil. And, and it's hosted by the, there is an Institute for advances studies there and was with together with professor Antonio Saraiva, who is an absolutely partnering crime and that in Brazil and an amazing group of. Interdisciplinary researches.
So we were, we actually with professor sarava, we met in the first meeting of the planetary health Alliance in Boston. It was hosted by Harvard and we met in a museum, uh, with, you know, I think it was natural history and you have like ping wings around us. So it was a very fun dinner. And in the bit of the.
And we just connected. And for many years we were, you know, discussing and going to these meetings. Every, every it's an annual meeting until Brazil got the right to host for, for the first time the planetary health Alliance would, you know, give the right for a developing country to host this, this conference.
And then we, we were just natural partners and we had, we were working direct together. So we decided to have this an official center, uh, at the university of Sao Paulo in the most interdisciplinary center. And this is growing now I'm affiliated I'm founder co-founder and professor is really leading that.
Now he's a very senior professor there, so it's, it's just fascinating because it's not something, you know, that belongs to the university. Of Sao, but it's something that belongs to Brazil because we have many partners. We have people from all regions, as you know, Brazil's a very, very big country. So it's kind of really well distributed now.
And it's fascinating to, even for me, when you go to meetings, you have all different accents from Brazil. You know that sometimes you, if you'll sustain your bubble, you don't even listen to different voices. And, and if you're advocating for this diversity in decision making it. You know, it starts there.
We have to have people from different regions, so that's, it's growing and we could host successfully the. In last year. Yeah, because January, so definitely like, uh, last year, I think April, we got 5,000 people who register for this and, you know, from 130 countries. And, and because also it was the first time it would be in Brazil, but the pandemic had to be online, but we really took the opportunity to make this.
An inclusive, you know, not that a lot of people would, this conferences would be usually around 400 people and we could at least bring that to the houses of, you know, in people in hundred, 130 countries. So, and that's why the, what I like to talk about also volunteer health movement. It's a scientific thing, but also if you don't talk and people don't get excited and don't wanna do things, it's usually right.
The planetary health movement, as you know, social movement is very important as well. And I think we've worked quite well and there are now new programs of young ambassadors from different universities and they're doing things. So it's about also inspiring others to, to get to know more about the few, to apply to their, how would they think, you know, in their topic of research discuss this.
So, yeah, so very proud of that one. That's how I could help my own country. Explore the team.
And in 2020 you founded the Women Leaders for Planetary Health. So what is the mission of that organization?
Nicole: Yeah, it was so the United nations climate conference, the cop 25 December. I had it with the support of, I, I asked this organization that was in pots.
I really wanted to do something that would, I was doing so much on voluntary health, but the gender dimension was really mentioned. I wasn't hearing about it. It was just. You know, unknown issue. So, so, uh, I, I definitely the mission is we want to empower women to lead planetary health solutions in the global south, simple as that, because how many women, you know, and sustainability is very full of women, but how many women really leading solutions or, you know, receive funding to do their own thing, or that's the challenge that we have.
Right. And so I wanted to focus. On that discussion first to understand why if we empower women, what's the difference for planetary. And I mean, we're doing research on that, right. But of course there's many indications that you can accelerate the impact of sustainable development policies. If you have women empowered and able to, to take the lead and, and make a change, if you wanna like in food systems, for example, if you, you can be investing agriculture in bio things, however, if women don't have land.
You know, legally they're discriminated and they cannot produce their own things or do practices. Um, it's kind of useless. So we need to pay attention to this, to many of inequalities of inequalities, not only income, but also opportunities. And that's why I wanted to again, bring the planetary health conversation to low and middle income countries.
So I was really targeting that as part of the. That's why the first, um, round we created a digital academy, which was with the pandemic was great because everything could be digital. And it could, we, we had third more than 30 countries participating in our things. So, and, and, and very, let's say non reachable, difficult countries, you know, we had people in Palestine had people from Sudan.
We had people named Zimbabwe from Brazil, you know, in Latin America. In all these women, they all share the same problems, but also the same passion and the same solutions. You see the they're doers, you know, and the, the [00:28:00] narrative is really not to make oh, women is, I didn't create organizations to say, oh, we are suffering.
It's so difficult. They're discriminated. The point is how we empower them to, to do what they wanna do and, but have the right resources and the leadership. So we focus really on, on leadership training sessions and with, we had our wonderful Angela field who also supported us on that. And I was mostly focusing on, on this research part of planetary health.
And so we write papers and do the research as well. How climate or. Biodiversity. How does things connect to gender? Yeah. So that's how we, and it's, it's growing the UN, so it was good to also have that conversation at the UN that's, how it started. And now we are a social enterprise, you know, legal institution in Germany.
And, and that's, I'm very excited to see how this is growing. We have a team in Brazil. Now we have things growing Africa. We have things in Southeast Asia. Yeah. Very excited. That's I think how we get that's the, the passion, I think our jobs. And if you work with the policy makers, it's not always fun. Right?
They're of course politics entered in the middle. Things can be delayed and take time to, to drive change. But this is really the fun part. I think of my work, cuz you see the results and you see also the results at the personal level. You know, you have sometimes I think we underestimate how much we could help people by simple things, just, you know, supporting them with the letter.
So the mentoring part of our, we had this digital academy, but also we were pairing individuals with senior mentors. So we had a mentorship program. Targeting low middle income countries, women in low middle income countries. So, and I heard so many stories after, because at the beginning I thought, well, you know, this is not, I mean, it's not a big deal.
It's just, okay, we're helping a little bit. But when you see the later, what they tell and the things, the decisions that they took in the end, or the courage that they had to do, their own things, they really, you get surprised and you say, wow, and this is, you know, we did this and that's very rewarding.
Passionistas: Can you tell us about maybe a success story, something that you've seen come through the organization?
Nicole: Yeah, I think it, I mean, what I saw a lot was this positive. They tell stories that, oh, when I joined the program, I was, you know, I was a bit lost. I didn't know what to do or maybe careers. And they normally, they felt empowered to take the decisions that they already knew that they would do, but they felt validated somehow that that's, oh, that's I can do this.
So I heard many stories like this. If they wanna maybe start a new master's program or if they wanna change careers, if they wanna quit their toxic. You know, there were stories like this or people who they want to change industries and do more work on sustainability. I saw a lot of this and simply, and maybe at the end, I can tell another story, but don't keep it a secret.
Passionistas: So what can women who aren't kind of full-time activists in this field? What can we do on a day to day basis to have an impact on the planet?
Nicole: Yeah. So this is a very, it's a common question that we get, right? So how, of course, everybody wants to know how they can make a better place of role, but I like to call attention to, to another point, because yes, you can do your recycles.
You can eat, you know, reduce, consumption meat, normally, what is in terms of impact. If you change your diets, that's the easiest and the biggest impact you're gonna. So not so simple to do it. And especially it depends where you leave and your culture or your habit, but that's what researchers show that that's the biggest impact you can have.
If you change your diet, you have of course, more, more, less meat, less a more plants. And so there is something called plenary health diet that it doesn't say you can never eat meat, but you know, Definitely. We have to shift the quantity and the proportion of things that we are eating, as we know we're not so healthy these days.
So I would invite our, our participants to, to, you know, Google planter, health diet. That's an interesting exercise. But what I like to think about, and that's why it's, it's important also to think in this, which is also hard, but the systemic part, right. Nobody will completely change. What I'm trying to do is really how do you address the root causes of this problems that are saving?
I don't think it's our five minute, three minute or 60 seconds shower that will do that. So when we try to put the, the solutions on the shoulders of individuals only, you're not addressing the problem. You're just masking. The problem. And you're just, you know, you want to delay action because what you need to do is to change drastic.
You know, you need to change trade rules, you need to change the way supply chains you need to, it's not only one company, right. That company has thousands of companies involved in their business. So how do we do that? So I'm more interested now in, in really in. Transformative systems for sustainability.
And of course we have the UN sustainable development goals who, who addressed it. It's a very, it's a plan for development and address so many questions that they're important. But as you see there, it's very hard to disconnect one goal from the other, but many institutions they say, oh, I do, you know, SDG two or four or five.
I do gender. And what I like to say, no, if you don't do everything. A little bit, if you don't understand the connections, you're not doing much. So, which is difficult to do because obviously capacity and is limited. Time is limited. Resources are limited. We need to prioritize, use your best skills and maybe focus on what you can do best, but you need partnerships.
Nobody will do this alone. So that's why the individual quest, what can we do is yeah, you can start with your house and then maybe influencing your own family and your building and start expanding, but also try to educate yourself about these connections, because I see a lot of people. Oh, use this or consume that, but there's so many inconsistencies things, you know, they would, maybe they are young activists, but they're using Neo Polish full of chemicals for, because it's cheaper from, I don't know, another country try to understand the whole picture.
And, and I think that's the way we can have a bigger impact and on women. Right. Let me just, uh, address that. And I think because. Women need to support women. That's simple, you know, for too long, we are also trying this narrative. Oh, women are difficult. You know, today I was hearing someone, if you, since a lot of positions of power are, you know, occupied by men.
Also, if, if you're a woman you're just maybe used to kind of, let's say. Working for men or serving that, you know, the ideas of men have. And, and then if women wants to do things they're normally considered difficult or challenging, you know, this is so typical and, and it's happening every day and it's just getting tiring now.
And I think women need to stop that and help each other. To, instead of making things worse for ourselves, because we already have a lot of challenge in life. So it's, it's just not acceptable that we are also struggling with other women. So I think it just is more cohesion and support solidarity would make life for all of us so much easier.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast in our interview with Dr. Nicole de Paula. To learn more about Women Leaders for Planetary Health's mission to empower women to lead planetary health solutions the frontlines of development in the Global South visit WLPH.org.
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Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.
Tuesday Jul 12, 2022
Kirsten Barrie Supports Women Founders to Achieve Their Dreams
Tuesday Jul 12, 2022
Tuesday Jul 12, 2022
Kirsten Barrie is the Founder and Owner of Verte Consulting. She has over 16 years of experience as a CFO working with large corporate brands, small businesses, marketing agencies, tech start-ups, retail/e-tail and professional service businesses. She’s passionate about effecting change of financial equality by supporting women and founders and helping them achieve their dreams.
Learn more about Kirsten.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Kirsten Barrie
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Kirsten Barrie, the founder and owner of Verte Consulting. Kirsten has over 16 years of experience as a CFO, working with large corporate brands, small businesses, marketing agencies, tech startups, retail, e-tail and professional service businesses. She's passionate about affecting change of financial equality by supporting women and founders and helping them achieve their dreams. So please welcome to the show Kirsten Barrie.
Kirsten: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Passionistas: Oh, we're so excited to talk to you about what you do and we're gonna hopefully learn a lot of things becasue we could use it.
Kirsten: I hope so. I hope everyone listening to the podcast. The takeaway is that they have a interest in their business finances. I have a goal to make finances sexy. I really want women plus founders specifically to have a good feeling when they're thinking about their finances. And when they think about the tasks that they have to do for the finances. I want women to fall in love with the process, not the outcome.
So I don't necessarily want women to be like, oh, I'm gonna be rich. Because that doesn't get any of us anywhere. What I want is getting excited about what it takes to do organizationally in order for whatever that outcome is. So if women leave this podcast with that takeaway, I'd be very excited.
Passionistas: What's the one thing you're most passionate about
Kirsten: Specifically, women founders having their own freedom, with money and their business. And that freedom comes from my belief is control and being organized. I want women to have a wonderful team, ideally, a very diverse team and creating opportunities for lots of people and feeling really great about themselves and the team feeling really great about whatever their business is that they're doing.
The result of a really well functioning business in the profit would be that the women founder, has her own personally, she's giving herself a paycheck that is comfortable for her, and she is never in a situation that she can't get out of. That's a thing that I've been in and a lot of other women I speak to have been in where even at various levels of wealth, sometimes there's a situation where domestically or just in some
other physical location, you can't get out of it because of a financial barrier. And I don't want anyone to have that. So the business owner, the team members that work in the business, I want everyone to feel like they have that freedom and that opportunity to be able to do that. I think I'm very, uh, Bernie Sanders.
I'm very much like if you have the money, pay your team as much as you possibly can. I do not believe in, oh, this role. Benchmarks for this fee and that's all you're gonna get. I'm I believe if the company's making more money, pay them more money. They're not, they're only gonna do great things with that.
So I really would love to see that and have everybody just feel good and, and their life work life balance is so much more improved. So that's what I get really passionate about.
Passionistas: And why is it so important to you to focus on women and female business owners?
Kirsten: I didn't at first, I think I'm now actually my 17th year. So I took on all clients because I I'm very excited about businesses in general. And startups we all have like a soft place in our heart for our startups. And, but what I observed over all the years was that I wasn't really bringing the same light bulb and aha moments value to my, the male clients versus the women clients.
That was one thing that. It dawned on me that I have male colleagues that could bring the same value that I'm bringing to my male clients. And I believe that there's more than enough business to go around. So why not let them work with them? I really enjoyed at the end of the day is when I go to bed at night and I would recall the conversations I had with women where they're like, oh my gosh, this male CPA, no offense, male CPAs, but I get this.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard this phrase, this male CPA, wouldn't explain this concept to me, and you've just explained it in two minutes. It's so easy. It now makes sense to me. So they spent years asking the same question to somebody and being either mansplained to, or talked down to or brushed off.
And finance is a science. It's definitely specific. It's not brain surgery. Like it definitely can be explained. It can be understood. We're not like we with small brains, like it's very, it's very tangible and very easily able to be executed. So. That really excites me. And then statistically, our wealth gap is like 32 cents to the dollar.
Um, that's not the pay gap. The pay gap is also an issue, but overall women's wealth gap. Is that in, I think statistically in the United States, that includes women that don't want wealth. So that's totally fine that they're in a, in a lifestyle where that isn't important to them, but there are plenty of us that it is important to that.
So I think that's really important. And then it gets even worse with black and Latin women, like it's cents to the dollar with the wealth gap. And again, that comes back to power and them having financial freedom and freedom to make choices in their own personal lives. And that's a really big deal to me.
So those two factors. I had an aha moment. I was in England. I was taking a walk in the park. I don't know why it came to me and I just had this moment where I thought, wait a minute. At the end of the day, I want to know that I moved the needle in the style, I helped more women CEOs, I helped those women create amazing teams and those teams did amazing things,
and I created improvement on quality of life by doing this. And I will take on male clients as long as they prove diversity and actually prove equality. They can't just say it . Um, I need actually see the proof, insane thing. Like I would never take on a female client that would be acting in an in equal way.
And unfortunately that some of those women do exist, but very rare so that I think those are the two reasons why it became really passionate to me. Yeah.
So, let's take a step back. Tell us a little bit about where you grew up and what your childhood was like. And how did you start this path to where you've ended up?
I was a child of divorced parents. I don't know if that lends itself to seeing the world a little sooner than maybe you should, like, I don't recall having much of a childhood. Like I do, I believe children should have childhoods as long as you possibly can have help them do that. I'm fairytale in that way. I think that's actually really important for people.
I did not have that. And I think that experience, led me to want to create idealistic situations because I didn't see that. And I could see the problems that were happening at quite a young age. And I thought there was love fairness in things that didn't makes sense. So I think traveling and that environment, I don't know, led to some kind of just like observations like, personality traits. I ended up meandering into boarding school and then meandering to college and then transferring colleges and then getting married, then getting divorced. I think everything built upon itself, and I grew as a human we've talked about this, off the air, but I had an acting career and worked in entertainment, wrote a little bit, produced it a little bit, loved creating art in that film performance away.
And I think that still led somehow, culminated into what I do now, which is running this business, being the spokesperson of the business. Um, I do speaking, I do these lovely podcasts. Thank you again. So, I think that that somehow all the path kind of meandered into this viewpoint and this passion of, I wanna see a change and I wanna make things better. And I feel like there is a better way to be and strive for that existence.
Passionistas: So, what did you learn during that period where you were acting and in the entertainment business that you carried forward into your more entrepreneurial career?
Kirsten: I think one of the biggest, and it's not really related to giving any financial advice, but just entrepreneurial advice is, when I used to audition, we were trained that the audition was the performance.
And not to think past that, not to think like, oh, the action. If I get this role, what will that be? But to really just focus on the audition as a moment in time. And that's your like three-minute amazing performance and you walk out of that room, usually the casting room and move on with your life is if you just did the thing and then you do that over and over and over and over again.
and, and that can wear on someone if they're constantly thinking that the outcome is the role. But if you change the outcome to be even just that, you know, three-minute experience you have with those people as the actual, like that's the product, it doesn't wear you out. I think it's very like and uplifting so I think in business, sometimes we get exhausted because we have the outcome and if we're not hitting that outcome, like I talked about the beginning. It feels horrible. So to fall in love with the process is really the most important part of it. And the outcomes will happen, but it's really the process, the habits that you develop as you're trying to get to that, that I think, keep you going.
Passionistas: So then talk about 2005, you started Verte Consulting. So what, what was the process? Why did you start it and what was the inspiration behind it?
Kirsten: Oh, I wish it was so much more romantic and sexy than the actual story. I got divorced. I was teaching yoga. I was not paying the bills. My ex-husband was hiding money. I found out later. Left me with all the bills and I, you know, was young. I was in my twenties. See, these are things that I don't want, anyone would have to go through. I thought, oh, okay I'll, you know, I'll, I'll pay my own bills. Even though I had like completely. Spent, you know, five years rearranging my life around an narcissist, which is what they do.
So yeah, not good. I didn't, I didn't know. I was so young and no one was like, I was so naive. So because I had a website design company and a design company that did photography and all this stuff, some colleagues of mine from that industry knew that I actually had done a bunch of business courses and a bunch of business training and accounting, because as an artist.
And the goal was to have acting career and everything else was just like paying its bills. I wanted to be a successful business person to run my artistic career. And I thought everyone else knew this business had business acumen. I didn't, I might like, I need to do that too. Turns out no one had business acumen and I was this like rare golden person that actually gone and, and taken myself to get educated in this way.
So these colleagues hired me to do their accounting. For 20 hours a week in their SEO business, remember the SEO companies of use exist. So they were this really high end, very expertise, high level SEO company, and they were pretty huge. And then 20 hours a week, I ran their SEO depart. And then eventually it grew so big that I turned over the SEO management, took them on as a client.
And at the time remember 2005, remember the economy in 2005? Oh, the days. So at that time I was turning away work. Businesses wanted me left and right. I basically said, Hey, I'm gonna be your outsource CFO for Monday. You could have me on Monday. You could have me on Wednesday. You could have me on Thursday.
I gave them all like a day or two of my time. And so that that's actually how I started and I just ran around from client to client. And then in between that, I ran around auditions and did performances. So it was actually really flexible and really nice that I was able to juggle all of that. I mean, it was, I did have a lot of free time, but in a week I was able to do all of that very well.
Passionistas: And so at what point did you become more of a digital nomad and, and not stay focused in Los Angeles and, and live that dream?
Kirsten: So from 2005 to 2013, I ran around Los Angeles in traffic. The farthest was, uh, I think Calabasas from Hollywood to Calabasas, do not recommend. So I ran around all over LA uh, driving the clients. For those many years exhausted. And they discovered cloud-based apps in 2013, the end of 2012, 2013. So worked from home from 2013 until your question of being, becoming a digital nomad, uh, 2018. So the sad part of it is that my dog passed away. So I realized I could go anywhere. I've been working from a home office in this beautiful town home,
I had the whole bottom floor I made at my office. It was like very professional and wonderful, but then once she passed away, I just thought, oh, I can work anywhere that there was internet. That's actually how it started, and then I started traveling and then like 18 countries later. Here I am.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And you are listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Kirsten Barrie. To get your company running efficiently on cloud-based apps, so you can start leading your digital nomad dreams, visit VerteConsulting.com.
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Now here's more of our interview with Kirsten.
Tell us about some of those countries and which ones were your favorites.
Kirsten: I could ask the favorites a lot and it's hard to answer that because every country has pros and cons. Every country is for me, was related around my experience. I noticed that if my Airbnb was troublesome, my feeling for the country lowered. So are the city. So for example, everyone loves Lucerne Switzerland, but I had a really rough Airbnb. It wasn't anything. It was, although one of the first Airbnbs that was not at all like the pictures. So everything in the pictures were staged.
They had like completely different furniture and completely different everything. And then when I walked in, it was like dirty and dark and gross and like not comfortable. I ended up getting a gym membership and taking showers at the gym instead, cuz I just was so comfortable with the Airbnbs bathroom. But like Lucerne is like gorgeous.
I have photos that I go back and I look and I'm like, look at the beautiful bridge and look at the water and look at the flowers. And so it's interesting that my feelings for each place tends to be related to like my own experience. So from there, for example, I went to Grindelwald um, and I am a big hiker. So I got to hike the Alps, which is like a bucket list situation.
So I was there for like, I don't know, three weeks just hiking all the time, like working from looking at the Alps, like literally looking at the Alps, hiking in the Alps, so amazing, right. Japan was definitely one of my favorites, but I only saw the bottom island. I did, uh, hot Springs week. I hopped over from South Korea and just did a week there.
Uh, so I haven't seen the rest of Japan yet, but I don't think anyone is a bad thing to say about their visit to Japan. So I think it's usually a top list. Italy is also by one of my favorites. I've only again, seen the Northern part. I was in Chiquita, Pisa, Florence, and then lake Como or Como de Lago. I mean, the lake that I hiked, of course I hiked around there too.
The lake is like this, and then the mountains come up. So like there's the towns on the water. And then there's like up in the mountains, like all the houses, the rich people's houses. So, gosh, let's see. Yeah. I was in Africa, Europe and Asia. So all over, there are places that I didn't get to go. And they're still on my bucket list.
Things like Ireland, Wales, more of Europe. I can't see enough of Europe. It feels like definitely Japan. I did not get to go to any of Southeast Asia that was on the 2000. Let's see, what would that be? Was it 20? Was that the year of our pandemic mm-hmm , mm-hmm 2020, right. Beginning the beginning of our pandemic.
So I don't know how many of the listeners here are into vision boards, but I'm really into vision boards. And I cried when I looked up my 2020 vision board, I made it, I think it was the end of 2019. Like I always do at the end of the year for my 2020. And literally nothing, nothing. When is planned, the vision board was just like a joke and I stumbled upon it like eight months later.
And I was like, oh yeah, this thing. Yeah. So I didn't, I didn't see Southeast Asia yet. I didn't get to Australia or New Zealand yet. Those are definitely ways off. I have colleagues in New Zealand and Australia and you can't even get to New Zealand, uh, Australia. You can maybe, I think everyone saw they'll let someone in, but I think both of those are pretty like business only.
You've done like special. Yeah. You know what I haven't visited is Canada. It doesn't feel exotic to me. Right. It's just like there . So it's funny. It is a different country, but like it's not on my bucket list. I mean, ban would be, but like generally speaking, I don't think of Canada, something I would like go live at.
Whereas these other countries actually go and I live and I work out of usually an Airbnb or I find like a local apartment to lease for three. And also just to point out, I love helping other people. If they wanna do a digital nomad work lifestyle, I love answering questions on that. So anyone can always reach out to me on those questions as well.
Passionistas: Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that's one thing you do to help people, but what are some of the other services that you provide?
Kirsten: So the main services at the company is the monthly recurring one on one CFO services. So those are businesses that are usually 500,000 to 5 million, usually 100, 1 million to 5 million annual revenue, and they need CFO services.
They need payroll, accounting, forecasting, budgeting, finance models, just general help. I make sure that they don't make huge MIS. I don't control the money of any business, but I am their devil's advocate. I will say, no. Keep outsourcing your dev team, do not hire an in-house dev team here is why. And I will break it down for them and they will see the light.
I, once I give 'em the right information, they always make the right financial choices. It's just that they don't know. For example, like a lot of business owners don't realize when you hire someone in a different state, you are then paying payroll taxes in that state and it gets extra complicated. In each state you add on, you get a whole bunch of extra complication for payroll. So also subcontractors versus employees, making sure that's sorted out. It's all these like little intricate things that can eat away at a company's profit. Those are the main bread and butter of the company. Is these one-on-one out. CFO services.
And it's usually about five, 10% of the gross revenue of a company, which should be the minimum one pays for, for the accounting. I cannot stress that enough. do not go cheap on your accounting with my company, with anybody. It just will not serve you. And then I'm working on a beta that I'm about to release.
I had released it right before the pandemic and then paused it and pulled it. And was like, okay, this, this isn't gonna work. taking another stab at a do it yourself finance course, and that is for the, the startups, the solo pioneers, the under 500,000 businesses that really don't have the budget or the activity to hire someone like an outsource CFO.
But what I don't wanna see is, and this happens a lot businesses outsourcing to a entry level bookkeeper that may be detrimental. This happens more than not. And I don't really know if it's. The bookkeepers. I get the sense from all the years of doing this, that someone will have done some accounting in a business, and then they'll call themselves a bookkeeper later and go and try to outsource themselves as a bookkeeper, but they actually don't have any accounting knowledge.
So what that does is that's detrimental to the business tax wise organization, wise planning wise, it just isn't good. So this course is gonna give the big picture and how it relates to the small picture to a business owner and why they wanna do certain. Smaller steps and habits because of the big picture.
And I'm hoping that will enlighten people to not just use a bookkeeper that only maybe is working on the small picture and working on the small picture incorrectly, which is what I commonly see. Uh, because it goes. You know, your daily activity to like your monthly and annual activity to your filing your taxes.
That's kind of the sequence of small to big picture. Um, so that course is coming soon. If you're interested in joining the beta, um, we'll have my contact information at the end of the podcast and please reach out and I will see if you're a good fit for the beta. And then if not, we'll get released in the summer as a full course.
And then I'm adding, helping companies, getting over the finishing line for equity and fundraising. So it's gonna be a service that is kind of like low key being done right now for some clients, but it will start to be added on as a service. And then the five-year plan is to get some specific CFOs for the 5,000,00 and 1 to 5 million and more businesses that are going to go public.
So we'll have CFO services down the road for those larger companies, cuz that's a whole different ballgame and there's a lot of requirements, industry requirements that would need to be done for that. So that'll be down the road, but the idea is that going forward, there will be services from the person starting their business all the way to taking to public and specifically women plus founders. So that should. Give a lift to this industry.
Passionistas: So now you also offer on your site a free business plan template. So talk about that aspect of the business. You, you mainly just deal with financial stuff for you or clients, but why is it so important for a startup to put a business plan together?
Kirsten: Beginning business, won't be able to fill out every section of that. But what I like about this is that they can look at what they do need to research. So I have a little bit of like a drip email campaign that gives recommendations, you know, put this on your to-do list for this week. Like this one section go and research sections of the swot analysis or go and research.
Like, do you have a regional market or a national market? I think all those things are important for the business to, to start to think with they, most of the businesses, it might take a year, or more, I think to answer each one of these questions, but it'll get those juices flowing. It'll get them thinking about it.
And then in turn, the part that I focus on is the finances. They should come to me and do some sessions to get the finance part organized. And I can tell them how to do that because it usually takes a couple steps of organization before you could spit out those numbers, that are in the business plan, but those numbers are important for so many reasons.
If they're needing to make sure they have enough cash to keep running, I really believe. Money is a commodity as much as possible. You should use money to make more money. Money is not like a finite thing where like you make it at the end of that. And it just pays us what the businesses need to do is obviously we need to do payroll there's expenses that, you know, aren't commodity, but generally speaking, we need to take that money and figure out how to scale and grow that business in order to do that.
The financial sections in the business plan need to get filled out. And that's where I come in and help them. But I do really believe that whole, the whole business plan is beneficial. And I will, while I won't be an expert in those areas with my clients, I do coach a little bit outside of finances for every client, because I care about their business.
I'm their team member. Like I want their business to grow because it means everyone is happy. What's your definition of success? I think it changes. I think part of it is financial freedom and that vision of like being healthy at an older age and doing what you want I'm of the generation that doesn't have the pension doesn't have like amazing savings and 401k plans.
And I just, that boat missed me. So I'm trying to do catch up work now. It's not fun. So. I wanna be healthy so that I could work until my last days. I personally don't wanna just like retire and do nothing. That to me would be the opposite of success for me. I know that's a lot of my that's my parents' generation success.
That's what they're doing right now. But I would rather that I have the flexibility to do whatever it is that I'm doing. And it pays for my lifestyle, whatever that is and keeps me happy. I'm not like forced to work and I'm not. Uh, so unhealthy that I can't work. So, and then the other part of that is seeing other people succeed, that if I had a hand in someone else succeeding, that I think makes me feel.
Like I was of service. Like there's that mantra, like be of service, like that is really our job. We're put here on this planet to be of service to others. So, and that can go in all different ways. Like sometimes being of service may seem, but look, the person might seem like they're self-involved, but that's not always the case, like artists and musicians, they're being of service to the world.
Even, it might seem like they're doing it for themselves. So I think, yeah, those are like my two ways that I swing back and forth, like my own personal. Future versus what am I doing in the world right now?
Passionistas: What advice would you give to a young woman who wants to follow her passions?
Kirsten: Have a sugar daddy, just kidding. Just kidding. do not do that. I met many of those in LA. I was always in awe of those women. I met so many of them and they're like, I have a sugar daddy and they'd explain to me the details. And I was just like, my eyeballs would open up. Right? Like I was [00:28:00] divorced and left penniless. And so here's this like women that's like only having sex with, as the rent is paid.
And I just was like, I can't, I can't. No. So seriously ladies and everyone. if you have a passion, be flexible in what that Passionistas. For example, in my twenties, I never thought I'd be running a finance company. Like that sounds horrible and boring. That's not, that's not something you're passionate about running a finance company, but I am passionate about making the difference for other women and having climbed a mountain that hopefully.
They won't have to climb it because I did already. And I'm trying to help them steer around this mountain, avoid the mountain. That is exciting. So I'm able to, to feel fulfilled through this avenue. Um, and it gives me ability to do other avenue. I do art in my free time. I'm writing a book, I'm creating this course.
There's all these things that I can do because I have this course, sorry, because I have this business. So if you have a passion are like, um, a clothing designer. And you're like, this will make me happy to make these clothes and you do it and you succeed, go for it. But if you run into so many roadblocks that you can't seem to get success with that find a way to whatever the joy is about that fashion designing, find a way to get that out in the world. Maybe it's like doing large murals, like somehow you just fall into mural making instead of clothing making. And, but you're still getting. Art in the world, you're still making people smile. You're still making this city prettier, whatever it is that like makes you excited of being a fashion designer.
So I think that falls back into like, there's the whole lean business canvas concept, where you have an idea of what you wanna do and you test it out as minimal as possible. And if it doesn't hit. It doesn't hit. No one buys your thing. No, one's gonna buy your thing. There's nothing, you can't force it down.
People's throats. So as a business owner, you have to check your ego and be like, okay, let's adjust the thing I'm putting out there. And then you see if it hits. And if that doesn't hit you go back and you iterate big keyword here, you fix it again. You set it out into the world and be like, does this hit?
So I think you kind have to do that with your passion. I think if you set your site too much on the outcome, and that is. The only key to your own happiness, you will forever be unhappy. So you can't put your key to your happiness in this like external thing you need to find. And I think this takes a lot of soul searching. What is it that you're, what's the core why? Simon, Sinex of why you're doing that. And you can maybe find various ways to get that out into the.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Kirsten Barrie to get your company running efficiently on cloud-based apps, so you can start leading your digital nomad dreams visit VerteConsulting.com.
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Until next time stay well and stay passionate.
Wednesday Jun 29, 2022
Mountaineer and Cancer Survivor Lisa Thompson
Wednesday Jun 29, 2022
Wednesday Jun 29, 2022
Lisa Thompson is a Mountaineer, cancer survivor, and sought-after speaker and coach. She worked for 25 years as an engineer and in leadership roles at technology companies. In 2008, she began climbing and has summited most of the most challenging mountains in the world, including Mount Everest and K2. She's completed the seven summits reaching the top of the highest peak of each of the seven continents. Through her company, Alpine Athletics, and other platforms, Lisa shares her message of strength and resilience with corporate and private groups worldwide. She is also the author of “Finding Elevation” which chronicles her path from novice climber to world class mountain.
Learn more about Lisa.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
Full Transcript:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their Passionistas to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Lisa Thompson, a mountaineer, cancer survivor and sought-after speaker and coach. Lisa worked for 25 years as an engineer and in leadership roles at technology companies.
In 2008, she began climbing and has summited most of the most challenging mountains in the world, including Mount Everest and K2. She's completed the seven summits reaching the top of the highest peak of each of the seven continents. Through her company, Alpine Athletics and other platforms. Lisa shares her message of strength and resilience with corporate and private groups worldwide.
She is also the author of “Finding Elevation,” which chronicles Thompson's path from novice climber to world class mountain. So please welcome to the show. Lisa Thompson.
Lisa: Great to be here. Thanks for having me today.
Passionistas: We're really excited to have you here and hear your story. And, uh, we always like to start with the question. What's the one thing you're most passionate about?
Lisa: Right now, I think this has changed over the years. I'm sure that's just the normal progression of a life, but right now I am most passionate about giving back to. Women in the communities that I love communities in Nepal and in Pakistan where I've, you know, really feel at home in the mountains and have spent a lot of time and have great memories there.
And it's important to me to give back to those communities, especially the women. I recently started a nonprofit to support women in Nepal and specifically to support their education. It was shocking to me to learn that something like 58% of women in Nepal over the age of 15 have had. Zero education, none at all, which is just, you know, alarming on many levels.
But in one regard, they're really the center of a Nepalese family and community. And the fact that there's been no formal education for so many of those women just felt like something that was, that I wanted to impact in a positive way.
Passionistas: Where did you grow up and what was your childhood like? Were you always interested in, in, uh, climbing and being outdoors?
Lisa: So I grew up in the great mountaineering state of Illinois, where the highest point I believe is 120 feet. And it's so predominant that it actually has a name. Whereas in most states, if that elevation would not be named, so I didn't grow up. Aspiring to be a Mountaineer. I didn't grow up learning or reading about, you know, sir, Edmond Hillary or other sort of pioneering mountaineers.
And I wasn't even really that athletic, you know, looking back, I grew up in a small farming community, uh, called Lincoln in the very center of Illinois. You know, every kid sort of makes the, the softball team or the volleyball team. I think there were a couple years where I did not even make it. I was so uncoordinated and unathletic a and I didn't grow up really with parents who pushed me to Excel.
You know, I think part of their sort of distance is what motivated me to prove myself and to, you know, you know, back then it was about getting their attention. Lots of time in therapy talking about that. But one of the positives of that I've realized is that it pushed me to really want to Excel and to push myself mentally and physically.
And that translated first, you know, I'm still by my account, but only person in my entire extended family to graduate from college, which is sort of sad, you know, to me, but it pushed me to do things that were unexpected. In my community and with my family. And so, you know, going to college was sort of the first step in that direction.
I studied engineering, you know, not because I was super interested in it, but because I felt like that seems hard and I can probably make a decent salary when I graduate. And so I was fortunate to get a job with Hewlett Packard right out of college as an engineer, then it was, you know, that was the mid-nineties.
I was the only woman at my level. And that taught me a lot. I was certainly not prepared coming from. You know, a very sort of hardworking farming-oriented family. I was not equipped to be thrown into a corporate environment at that age. I was 24. And so there was a lot of sort of flailing and trying to understand dynamics and politics.
And I was often the youngest person in the room, the only female in the room. And. Upon reflection. Um, there were definitely some missteps, some things that I just, frankly didn't understand, cuz I was ill-equipped to be in that kind of environment. But one very positive thing that came of that was that through that job, I eventually moved to Seattle, which is where I live today.
And here. You know, mountaineering, we're fortunate to be surrounded by the Cascade mountains and the Olympic mountain range. So climbing and mountaineering and just being in the mountains is really part of the culture in Seattle. When I moved here, uh, for that job still with, you know, it wasn't any longer with Hewlett Packard, but it was a derivation of that company.
All the men at my level would go climbing on the weekend. And so I had no idea, right? I no, like I'd maybe been camping with my family, but I didn't like know anything about mountaineering. I didn't know what a crampon was. I had no idea the equipment, the gear, the, the, you know, the sort of aesthetic of climbing, nothing.
But these men, you know, would go out on the weekends and they would come back to the office on Monday and they had all. You know, incredible stories. And again, it wasn't that I aspired to be in the mountains, but I aspired to be a part of their group. And I wanted them so badly to see me, the only woman on their team as capable and strong.
And I wasn't getting that in the office environment. So this seemed like a way to do that. And instead of doing the totally logical thing, which would've been to say. Like oh, climbing. That sounds really cool. Can I come with you or can you tell me more about it? I just got frustrated. I got mad and eventually just decided I was gonna go climb my own damn mountains.
And I had no, I again had no idea what that meant, but I started really just hiking around my house in the cascades. And then eventually in 2008, I attempted Mount Rainier, which is the highest mountain in Washington. And after that I was, I was just hooked spite no spite I was hooked at that.
Passionistas: Do they know what you've accomplished since then?
Lisa: I've lost track of them. I could probably, you know, through a network, get back to them, but I don't, I don't know. Probably not and they probably don't even, you know, these weren't bad guys at all. It just, I think didn't occur to them to ask me to join. And so they probably would have no reason to wonder like, Hey, I wonder if that girl ever climbed any mountains.
Passionistas: You started to do this as, you know, a recreational activity, but then at some point that obviously shifted and you started to set these goals for yourself. So what inspired you to climb Mount Rainier and then to take it further from there?
Lisa: Yeah, there was something about, so I didn't summit Rainier. My first attempt, the weather sort of turned bad on our second day and retreated. And, and I was relieved in that moment. I was happy cuz I just, I. Again, no idea what I was doing. Although I was with, you know, I was with a guide company and I was safe and all that, but I really just mentally wasn't prepared to be on a mountain and to just feel sort of the vastness of that challenge.
And so I went back the next year before I got back to the parking lot in 2008, I was sure I was coming back. I tend to look at climbs like projects. And so even after that first year, I was like, okay, these are, you know, my backpack needs to be lighter. I need to have, you know, not red boots and have my own boots and just little things like that, that I started to like to learn and to, to tweak and adjust what I knew and my gear and my knowledge of the mountain.
So I went back in 2009 and summited, and there was a moment, you know, where I sort of it's dark out and you're, you know, you can't really. Appreciate where you're at on the mountain and the sort of vastness of everything around you and the risk of falling. And because all you can see in the dark is just this little tiny circle of light from your headlamp.
And so there was a moment where I remember looking what would've been east and seeing the sun just slowly start to split the horizon from the earth and. Just seeing like colors that were so magnificent and awe inspiring and thinking. This is an incredible experience and such a, a daunting place to be that taught me so much, so much humility to be learned in the mountains.
When I got to the summit, I just had this incredible sense of accomplishment that I hadn't found anywhere else. I hadn't really gotten it from my parents as a kid. I hadn't gotten it at work. I, you know, graduated from college, any accomplishment I had had in my life until that point hadn't made me feel that way.
And I loved that. I still love that climbing is. Obviously a very physical pursuit, but there is an enormous mental challenge that comes with climbing, you know, in any discipline of climbing. And I really loved that combination and I loved the idea of setting. Lofty goal and working hard and accomplishing it.
And so I was completely hooked at that point. In two, I was 2009 and ready to just, I did, again, didn't know a lot about what to climb next, but I was sure that I was gonna keep doing it.
Passionistas: You know, you were kind of inspired to do it by this being in this male dominated world. When you got to climbing, were there a lot of other women who were in doing what you were doing?
Lisa” No. In fact, I, in the beginning was gonna name my book, the only girl, and it has changed. This is, you know, the late 2000s. It is getting better. You know, there's more diversity that the only, and first all black team summited Everest last month, which is incredible to see. And I was fortunate to play a small role in coaching them.
So it's changing the dynamics, the face of, of people who enjoy the mountains is changing. But then I was. I don't always is maybe a strong word, but 95% of the time, I was the only woman on the team. And, you know, I was used to being in male dominated arenas, so that wasn't unusual for me, but I think it, you know, being an intense environment like climbing, just sort of heightened all of the challenges that come with that and made them much more potent.
And it took me a long time to realize. Or to think about how I showed up in those roles. There was always the, like people doubted and people would say, oh, it's cute. I think you're gonna climb Mount Everest. That's a whole other conversation, but what I tended to think about myself and how I showed up in those situations.
And at first I would just be one of the guys, I mean, so much so that they would undress in front of me and not even like, consider that there was a woman standing next to them. On Everest was the first time that I, that just didn't feel authentic to me anymore. It didn't feel right to laugh at crew. That were often, you know, demeaning to women.
It didn't feel right to overlook little comments that just didn't sit well with me anymore. And so that was the first time. And there's a moment. And I talk about it in my book where I, you know, all men and I sort of separated myself from them for a minute because it just, I needed to feel like a woman and I needed to feel like myself in that environment.
And, you know, at the time it. We're sort of arguing back and forth about my opinion about something versus theirs. But I realize now that it was me sort of stepping into my own strength and my own sort of persona as a woman and saying like this isn't okay anymore. And I'm not gonna just, you know, sit here and let it happen without saying anything.
It's still challenging. It's getting better. But yeah, there were a lot of moments there just being, the only woman was a challenge for me.
Passionistas: Do you think there are certain qualities that you, as a woman bring to a climb that's different than the male energy of a, of a climb?
Lisa: And again, generalizing. Right. But I, I'm fortunate now that I get to coach mountaineers and I coach men and women.
Um, and I, you know, I can see those nuances, even as I'm coaching them, women are much more interested in like the mental side. Of taking on a challenge, like a big mountain and making sure that they're very well rounded in their preparations. They wanna make sure that they're understanding the route. You know, they know where the challenges will be and that mentally they have the tools to get through them.
And men generally, again, not always the case, but often just like they wanna like train and work hard and do all the runs and all the hikes and all the preparation climbs. And don't often sort of step back and say, There's a whole other side of this. There's a whole other, you know, facet to climbing big mountains.
And, you know, my experience is that when you look at everything holistically is when you're the most prepared and when you're the most successful. And I think even on the mountains, you know, it's tough, there's difficult situations. And I find that women often add just a little bit more compassion to those situations.
A little bit more empathy. and sometimes that's what you need to get through something that's difficult. So there's my experience. Yeah. There's a big difference between what men and women bring to those situations.
Passionistas: So you, you have the successful Mount Rainier climb in 2009. What happens next? And how do you kind of plan where you go next?
Lisa: Yeah, so I didn't do a lot of planning. I just knew, I knew I wanted to keep climbing more challenging things and there's, you know, back in the eighties, I believe it was a couple of mountaineers society. It would be really cool to climb to the highest peak of every single continent. And so I thought, okay, I'll just start doing that.
You know, I don't know what to do. I picked the easiest, one of those, which was in Russia, a Mount called Elbrus and was successful there. So I thought, okay, well, Keep sort of on that track and climbing in the cascades as well, sort of, you know, like thinking, okay, I wanna be more independent and learn different skills, like building anchors and self-arrest and rope management.
And so I, I would take excursions on the weekends locally to do those things. And then about once a year I would climb something big somewhere else in the world. And I was on that track and I had sort of decided. Mount Everest was kind of the next logical thing for me to climb just in terms of skill and difficulty.
And at the time I felt like, oh, Everest is so commercial and there must be more interesting mountains in the Himalaya to climb. And so I had decided, and this really is a big moment. I think, in any mountaineers' career I had decided I was ready to climb in the Himalaya. So, you know, the Himalaya is this huge mountain range that bisects Asia and.
It's special for a lot of reasons, but one is that. Most of the highest mountains in the world are there. And when we say high, in terms of mountaineering, we're talking about any mountain that's higher than 26,000 feet or 8,000 meters. And there's only 14 of those in the world. And so I, in 2015 thought, okay, I think I'm ready.
Like I'm ready to try an easy one and just see how it goes. So. I picked that mountain, which is called Montes SL. And I was just beginning to prepare for it when I was diagnosed with cancer, you know, we, we've already established that. I'm a very stubborn person and I was a little cocky, you know, I was 42 years old.
I thought and, and an athlete, like I ate organic vegetables. I wore my seatbelt. I floss my teeth. Like I, all those things that you are, you are taught to believe will keep you healthy. I thought I was doing it turns out I had a tremendous amount of stress in my job, which is, you know, like looking back and sort of analyzing how my body could get reacted that way to an external thing. It probably was a lot of stress at work, but nonetheless, I was diagnosed with breast cancer at the beginning of 2015. I was determined. Not to let cancer dictate my priorities so much so that I sat with my surgeon and said like, is there any way we could just postpone this whole cancer thing?
Like, can we just like, how much could those tumors really grow in eight months? Like I just go do this climb and I'll come back and then you can do whatever you want with my body. When I get back and she very compassionately said that that would be a full hearty decision. I always remember that she used that word.
And so I was very fortunate that I was able to get rid of the tumors in my, uh, breast with a bilateral mastectomy from which I did at the beginning in April of 2015. And I was, I mean, determination. Isn't a big enough word for how focused I was on getting my body ready to still travel to Nepal and attempt Montes SL.
That autumn. And so I went, um, I was not, I was not a hundred percent. I had all, you know, all my doctors, all my care, healthcare providers knew what I was up to. They all thought I was a little bit crazy, but I had their support to be there. And. You know, their cell phone numbers, if anything went weird. And luckily it didn't, I didn't summit Manaslu in 2015, there was an avalanche above our camp.
And, you know, the team felt that it just wasn't safe to continue. So we all turned around and I, I firmly believe that mountains and, you know, nature teaches us things. And so. When I got home, I, you know, I just sort of did some reflection about that climb. And I think sometimes you learn the most when you're not successful when you don't summit.
But I realized that, you know, life is so fragile and that it's up to us. Each of us to define the lives that we will live. And so I became determined then to sort of reprioritize my life. My pause, my corporate career actually got a divorce and I decided to climb Mount Everest at that point. And, uh, went back to Nepal in 2016 to do that.
Passionistas: So talk about that. Talk about preparing for that and you know, and the mental preparation, especially.
Lisa: I learned a lot on Monte SL again, you know, success doesn't always mean you, you gain the most from a situation. And so I learned what my body was capable of. I knew that if I was healthy and trained, that I could be even stronger.
And so I, I started working with a sports psychologist to really dig into the mental aspects. I was still a little bit unsure about what my body could do, you know, I, I, and I had. Probably four more surgeries before I went to Everest for reconstruction. So I depended a lot on a sports psychologist to just help me understand why Everest was important to me, what my body was capable of.
To give me some really important tools that I use still today when things get difficult in the mountains to have something to focus on and to sort of rationalize what's going on around me and break it down into manageable chunks. So that was hugely helpful. I worked with a, a climbing coach as well to get me ready.
You know, it was a very tumultuous time in my life as I was preparing to climb the most difficult mountain that I had climbed to that point. I was in the middle of getting a divorce. I wasn't sure I wanted to keep working. My dog died. Like all these, just so many things happened and looking back. It felt like just a really big reset, like the universe sort of saying, like, you know, that was your life then before cancer, and this is your chance to find your life after cancer.
You know, that really is a big gift. I always think that cancer, I am grateful today in the moment I was not, but today I'm grateful for cancer because it showed me so many things about priorities and what life is about and how I want to spend it. I know that there's a book worth of conversation to be had, if not more about actually climbing Mount Everest, but kind of in general, what was the experience like?
Passionistas: What was the biggest challenge that you faced in, in the midst of that experience?
Lisa: Yeah, so climbing a big mountain, like Everest, I'll just provide a quick sort of background as to how it even. You know, it's, those mountains are so big, right? Your, your body could not possibly function. Even if you're breathing supplemental oxygen.
It's not as easy as just walking to base camp and then starting to climb. There's a whole process of a climatization. Where you start at one camp climb to the next highest camp and then return to that first camp. And then you repeat that process gradually moving up the mountain, and that allows your body to change physiologically, to build more red blood cells so that you can survive at those higher elevations.
And so for me on Everest as I was going through that process, I really felt in sync with the mountain in contrast to K2, which I'm sure we'll talk about in a little bit, but I really felt like things just went smoothly. I felt like the mountain and I were working together and that we sort of [00:23:00] shared a level of respect.
That, you know, ultimately ultimately allowed me to be successful, but that doesn't mean there weren't difficult moments. I recall climbing from camp three to camp four and it had been very, very windy. So, you know, hadn't slept at all the night before was lying in a very cramped tent. That was my side of the tent was actually can levered over the side of the mountain because it, you know, it was so steep.
And, you know, a lot of emotional, like, is it too windy? You know, are we gonna have a chance to summit? We need to descend. And then it's a very quick decision by our team to like, we look, it looks like we have a window. We're gonna go up. I had sort of envisioned like having this moment to like get ready.
And that was none of that. It was very rushed and harried and chaotic. And I, I walk out of the tent and I clip into the fixed rope with my, with my harness. and it was so incredibly windy that it kept blowing me over. And I remember these moments of just hearing the wind coming towards me from my left side, and then just lying face down on the ice to let it pass me by before I could continue.
And that luckily subsided after, I don't know, a couple of hours or something. And, and then. I got to what I knew was gonna be the easiest part of that day, which is sort of a flat section that curves to the left towards a rock feature called the yellow band. And the yellow band is about 25 degrees. So it's not super steep. It's limestone.
It would actually be fun to climb it at sea level, but as I'm walking towards it, I realize that I'm moving so slow and I'm actually. Like I get distracted by someone's glove, rolling down the ice. And my friend came up from behind me is like, what, you know, what do you what's going on? And I was like, I don't know.
I just, I just wanna like lay down and I had run out of oxygen. So my brain and my, my muscles were not getting the oxygen that they needed to continue. I had a couple, I had a decision to make, I had a few choices in that moment. I could have turned around and gone back to camp three and said, you know, my climbs over or looked for more oxygen.
I could have sat there in the snow and asked someone, probably a Sherpa to bring me more oxygen where I could have kept going. And. Those first two options just didn't feel right to me. And so I continued climbing. I will never forget. So climbing this relatively, you know, at sea level, easy section of rock and telling myself to just focus on the climber ahead of me and to never let him outta my sight, like just, he's not gonna get outta my site no matter what it takes.
And I don't know how long it took me. I, you know, everything got really fuzzy at that moment. And I was still safe. I still had people around me and people knew that I didn't have oxygen, but I, that made that situation made me realize that we are so much stronger mentally than we believe or that, that we give ourselves credit for, because my body was literally like, it didn't have the gas that needed to continue.
And it was just, I think my mind is pushing me, just willing myself forward to get through that situation. And the best feeling in the world. Like I hope nobody has to experience that, but I can't tell you how sweet it is to not have oxygen and have oxygen. Like, as soon as I got a fresh bottle, it was like, the world was right again.
So a challenging moment. But like I said, I think mountains teach us things and you know, it taught me that I sort of have this untapped tool in my, you know, mental capacity that I really. You know, even now I feel like there's so much more potential to hone that skill of being mentally strong.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you’re listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast in our interview with Lisa Thompson. To learn more about her adventures and get a copy of her book, “Finding Elevation,” visit Lisaclimbs.com.
We'd like to take a moment to share a special announce. We'll be hosting the third annual Power of Passionistas Summit, this September 21st through September 23rd, 2022. The three-day virtual event is focused on authentic conversations about diversity, equity and inclusion. This unique gathering of intersectional storytellers and panelists harnesses the power of our rich community of passionate thought leaders and activists to pose solutions to the problems plaguing women today.
Early bird tickets are on sale now at bit.ly/2022PowerofPassionistasTickets.
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Now here's more of our interview with Lisa.
That process of getting in tune with the mountain and going back and forth to the different camps. How long does that take?
Lisa: It takes about a month, maybe six weeks. It just depends on weather and how fast people are moving People climbing in sort of the standard style climbing, big mountains and 8,000 meter peaks. Usually it takes about six weeks to, to two months to, to do that. So it's a long time.
Passionistas: In 2017, you actually won an Emmy for something related to the Everest climb.
Lisa: Right? So we, so this is totally serendipitous. So the expedition leader is named Garrett Madison He had endeavored to capture our climb in virtual reality, you know, technology has changed a lot since 2016. And so the way we did it was to strap all these GoPros sort of in a sphere and then carry that on a wand up the mountain and thereby, you know, create this 360 degree view. Of our climb. And then later some very smart people stitched that together and actually made it a virtual reality film, which is called capturing Everest.
And, you know, I didn't know that was gonna happen when I signed up for that climb. There were, you know, a lot of. Sort of deals made and, and it just happened to be purchased by sports illustrated, um, and turned into this really cool documentary that later won an Emmy, not for my acting prowess, surprisingly, but for just the technology.
It was the first time that anyone had captured virtual reality footage in that kind of an environment. You can find it on the sports illustrated website and on their app. And it's really, it's really fun if even if you don't have a headset, you can watch it in 360-degree video with your phone. And I will tell you, it will make you dizzy.
Like even me having been there, it is very, very real to watch people, you know, climbing or walking across the ladder or climbing a steep part of, of the, the mountain. So I feel. You know, never in my life, if you've said like you could win an Emmy, I would like never thought that. So it was a really, really cool experience and cool to be able to just share that in a very tangible way, with cool technology, to people who, you know, may never endeavor to climb. But now get to have a little bit of a taste of what it's like.
Passionistas: So that same year in 2017, you, um, became the first all American women to summit K2. So how did that differ from climbing Mount Everest and what unique challenges did you face on that?
Lisa: Yeah. So it was 2017. I, I endeavored to go to K2 for the first time. My team actually fell apart. And so I didn't climb that mountain that year. I went back in 2018 and in 2017, the first American woman did summit. And I felt like, you know, I, I, this is still an important climb for me. It's something. I think being the first is very cool. I think not being the only is even cooler.
And so it was important to me to just sort of continue showing what women could do in the mountains. So K2 is the second highest mountain in the world. It's about 800 feet shorter than Mount Everest. K2 is in Pakistan. It's on the border between China and Pakistan. Most people, like if I'm at a dinner party and you know, someone finds out that I've climbed Everest, they get super excited and they wanna know what that's like, and I'll say, yeah, but I climbed this other mountain called K2, which is actually like really, really hard.
And they're like, yeah. But tell me about Everest. Did you see any dead people? So most people don't even know. You know, not even heard of K2, it's in a much more remote part of the world. For example, you know, the, the walk to Everest space camp is, you know, in a lovely valley, there are tea houses. There are commercial helicopters.
There is an emergency room at Everest space camp. There is none of that. In the Karakoram mountain range in Pakistan, you are farther from any kind of definitive medical care that you'll probably ever be in your life. And that, you know, would involve a Pakistani army helicopter ride to a small hospital in a remote village.
So it's, it's much more remote. The weather on K2 is also much more fickle. So it's, you know, known for just monster storms that sort of whip out of nowhere, dump a lot of snow. Cause avalanches. K2 is also steep from like the second you leave base camp. It is just unrelentingly steep and it is also known for a lot of rock fall.
So you can imagine that my family was super excited to hear about me. Deciding to climb this mountain, I had just, you know, beat cancer. My father was diagnosed with cancer when I was climbing Mount Everest and, and died about a month after I got home. And so I sort of promised him that K2 would be the last, really dangerous mountain that I climbed.
I was very determined to give it a go in 2018. And, and I was so fortunate that. Everything aligned, you know, the, I had a great team, the weather was decent and we were able to make it work. And, and, you know, and I mentioned earlier that I felt very in sync with Mount Everest and on K2. I felt every day like that mountain was trying to kill me, you know, in the form of rock falls in the form of other climbers dying.
I just never really felt like I was in sync with that mountain. And there was a moment where again, climbing steep rock much steeper than the rock I describe on Everest. It's a section of the route called the Black Pyramid and it's at 25,000. And so in this moment I'm wearing a down suit. I'm actually breathing bottled oxygen because the climbing is so difficult and I'm attached to a rope.
And that section of the mountain is sort of really like chunky, just unstable rock and there's snow and ice. And I wanted to quit. Like I wanted to just turn around. I fantasized about like reversing my direction on the rope and I thought I could be. Back at base camp in a couple of days, and I could get a helicopter to Islamabad and I could take a proper shower and like eat, you know, I'd really just let, like all the things my sports psychologist told me not to do.
I just really let that real like play out. I wanted to turn around and I remember, you know, from somewhere there was a voice in my head that said, is this all you were capable of? And I realized that it was not all that I was capable of, that I was, you know, I was frustrated and I was tired and I was mad at myself, but I was capable of more.
And so I kept just. Putting one hand above the other one foot above the other. And I knew that would be the hardest point in the mountain. And once I got past that, you know, the, the rocks were relented and it was more snow, which is my comfort zone, but there were many, many moments where I wanted to quit.
So then what did that moment feel like when you finally reached the. So I remember climbing. So a couple days after that scene that I described with the Black Pyramid and we attempted the summit and, you know, the night before the summit, you're sort of, you're laying, I was laying in a tent with two other men in the middle position wearing my down suit boots.
Like you don't really sleep. You just sort of lay there for a few hours, like waiting and breathing bottle oxygen. I had this sort of like checklist in my mind of like making sure that I had food in the right places, on my, down, in my down suit that I had like turned on my GPS device, like going through all those sort of pre-flight checklist things.
And then we, we left for the summit and it's dark out and I knew the climbing initially would not be. The steepest part. I knew it would be a little bit chill for a bit, and then it was gonna get steeper. And I had, you know, that sort of pre-flight checklist. I had put new batteries in my headlamp. And as I'm climbing, I realize that the batteries are about are dying.
They're dimmer than everyone else is. And I say, I'm fine. I have a, I have a spare set. It's close to my body. So they're not frozen. I stop, you know, with thick gloves, like fumble around, finally get the batteries in there. Good. Keep climbing, catch up with my team. And it happens again. And I don't have a spare and I can't expect anybody else to give me their spare.
They're sort of, you know, they're sort of ethic and climbing that. You need to be self-sufficient up there. You can't rely on anybody else. And so I remember screaming at the guy in front of me, Rob Smith, a fantastic guy from Ireland, and he gave me his spare batteries. You know, it's very delicate exchange, right?
If you can imagine we're in these thick gloves, we're on the side of a mountain, it's dark. And I just remember him like pushing that battery into the palm of my glove. And I remember thinking if you dropped this, that's it. The reason it was, I mean, obviously it was important to see, but we were about to cross, what's called the bottleneck traverse on K2, which is, you know, it's actually flat, but it's about, it's less than one boot width.
And so you're walking and there's like two miles of air beneath you. And so you cannot make a mistake there. You obviously cannot have compromised vision there. And so literally without Rob's help, I would not have. I wouldn't have made it. And that moment, you know, several hours later, I got to the summit and I remember it was it's light out now and I'm climbing by myself and it's, it's very, um, unconsolidated snow.
So I'm sort of take one step and, you know, I'm, I'm putting my boot print in other people's path. So there's a little sort of steps there and sometimes they would just break and you would just slide down and, you know, it's just incredibly frustrating and you exert a lot of energy. But I looked up and I saw where the snow met the horizon.
I saw bright colors and I thought, that's it. Like those are other peoples standing there at the summit. And more than anything, I wanted to cry in that moment. But I was like, do not cry. Like you you're not there yet. And just to sort of bring things full circle I had, after my father died, I had, you know, carried his ashes to like every mountain.
Sprinkle them on the top. And it was a very, you know, just peaceful sort of full circle moment to spread the last of his ashes on the summative K2, which is, you know, he never in his life could have imagined traveling to Pakistan. So it was fun to just sort of, not only to have him with me, but to be able to share that with him as well was really special.
Passionistas: What is the coming down like physically and emotionally?
Lisa: So, I'm glad you asked that question, Amy, because most people and I was very, very conscious of writing about this in my book because the summit is halfway like it is literally halfway and more mountaineering accidents occur on the dissent. Then then climbing up and that's because you're tired.
Many people push beyond what they're capable of. You're you know, just logistically you're facing away from the mountain. Oftentimes gravity is not working in your favor. And so the dissent to me is very. Harrowing like it's I very consciously at the top of, at any big mountain do not celebrate because it is, you're not done.
There is still a lot more work to do. And on K2 in particular, you know, we talked a little bit about like that moment on Everest, where I felt like I was sort of stepping into my own strength and on K2, I'm [00:41:00] descending, very steep ice face and. There are ropes there. And one rope is meant for climbers coming up.
There are still some climbers ascending, and the other rope is meant for climbers who are descending. Another climber had, uh, started to ascend the rope that I was about to use to go down. And I scream at him. You know, he's very, he's far down the slope. He can't hear me. He's just sort of laying there. And I sort of looked, my friend Garrett was next to me and he recommended that I descend. Using not the most secure technique, a, a technique arm wrapping where you wrap the rope around your arm and you, um, you're connected to that rope with a safety carabiner. It's locked, but you lean forward and just walk face first down the mountain. And I had done it many times, but, but I, it just didn't feel right.
To do it then. And I didn't even, I don't even know where this voice came from, but I just told him no, like I'm not, that's not how I'm gonna do that this today. And so I, you know, set up my repel device, which takes longer, is much safer, but you know, takes longer repel down to this man who's laying face first and the ice, not, he wasn't response, he was alive.
I could, you know, he was alive. He did survive by the way, just before I get too far in the story. But he wasn't responsive to my, you know, yelling at him, trying to get him to move. And so I had to execute this very, very delicate sequence of moving my gear, you know, establishing a safe anchor, moving my gear around him on what I know, because I, you know, study this mountain intimately is.
The place on that mountain where most people have died and thankfully it went well and he survived and, you know, I was able to continue, but that was a moment that, to me, that just underscores that [00:43:00] the dissent is so in some ways more important than the ascent in terms of difficulty. And that, that moment looking back, or I said to my friend, Garrett, like, that's not how I'm gonna do this today.
I really felt like was pivotal in terms of me, sort of, this is a man that I've climbed with for years. I've always trusted him. He knows my capability. And so for me to just, you know, take a different tact, I think was, you know, just more of me, like stepping into my own voice and strength in the mountains, which is a good feeling.
Passionistas: Can you compare for us the fear that you faced being diagnosed with cancer versus the fear you faced on a mountain like that?
Lisa: Knowing how dangerous it is and if those are different and if you have the same or different tools to deal with both. Yeah, that's an awesome question. They feel to me like somatically, they feel very different.
I feel like different kinds of fear. When I was diagnosed with cancer, I felt completely unprepared to deal with that scenario. It was not anything that I ever thought I would have to encounter or deal with in my life. And I felt out of control. I felt like, you know, my body was, had turned against me initially.
I, you know, before I had a team of people to support me, I felt alone. And without like a path or a, you know, a guide to get me through this situation. And luckily that changed and I found incredible healthcare. It felt much scarier to be diagnosed with cancer in the mountains. I feel like, you know, I have, I understand what I can control and I have the skills to get myself through it.
And I think fear for sure in the mountains. I, I believe that a little bit of fear is a good thing because I think that it keeps you focused. It keeps me alert to what's going on around me. If the weather's changing, if the route is changing, if. You know, someone climbing above me that doesn't look super safe, that little bit of fear sharpens my awareness too much fear.
I think in the mountains and in fighting cancer can be stifling. And I think it can actually, you know, sort of stop you from progressing. But that's a, a really important question because they, for me are very different flavors of fear.
Passionistas: So what's the next big challenge for you?
Lisa: Yeah. So we talked about it a little bit in the beginning. I don't endeavor. I don't have any desire to climb anything more challenging than K2 in my life, but I do wanna keep climbing and it's become more important to me to give back to the communities, particularly in Nepal and in Pakistan, where I have just learned so much about myself and gotten so much from them personally.
So I wanna, I wanna start to give back to those communities and in particular to the women who, who live in those communities. So along with some female mountaineering friends of mine, we were setting up a philanthropic climb for this fall to a mountain called Cholatse which is in, uh, Nepal. It's about 6,800 meters.
It will not be the hardest mountain we've ever climbed. But the point is that we just wanna show that anything is possible when women support one another in the mountains. And so to us, that means. That our team will be fully comprised of women. I don't know if that's ever happened before. I think there've been some all women's climbs that maybe had support from men, but, and not that we don't like men, but like we just wanna show that women can do everything in the mountains that a man can do.
And so we're building that team. We're super lucky to have a great, uh, Nepalese uh, climbing leader. Pasang Lama. She's helping us create a team of all women to, to cook, to carry loads, to plan, to do everything. And we just think it's an incredible sort of opportunity to raise some money for at least one, depending on how, how fundraising goes maybe more, but we want to.
We're soliciting input for Nepalese women who have some educational related goal in their life. So if they wanna learn a trade, if they wanna open a tea house, um, if they weren't wanna learn about economics, like we want to be able, we wanna be the catalyst that helps that woman learn those skills so that she can better not just her life.
But I think, you know, that sort of has this trickle-down effect and has the potential to positively impact generations. So. I'm, you know, just beyond excited to be a part of this team and we'll see where it goes. We'd love to do it, you know, multiple years, but we're all, you know, just we're dedicated and excited to, to climb with a purpose now.
Passionistas: So what inspired you to write your book "Finding Elevation"?
Lisa: I had always wanted to write, which I studied engineering in college, you know? I felt like I was very far away from that as, as an adult, but as a kid, I had a desire to write. And in my twenties, I tried out different topics. You know, none of them just sort of seemed to fit.
And then when I was diagnosed with cancer, I really relied on journaling to, to get me through that and to be this, you know, sort of outlet for everything that I was feeling. And. Probably two years of journaling, I sort of realized that there were a lot of things that I had encountered that seemed to translate to other people.
You know, that if I could share what I had learned, the hard way with another woman that maybe, you know, she would have an easier path than I did. And so it became really important for me to share. Um, and, and, you know, at the time I thought this will just be about cancer. And then as I continued to climb and I continued to learn more about myself and what I'm capable of and how to overcome obstacles, how to find your voice.
Most of that through K2, it, it just really turned into a much bigger project than just journaling. . What was the thing you learned about yourself from writing the book that maybe surprised you the. I think I learned a lot about my childhood when I was writing. Um, I, and I, you know, I spent a year studying memoir at the university of Washington, and I remember like my, there was nothing about my childhood in, in an early draft.
And my instructor was like, you can't leave that out. Like that's a part of, and I was like, yeah, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't super, like, it's kind of painful for me. I really don't wanna put it in here. Um, and of course it, you know, needs to be a more balanced story, et cetera, etcetera. And so by me sort of digging through that, I realized, you know, this sort of these traits that I have today and where they came from.
And there was a lot of therapy in there as well. And it made me realize that, you know, something that. Because I said, my parents, you know, were not very reliable. They weren't always around. And, and that made me a very independent person. Um, there's certainly some downsides to that, but I think there's, I think there's always a silver lining.
There's always some positive. Outcome, even of bad situations. And we often just have to look a little bit harder, like, you know, dig a little bit deeper to find them. But those I think are, you know, the real nuggets and like where, where we really learn why we are the way we are.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Lisa Thompson, to learn more about her adventures and get a copy of her book, finding elevation, visit LisaClimbs.com
Please visit ThePassionistasProject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your Passions. Double your first box when you sign up for a one year subscription. Remember to sign up for our mailing list, to get more information about the Power of Passionistas Summit at bit.ly/2022PowerofPassionistasTickets.
And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast, so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests. Until next time stay well and stay passionate.
Tuesday Jun 14, 2022
The Janes: They Defied the Law, the Church and the Mob
Tuesday Jun 14, 2022
Tuesday Jun 14, 2022
Tia Lessen and Emma Pildes are the directors of the new HBO documentary The Janes. Tia is an Oscar nominee for her work on HBO's Troubled the Water and Emma is an Emmy nominee for HBO's Jane Fonda in Five Acts.
Their new film, The Janes, tells a story of a group of unlikely outlaws, defying the state legislature that outlawed abortion, the Catholic church that condemned it and the Chicago mob that was profiting from it. The members of The Janes risked their personal and professional lives to help women in the pre-Roe versus Wade era, a time when abortion was a crime in most states and even circulating information about abortion was a felony in Illinois. The Janes provided low cost and free abortions to an estimated 11,000 women. A raid in which seven members of the collective were arrested, became the driving force for Roe vs. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion nationwide in 1973 and is inevitably going to be reversed in the United States in 2022.
Learn more about The Janes.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
The Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same.
We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and today we're talking with Tia lessen and Emma Pildes, the directors of the new HBO documentary "The Janes." Tia is an Oscar nominee for her work on HBO's "Troubled the Water" and Emma is an Emmy nominee for HBO's "Jane Fonda in Five Acts."
Their new film, "The Janes," tells a story of a group of unlikely outlaws, defying the state legislature that outlawed abortion, the Catholic church that condemned it and the Chicago mob that was profiting from it. The members of The Janes risked their personal and professional lives to help women in the pre-Roe versus Wade era, a time when abortion was a crime in most states and even circulating information about abortion was a felony in Illinois. The Janes provided low cost and free abortions to an estimated 11,000women. A raid in which seven members of the collective were arrested, became the driving force for Roe vs. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion nationwide in 1973 and is inevitably going to be reversed in the United States in 2022.
So please welcome to the show Tia Lessin and Emma Pildes.
We'd like to begin by asking you both what you're most passionate about. Let's start with you Emma.
Emma Pildes: My skillset when I'm good at what I've worked hard to be good at being a filmmaker to lift up stories like these in moments like these, to give a platform for in this case, these extraordinary women to testify about things that are important.
I'm passionate about using my powers for good. I think this is what I'm saying, but I mean, you know, that's it, we, we, there's so many things in this world that I can't do and I'm here and this is a path that I've chosen and I want to make something of it.
The Passionistas: What about you, Tia?
Tia Lessin: I'm passionate about storytelling. I'm passionate about democracy and passionate about my 11 year old son and living with. A good world in the future. I'm passionate about women's rights and racial justice and economic equality. I'm passionate about making pottery, which is something I do when I'm not making films and making dinner for my kid.
The Passionistas: Tell everybody who The Janes are.
Tia Lessin: The Janes are a group of infinitely resourceful women in the late sixties and early seventies. At a time when abortion was illegal and most of the country, they decided to challenge that they went underground. This was a group of pretty unlikely outlaws. They were college students and college dropouts and homemakers and clerical workers, and they knew that they wanted to use their resources and their time to save women's lives and to make safe and affordable abortions accessible to women in Chicago and actually women throughout the Midwest who flocked to them at that time who had few options when they wanted to end their pregnancies.
And one other thing I'll say is that they defied the Catholic church. They defied the Mob, they defied and invaded the Chicago police for many, many years and used all sorts of underground tactics and techniques. To build this sisterhood of care.
The Passionistas: What compelled you to make the film? Why tell this story now?
Emma Pildes: Three years after Roe became law of the [00:04:00] land, the Hyde amendment passed. They've been chipping away at abortion access and abortion care and reproductive justice from the get-go. So I suppose in some way, anywhere along the way in the last few years, this film would have been important and relevant.
It certainly switched into hyperdrive in 2016 when Trump got into office and immediately started packing the courts and his rhetoric was all over the place and ideologues were more and more in government and in the courts, it got scary in a new way. And Daniel Arcana, one of the other producers on the film started developing, daniel also happens to be my brother and we have a family connection to this story. So he sort of had this in his back pocket and it was pretty clear that now is the time I don't think he knew, or we knew as we came together quite how timely it was going to be. You know, I don't think we could have ever predicted that in the same month that we're premiering on HBO.
We are going to lose Roe. So I would not go so far as to say we got lucky with that, because that is certainly not the case. You know, we wanted to tell a historical tale because it seemed important.
And to give these women a voice and it seemed important that it was starting to become relevant, but never could we have imagined that it would be quite so relevant, but we're just grateful to have something to contribute to the conversation. And we feel really fortunate and humble to tell these women's story.
The Passionistas: Beyond the abortions themselves, what were the legal risks that The Janes were taking and what did you learn from talking to them the reasons that they felt it was so important to do what they were doing at the time?
Tia Lessin: Well, they were risking charges of abortion and conspiracy to commit abortion. Actually at that time, even advertising their services was a felony crime assisting a woman to get an abortion was a felony crime holding her hand during an abortion was a felony. So it wasn't just providing the service, the medical service. It was everything around it that could have landed them in prison and almost did, were it not for Roe.
So look, they were well aware of the potential consequences of their actions, not to mention the social stigmatization that they potentially faced from friends and family members, because at that time, it wasn't a socially acceptable thing and still to this day. So they were willing to risk all that professional loss, personal loss time in prison because they so believed that this was a moral obligation to stand up, to help make sure that women had this ability to control their own fates, to decide when and whether, and with whom to have children. And they were highly influenced by the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement and the student movement and the women's liberation movement, of course, where they had a righteous calling against racism and economic injustice and the killing of innocent people in the unjust war.
And I think all that experience gave them the grounding to do this political work. And it was work, not just taking a political stand, not just signing a petition, but actually doing this day in day out work to, to create this group of mutual aid.
The Passionistas: What were the advantages of this collective being an organization run almost completely by women?
Emma Pildes: I can't remember Katie's exact quote at the beginning of the film, but she's basically saying, because nobody pays any attention to us as women that, you know, really worked hard advantage in this instance.
And I think that's really true. I mean, they're so smart. They sort of utilize that as a superpower to be under the radar with this. I think there's probably a lot of things I think quite highly of women, what they're capable of and what their super powers. So there's quite a lot that they brought to the table from being mothers or not being mothers from not talking, but listening and all of those other movements, because they weren't sort of allowed to talk.
I mean, they probably soaked up quite a bit of knowledge. They're being marginalized and they picked that up and they brought that with them and they use that to their advantage. So these are brilliant moral human beings. That as Tia said were really willing to put it on the line to help other people in need, no matter what the consequence is and that bravery, I mean, I don't know that there's, that's, that's something extraordinary.
The Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast in our interview with Tia Lessin and Emma Pildes. qatch their documentary, "The Janes" on HBO and HBO. Max.
We'd like to take a moment to share a special announcement. We'll be hosting the third annual power of Passionistas summit this September 21st through September 23rd, 2022. And. The three-day virtual event is focused on authentic conversations about diversity, equity, and inclusion, this unique gathering of intersectional storytellers and panelists partisans, the power of our rich community, a passionate thought leaders and activists to pose solutions to the problems plaguing women today.
Early bird tickets go on sale on June 21st. To learn more, visit The Passionistas Project dot com backslash 2022 dash summit.
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Now here's more of our interview with Tia and Emma.
Abortion became legal in New York what were the effects on women of color or poor women even after that momentous event?
Tia Lessin: It was true then. And it's still true that when women have to cross state lines for legal abortions, certain women, certain people are left behind large groups of people.
People that can't afford to travel, they can't afford the cost of a plane ticket or a bus. And they don't have access to a car or take a gas, you know, or they don't have a place to put their children because many of these were already mothers looking to terminate, maybe the fourth or fifth or sixth pregnancy, or they didn't have the luxury of taking time off of work.
And so this was primarily low-income women and young women, disproportionally brown and black women who were stuck, you know, they were left behind. And their very best option. And it was quite a good one was to turn to Jane the worst option. People who didn't have the resourcefulness or the luck or the connections to find Jane turned to the mob or to back-alley abortionists or, and if they couldn't find that they may have self-inflicted some harm, they might've tried to self induce.
And a lot of those women have. In the septic abortion, where to cook county hospital, which is a dumping ground from all over Chicago, for women who presented with bleeding or injury from a induced abortion. And when they got there, they were interrogated by police who had done this to them. And if they were lucky enough to survive, you know, to live another day, that was great.
But many of them didn't, many of them work damaged beyond repair and too many. And just to be clear, this is for a very simple medical procedure. We're talking about a procedure that is commonplace one in four people of childbearing age with a uterus, have an abortion. And we're talking about a procedure that's safer than a colonoscopy and a tonsillectomy, and is far safer than childbirth.
They're not dying because there's anything inherently dangerous about the procedure they were dying because they couldn't get one safely in a clinic situation.
Emma Pildes: The amount of women that died and were injured up against how safe the procedure is makes you realize how little the practitioners out there at the time cared. That's a tough pill to swallow. Nobody should be dying from this procedure when you're in a country where the government is saying that they don't value women's lives. I guess that's not surprising how unscrupulous the people out there in the back alleys. Some were doctors that were in it for themselves who injured, murdered, sexually assaulted sterilized women.
It's just, just none of that has to be the case here. So, yes, it's a, it's an incredibly simple procedure that a group of young, some of them are 19 years old. We're able to take on and do safely just because they cared.
The Passionistas: What's the lesson that we can learn from the film in the midst of the current situation with Roe vs. Wade?
Tia Lessin: The remarkable thing about Roe vs. Wade is that it created federal protection for abortion. That means that every state had to subject career and other respect a woman's right to choose. And without Roe V Wade, as we see, you know, it's every woman for herself, your healthcare is dictated by your zip code and the state you live in and whether or not the people representing your state in the state legislature give a damn about women's autonomy and women's choice, or want to use that issue for politically.
So what's going to happen. What's clear. It's not a question of, if it's a question of when Roe V. Wade is overturned and it in this month is that large swaths of this country are gonna be without abortion care, like existed. pre-Roe only, in some ways there are much more punitive consequences for women and the providers who serve them.
People are subject to criminal prosecution. If they cross state lines for the spinach. Doctors potentially are subject to that prosecution for serving patients out of state. And everyday citizens are being incentivized with bounties to turn in their neighbors and friends and colleagues. If they suspect that person has had an abortion it's madness, none of those laws existed pre-Roe. In Ohio, there's a bill under consideration that prohibits abortion in cases of incest and rape, because the legislator who defended it says, you know, there's, there's always contraception in the case of rape and incest. Anyway. So in the context, I think we're [00:16:00] hoping that the story helps to pass on some of the lessons learned from that era and engage audiences in the fight.
The Passionistas: How did the Janes feel about what's happening right now?
Tia Lessin: Neither of us would put words in their mouth.
Emma Pildes: It's a dangerous thing to do.
Tia Lessin: They've been interviewed and they've been on stage when we've heard them enough to be able to say that they are in fighting shape. Look, 50 years ago is a long time, but they've moved on in their lives.
And many of them are in retirement and tending their gardens and their grandchildren. And Eleanor is in a quilting circle. And, you know, they're all doing their own thing. They are ready to fight. And they're using this film as a vehicle to do that. I mean, they're speaking out, they're speaking loudly, they're offering up whatever wisdom they've gained.
And they're also really very happy to pass the baton to the next generation of young people who really have to take this on and fight the fight. The stakes are very high and it involves their lives. So they're happy and mad as what I'd say.
The Passionistas: Do you think there'll be a new movement of Janes? Do you think there are already women out there who are coming together to be prepared to do this hard work?
Emma Pildes: Yeah, I think there's a lot of people coming together to do this hard work. I don't think we know exactly what form it's going to take. The conservative right. Has gotten very creative in the last 50 years, but we have to, you know, and we have the abortion pill now, which is a big leg up, you know? I mean, it's really, it's, it's a big difference.
We have the internet. That's a big difference probably for good and bad, but that's a big difference. So I think what's clear is that people care that was evident from the. I think that will people up a bit. I don't think it's enough yet. And what we hope to do with the film is to wake the sleeping giant of the majority.
You know, we don't have to change hearts and minds. We just have to remind people that they have to speak up. You know, all those things that Tia was just saying, that's a miscarriage of justice. That's a failing of our democracy. This, isn't just one issue. They're coming at us with this unrighteous moral high ground, and they're going to keep going, telling people how to live based on their beliefs.
So I don't think that's going to stand. I do agree with he, I think the ship has sailed. I think we are going to lose row, but I think people will come together. And the other side of the coin for us and making this. Yes. We were quite aware and have been for the last couple of years of the detailed reality of what this country looks like when women don't have a right to choose and how many people die and how many people are injured and all that.
But we are also steeped in this story of human trials. That the moral code of these women is part of the human condition too. So that's been very inspiring and I think there's an unfathomable amount of work to be done, but we can do it, but we got to take to the streets and open our wallets and do all the things necessary to make that happen. We can't rest on our laurels anymore.
The Passionistas: What's your dream for women?
Tia Lessin: Some days I'm very hopeful. So I think of the dreams and some days I just think of the nightmare that people are living in the U S has the highest incarceration rate in the world. There are millions of people in prison right now. There are millions of people sleeping on the streets every night in our country.
There are 30 million people. I just looked that up that don't have healthcare insurance that don't, that don't have access to. And now they're tens of millions of people who aren't going to have any say about whether and when, and with whom they're going to have children. So that's the nightmare part of it.
And that their access is determined by how much money they have in the pocket or what resources they can connect to. So I know the nightmare part of it. The dream would be that that all goes away. You know, that women, people with uteruses who want to have children can at the time they want to and have diapers for their babies when they're born and have baby formula or the ability to nurse and have good schools to send their children to, and the support they need, you know, the childcare support.
You know, and the economic support that they need to raise those children in loving homes with the resources that they need. And, and the, those people that do not wish to own a child, but want to be part of children's lives. Won't get stigmatized and can do that as well. So that's my dream is that women's professional and economic lives.
Aren't determined by whether or not we have. Our social status is not determined by whether or not we have children. And our economic status is not determined by whether or not we have children. That's the dream.
Emma Pildes: My dream for women, I guess, would be that they can fulfill their dreams. It's about feeling valued and equal and having bodily autonomy and not just stopping there. That's such a basic human, right. I feel like we've been fighting for basic human rights forever. So I guess my dream would be that we could stop talking about that and that we could thrive in all the other ways that we want to thrive. And fulfill our dreams and see it through to the, you know, to the next generation and not be damaged by male and female.
Unfortunately, lawmakers for generations, there's a lot of female generational trauma that comes from this kind of legislation. People lose mothers when they're very young and that changes their whole life and their children's lives. The ripple effect. It's very profound. So I wish we could stop talking about all this and stop having a fight for all of this and able to thrive.
The Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Tia Lessin and Emma Pildes. Watch their documentary, "The Janes," on HBO and HBO max, please visit The Passionistas Project.Com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Double your first box when you sign up for a one-year subscription.
And remember to sign up for our mailing list, to get more information about the Power of Passionistas summit.
And be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast, so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.
Until next time stay well and stay past.
Tuesday May 17, 2022
CinDiLo Inspires Women Over 50 to Embrace Midlife
Tuesday May 17, 2022
Tuesday May 17, 2022
After 25 years in law and academia assisting women during life transitions, such as divorce and reentering the workforce, CinDiLo created her own second act of writing and workshops for fellow Generation X women seeking to live their midlife with purpose and clarity through whentheclockstrikesmidlife.com. She recently published the easy-to-use weekly journal "When the Clock Strikes Midlife, It's Your Time to Shine," to inspire women to cultivate their midlife awakening with its interactive guided prompts and witty yet truthful perspective. CinDiLo has also started a new movement: #myfirsttimeover50, where she encourages women over 50 to try a new activity and ask the question: When was the last time you did something for the first time?
Learn more about CinDiLo.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And today we're talking with CinDiLo.
After 25 years in law and academia assisting women during life transitions, such as divorce and reentering the workforce, CinDi created her own second act of writing and workshops for fellow Generation X women seeking to live their midlife with purpose and clarity through whentheclockstrikesmidlife.com. She recently published the easy to use weekly journal "When the Clock Strikes Midlife, It's Your Time to Shine", to inspire women to cultivate their midlife awakening with its interactive guided prompts and witty yet truthful perspective.
CinDi has also started a new movement: #myfirsttimeover50, where she encourages women over 50 to try a new activity and ask the question: when was the last time you did something for the first time? So please welcome to the show, CinDiLo.
CinDi: Hello! Thank you for having me.
Passionistas: Oh, we're really excited to have you on the show. We've been using our guide and we love it, so we wanted to talk to you about it and your journey. What we want to start with is, what's the one thing you're most passionate about?
CinDi: I think overall it's growth. Not only growth myself, but others. Whether it's myself, my children, my loved ones, my friends, my BFFs on the internet, which I call my Cyber BFFs, and strangers. I always believe in growth and encouraging people to grow and learn about themselves in the world.
Passionistas: Why is that so important to you?
CinDi: Everything stems from childhood. Probably stagnant people around me, people that, you know, just don't have that mindset. They don't, you know, immediately you say, "here, try this..." "No!" You know, it's just an automatic shut down, shut themselves down and don't ever try anything.
Passionistas: Let's take a step back. You mentioned your childhood. Tell us a little bit about your childhood and what it was like.
CinDi: I was born with something called a TE fistula, which I like to mention the name because most people don't know about it, but people that do know about us saying, "oh." It's a birth defect where your esophagus isn't connected to your stomach.
I was lucky in the fact that that was my only birth defect. Many babies are born with a lot more issues that are a lot more severe along with that. And I was repaired in the hospital for the first year of my life back in the 1960s. I won't tell you when in the 1960s. But I was in a bed. And they would put injections in my thighs because I would get pneumonia laying in a hospital bed.
So they would treat that back then with penicillin shots or antibiotic shots in your muscles, which they don't do any more because it causes atrophy of the muscles. And so by the time I was a toddler, I pretty much couldn't bend either of my legs. And when I was four, I had my right leg operated on and I spent a whole summer in a cast. But I still had my left leg that didn't bend. Then I went through that way all through elementary school up until eighth grade. The summer between eighth grade and high school, I got my left leg opreated on. Again, spent the whole summer in a cast.
But I did everything. My parents never told me that I couldn't do anything, even though I had so many issues. I think I was their third spirited child. And because of what I went through, they kind of let me do whatever I want, as long as it wasn't too dangerous. So I rode a bike. I ran in gym, you know, I never sat out of gym or anything like that. I played dodgeball and got whacked in the head like everyone else.
So, you know, that didn't come without issues. You know, I was teased, especially in middle school. Some of the boys would tease me and were mean, but for the most part, I would say it wasn't on a regular basis and it was one or two boys. But in the meantime, again, it never deterred me from doing anything. I continued actually to go on, to be president of the school when I was in eighth grade.
Passionistas: Do you feel like that still impacts... these experiences you had as a child still impact the person you are today?
CinDi: Oh, of course. I think everything that happens to us now makes us who we are in this present moment. Yeah. I think it makes me more sympathetic and empathetic to a wide array of people. And maybe that is one of the reasons I'm more open-minded. And maybe that also is one of the reasons that I never let anything stop me and weren't really worried about what people think, because that seems to be a big thing with some people around. You know, just sometimes even the silliest things like, you know, make sure your hair is perfect for whatever it might be, make your bedroom, you know, like somebody is going to judge you if you don't make your bed that day.
Passionistas: So what inspired you to get into law and academia?
CinDi: I found myself, graduated high school, and I didn't have an idea in mind of what I wanted to do. I was the first person to go to college as far as my sisters and I. So long story short, I worked for a year in retail. I went to a seminar of a woman who did a little thing about being a paralegal and it really intrigued me.
I went on to become a paralegal and get my degree, which back then, in the 1990s, mid nineties, nobody had... not that nobody had paralegal degree, but it wasn't needed really. You know, all you have to do is have some experience working in a law office and they'll throw you to the trenches and teach you what they want to teach you.
So I did that. And then of course, me being me, by the year 2000, I created a website called njparalegal.com because, at the time, there was legislation going on in my state of what was going to happen with paralegals. Were we going to be licensed or not licensed? And many of us wanted and want to be licensed. It's still not licensed anywhere in any state in the United States, but it is more regulated. And education is more of a priority for employers now, which elevates the industry.
Passionistas: And how did you come to focus kind of on women's issues and helping women through transitions?
CinDi: That's another thing that in hindsight, I don't know if you ever got to a place and I think midlife might be this place where you kind of look back on all of the things you did and you start noticing a thread or a pattern. And one thing I even noticed, again, going back to childhood is I was a connector and a networker back then. I created clubs, when I was like eight years old. I had like a cat club. Then I told you I was president in eighth grade.
That continued, you know, when I became a paralegal. I always have, whether it was school or work or even mommyhood, I've always gotten involved in groups of women. We still have a group of women... we're friends for 26 years. We were all new moms. We started with 10 moms and grew to 30 children. And we still try to get together once a year, even though we're in different states. Maybe it's from growing up with all, you know, all girls, but I always thrived in women's circles. Ironically, I have two sons, so I've learned a lot about living with all men. For some reason, that's something I've always been drawn to. And again, I noticed that pattern later in life.
Passionistas: So you've told us that you had a midlife crash when you were around 45. So tell us what happened and what personal changes you made during that time period.
CinDi: Like I said, I don't consider it a crisis. For whatever reason, I don't like the word crisis, but the word crash. Because it was just what I call again, that Jerry Maguire moment where I was just like, enough is enough. Something's gotta give. And I think I just named three movies all in... One in a row.
I was just at a point in my life where my children were probably the most active they were and couldn't drive themselves yet anywhere. So they were at an active stage in school and probably at some point starting to work. And my mother had just passed, I believe. And soon after that, my father became ill.
And on top of it, as luck would have it, I worked for a woman who was really worst employer I ever had. She was just, you know, a very difficult personality and everything just kind of... Oh, and by the way, at this time too, I decided to go back and complete my bachelor's degree because I never finished that back in my twenties. So anyhow, that was all going on. And it was just a really, really difficult moment.
And... I apologize, my mom did not pass away yet. This was the crash. The crash was my mom was actually dying and I had to leave. And they all knew this, but in the meantime, I drafted an email telling them what I was working on, I had it covered. I covered all the bases and my boss's reply back was "I need it now." And she claims she didn't mean that for me, but whatever. It was just one of those aha moments where I was like, nothing is worth this. And I didn't quit my job that day, obviously.
But soon after it, you know, once I got back into the swing of things, I eventually found a new job and, you know, and I never, knock on wood, I never worked for anybody like again. And I've been very fortunate since. And I've been trying to, uh, I guess, make better choices and just... you know, sometimes we're all just stuck in certain places that we didn't mean to be in, but we just got there. So that was, it was just a terrible, terrible time. It was really difficult.
And when I look back the entire time from when my mom was sick, until then she passed and my dad was sick and then he passed. That was a decade. And that was hard. I mean, it was, again, my sisters and I still talk about that and it's, again, one of those things where you turn around, and you're like, "I have no idea how I did that. I have no idea how I got through it, how I still took care of everyone."
So that's the other thing. I realized I'm taking care of everyone and not taking care of myself, which I think women do in general. And I also think at this point in life, you get to the stage where I can't do this anymore. You know, I took care of everyone all this time.
So it was just all around. One of those aha moments I needed. Something needed to change and it had to start with me because everybody else is just continuing to do what they did and I allowed it. You know, so everybody else had to kind of step up and realize what I was doing and they did. But you know, sometimes everybody needs an adjustment, including you.
Passionistas: So what adjustments did you make besides getting a new job and how do you today take care of yourself?
CinDi: I had to have a serious conversation with my husband, who's great and helps a lot and does a lot. But again, it was a really busy time and he is also a glutton for punishment, like me. And he always did coaching. And he couldn't just coach. He had to be like president of the football team... of the football organization. So we're both like that, which can be commendable, but it's typical. And you know, I also always wanted to be involved in my child's education and the community and the school things. And, you know, it was hard. I tried my best and that's all we can do.
So my husband got on board. You know, my kids were pretty good again as well, but I had to just remind them of everything I was doing and everything. And, you know, when you can, you need to try to help yourself or call dad. And it got to the point, before my dad passed, the last two years especially, where my sisters and I all were just running ragged. And we tried to balance that out as well, too, especially with one sister out of state.
It's communication with yourself and everybody else in your life of what you need. And sometimes you don't even know what you need and that evolves too. But the biggest thing at that moment was really, I think, making everybody aware of what's going on. Because I don't think they see it and nor maybe do I see it either. You know, we're sometimes consumed in our own lives and everything we have to do when we don't know what somebody else is doing or going through internally or all the things that they juggle on a day.
So now the way I care for myself is easier. So we moved after my youngest son went to college. We were in the Northeast and my youngest son went to college that came down to South Carolina and we knew we were eventually coming down here. So he knew the area. And I think even though initially he was far from home, he felt comfortable because he knew the area already. And also knowing we would eventually be down here.
So lo and behold, after the real estate market opened up, finally, we got down here about a year later than we expected, but that's fine. I think everything happens for a reason. And here we are. So we are 600 miles south. And so that has afforded me to live a little bit of an easier life, as far as I don't have to work full time. I do have a part-time job that I really enjoy. Ironically, pretty much all of us in the office have New Jersey roots, so that was fortunate there as far as, you know, feeling comfortable and feeling at home.
I will also confess I'm not a morning person. So I picked my hours, which are 12 to 5. So, you know, I still get up in the morning. I have a puppy now. Well, she's not a puppy anymore, but I have a dog and we go to the beach and take walks in the morning or we go for coffee and she's my little buddy. And I'm just that type of person: I need at least an hour where nobody talks to me in the morning. Honestly, it might sound silly, but that makes me a much happier person and not that rushing, rushing, rushing.
And you know, in between mornings and nights and weekends, I fill in with my blog and my book and my... all the other things that I do. That to me is still a --luckily-- a passion of mine. So I don't look at that as working. I enjoy doing it. You know, some people don't get that. They're like, "oh, you're working on your blog again." Or, "oh, it's Saturday." I don't look at it that way. I look forward to doing it, believe it or not.
So my life has really improved where I was able to create more of what I love in my life. And then sharing that and encouraging other women to do that was really important to me because it's true. I feel like I needed, and a lot of other women need, basically a free pass to tell them that they can do what they want or that they can create the life that they want. And granted it's much easier for some than others, but to a certain extent, we need to try to do that for ourselves, even if it's just feeling a little bit of time here and there.
Oh, I forgot. The biggest thing I went back to and what I changed in my life was I went back to writing. I went back to my first love and I never realized what an outlet that was for me, because I stopped my personal writing. I still did some writing as a paralegal and also on my paralegal blog, but that was more technical and industry related and it wasn't personal writing. So that is really what I think got me out of my midlife crash slump at the time. It was definitely one of the things that really, really helped me. And again, going back to things I loved as a child.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and you're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with CinDiLo. To read her blog, find out about her workshops for Gen X women and get a copy of the weekly journal "When the Clock Strikes Midlife, It's Your Time to Shine", visit whentheclockstrikesmidlife.com. And follow CinDi on Instagram @whentheclockstrikesmidlife to share your hashtag #forthefirsttimeover50 adventures.
If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us to continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting thepassionistasproject.com/podcast and clicking on the patron button. Even $5 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions. Now here's more of our interview with CinDi.
Let's talk about you going out and sharing this with other women. You started The Midlife on Purpose planner. So tell us what that is and why you created it.
CinDi: Okay. Yeah. So again, it's a tool to encourage women to do different things, to think outside the box, and actually even plan what you're going to do. I'm not saying that you need to plan every moment of your life, but sometimes, and I'm still a perfect example of this, I forget to have fun and to plan things that I've been meaning to do for the past three years.
You know, I live here and there was, of course you have so many things you're going to do when you do something new. And I've done some, but there are still, you know, some things that aren't even, you know, far away. Or I just say, oh, I'm going to do a day trip here, or I'm going to go to the zoo or a museum and, you know, some things I still haven't gotten to. And that's okay, but it's just a little bit of encouragement.
And then I found that women really loved it during 2020, as you can imagine. And then we all had to, and I tried to get a little bit more creative in the calendar because okay, now we have to rethink things a little bit. And even though most of the time, the things I suggest are a lot of outdoors-y things, which hopefully a lot of us were able to do during 2020. Since we couldn't do much of anything else, you're either indoors or outdoors. But I tried to get a little bit more creative with doing things or suggesting, you know, a zoom party or... you know, we were all trying new things back then. Which was actually great in certain ways. We really had to rethink a lot of things. And I also think that was a halt for the universe well, the planet, I should say for all of us to step back.
Again, and I know this has been said before, about what's really important. Creating the life that we want, many people are finding working from home is a much better quality of life. My sister had that one hour commute each way in New Jersey traffic. And I know California is the same way and they're really enjoying working from home and have a better quality of life. So I think that's something we all need to rethink as, as a planet.
Passionistas: So tell us about whentheclockstrikesmidlife.com and what inspired you to start that?
CinDi: So I was turning 50 in 2018 and I just, I don't know, I'm always sort of researching and even on social media, certain things catch my eye. And I noticed this woman wrote, I think she eventually wrote a book about it, but she did 50 things for turning 50. So that got my wheels turning, and I didn't necessarily want to do that, but I also, again, went back to something from my childhood, which is, "my name is Cindy, not Cynthia." But I have a cousin and sometimes my sisters would call me Cinderella or CinDi-lla.
So I started jotting-- I still have my notes somewhere-- "Cinderella Turns 50." And I was trying to think, and I'm not really a Disney princess person, but first I just want to parlay it into something like that. And then I don't even know how my brain works. I was trying to think of themes for Cinderella. And then "When the Clock Strikes Midlife" just came to my brain, and of course the first thing I did was Google it and see if anybody had it and all that.
So that got me going and that got me excited. I knew I wanted to start a blog. So that's kind of why I was brainstorming. And I had the name and I had already jotted some things down. The first thing I wrote about was my mid-life crash because I wanted to talk about that. And I knew I couldn't have been the only one that felt that way at that age.
A lot of people don't think of 50 as midlife or middle aged, but I think we do as Generation X or it's, I think, more of a stage than anything. So if your children are leaving the nest, when you're 42 or they're leaving when you're 62, that's one of the times you, I think, feel that. As well as a lot of other life changes, you know, losing your parents or going through a relationship change or career change, whatever it might be. We get to that point somewhere between 40 and 60, where we have to make a shift, or we feel like whether we wanted the shift or not, something happened to kind of make that change.
And I think that it's amazing that I feel that our generation is really changing the changes. Not only all the women we see at the political arena and celebrities and the corporate arena, authors and you two wonderful women, you know, in entertainment and everything. I mean, you name it. We really are shining these past few years and I think that's only going to become more, I know that women entrepreneurs are starting more businesses than any other group combined over the past two years.
So I just feel that it's just a thing. And somehow I feel sort of the proudest altogether, but it's almost like build it and they will come. And I feel like that happened with our generation and this point in our life because a few years ago I had somebody tell me, also another entrepreneurial woman, but in a completely different industry. And she was like, first of all, I don't like the name midlife. Second, I don't see that many midlife women doing anything. And I'm like, "well, where have you been?" You know, I don't know what you do. But perhaps, because that is my quote unquote industry or my genre or my arena, I feel like we're everywhere and, and we're doing it.
We are changing careers. We are excelling our careers. We are starting new adventures, getting degrees, going back to school, you name it, you know, more and more of us are doing it. I'm not saying it hasn't been done in the past, but I feel like there's definitely a larger percentage of us doing it and really, you know, not making any excuses and leaning on each other and getting encouragement from each other. Even if you don't necessarily know someone, you would just be inspired by someone who has done something and you think, "Hey, I can do that." Or "That's really cool." You know?
Passionistas: So what do you help women take away from reading your blog?
CinDi: Well, first and foremost, that they're not alone. And some of the thoughts that they have had, or the things that they have gone through, you know, other people have gone through. Well, at least I know I've gone through. And again, little bits of encouragement. That's how I started with my quotes. In my blog, I would always input little pieces of encouragement, which actually many I pulled out of my old writings from when I was young.
They're not alone, encouragement ,and just finding ways to create a life that you want, even though, you know, nobody's life is ever going to be ideal. But if you can imagine certain things in your life that really bring you joy, doesn't have to be a lot of things. It doesn't have to be expensive. It doesn't have to take a lot of time, but whatever they are, it really, really fulfills you. And it makes such a difference in your life and bringing some of your joy, fulfillment and power back.
Passionistas: So tell us a bit about the workshops that you do with Gen X women.
CinDi: Okay, well, thanks to 2020, I haven't done one in a while. Actually, right before COVID I did a vision board workshop, in-person and then I did a virtual one. So yeah. So one of the things that I do is a vision board workshop, and I've always loved vision boards. When I first learned about them, probably close to 10 years ago, and again, this was all part of my midlife awakening and learning new things and doing things to grow. And at the time I was going to yoga, which I'm limited with my physical abilities, but I always just do what I can. And I still love yoga more for the relaxation part of it.
So, they were having a vision board, you know, class one day. And I went to the vision board class and I fell in love with that. And I've been doing them ever since. The other thing that I really loved and I haven't done a course on yet, but I'm working on a few things is... For the beginning of the year, I love Word of the Year. And I've been doing that since 2018, as well, when I started my blog and I really, really loved that idea. I haven't done, as I said, any workshops in a few years, and I do want to get back into that. And there are a few things I'm thinking of and need to work on that and hone in on topics.
I want to take survey topics. And the few surveys I have done, the number one topic women our age always want is stress busters. Their biggest thing is stress. So that is something that I definitely would like to work on, but I need to structure.
When I first moved here, it was almost like a honeymoon, you know. Neither one of us worked or did anything for six weeks. And we were still an empty nest at that point before the 2020 hit and we had one back in the nest. So, you know, we first moved down here... you know, I just felt so free and relaxed. You know, we were going to the beach, going out to dinner and it was lovely. And now that, you know, life happens again and you just start getting involved in life again. And just recently, I was like, okay, we're here two and a half years, I think I need a vacation.
So somehow it creeps back in, but you have to try to do the best you can to manage it. But I also think it's part of living life. For most women like us, I think that we are blessed to be busy and stress with things, for the most part, that we're creating. And we are hopefully enjoying and doing work that we love and with people that we love. So, it's a catch 22.
And you know how sometimes they say change your language. You know, don't say I have to go to work, I get to go to work. So a lot of that is mindset as well.
Passionistas: So while we're on the subject of stress, tell us about your Facebook group Let's Distress, Gen X.
CinDi: Funny that you said that because just a few days ago, I actually closed that group, but I'm doing everything on the main page now. Because I was trying to post them to many places, as you can imagine. It was just, I was trying to do social media, and there wasn't actually that much interaction. So I decided to just put it on the main page. Which I knew that at least there was some interaction there and I had the decent amount of followers involved.
So yeah. So what I'm working on in 2020, as far as the mission of whentheclockstrikesmidlife.com and its platform is midlife, wellness, mind, body, and soul. So every day during the week, I try to post something, it might be a blog, or it just might be, you know, an inspirational quote or a product or a book, um, something that is going to help us. Mind, body or soul, it's going to nourish you in one way or the other and hopefully get some value out of it.
I know if I recommend certain things like a book or, um, even something as silly as a water bottle sometimes. I'm not saying I'm becoming the new Oprah, but, you know, I do feel that people respond to that. And once they get to know you and like you and your work, they are more responsive to that. So I enjoy doing that. Again, I've always been a connector. And I found too, you know, my friends are that way with me. I, you know, I think for whatever reason, people believe what I say or they appreciate my point of view, I guess.
So. Yeah. So that's a work in progress, but that's what I'm focusing on for 2022. And you know how it is. You're always pivoting and figuring out what works, and on top of that, what you're enjoying doing. Sometimes you try something and it's not working, or you're not really enjoying it. So you have to pivot the other way.
Passionistas: So what inspired you to pivot and write your weekly journal When the Clock Strikes Midlife, It's Your Time to Shine?
CinDi: Over time, you know, more recently, of course, some of my friends were like, "when are you going to put these quotes in a book?" So what I started to do was... Actually before I even started the blog, and you two know this because I did The Passionistas Summit and did a recording, but I've always been secretive about my work. So I didn't write for 25 years. And then when I did, I was still wanting to be secretive about it.
So the way I encouraged myself to do it was I went back to my writings from 20, 25 years ago, some of them even longer. I wrote some short stories and things, or even poems. And some of the things I just, I thought to myself, well, I'm not going to write a book or a novel today. So let me just take some of these lines and make them into quotes because I think some of them are cute and they're good. And they're inspiring.
And again, I was starting to think along the lines of eventually starting a blog. So what I did was I took some of the quotes and I took some of my nature photos. And I put an app on my phone and I took the quotes and I put them on the photo and I created what they call quota-graphs, which I did not create that word, but it is a word.
And that's how I started. And I started posting them on my personal Facebook page and, you know, friends and family were like, "oh my God, you wrote this," you know, and that kind of thing. So that gives you a little bit of encouragement. And then eventually, within that year, less than a year by November, I started the blog, but that was kind of how I came out to my writing career and decided to share it.
Then when I started the blog, I started putting these little quotes, original quotes, in my blog that had to do with whatever my blog post was about at that time. And people seem to really appreciate them. And I also use the quotes on social media to promote the blog post and things like that. So people got to really like them. And 2020 was really, of course, one of the years where I was like, okay. And as many of us have said, the universe all gave us a stop sign and it's like, okay, are you going to do this now? Or when are you going to do this? So I decided to try to figure it out. And I put it all together. I hired someone through Fiverr to format it and put all the information together. I sent it to her. After a few back and forths in editing, we had a format.
The other thing is I used to meet friends through my children. Now I meet them through my dog. So I made a friend at the dog park. And we were talking one day and I was telling her that I was putting... actually, I think she showed me. And it's just funny how sometimes you don't know people that well. And we started talking and I think she must've told me or showed me something that she drew. And I was like, wow. I said, I need a cover. I'm writing a journal. And all I said was, I like the work, the art of Henri Matisse, a French artist from probably close to 100 years ago.
And you know, one of my quotes that is somewhat famous that people really like is, "Be a starfish and find a way to regrow." And that's kind of like my motto, again, through growth, and for my life and midlife is always try to grow no matter what life throws at you. So she didn't say anything. And about a week later, she showed me the cover that you're looking at, that you have now, just the way it is, except for I had her add by CinDiLo at the bottom.
I'm like, oh, my God. She's like, "well, I don't know if you'll like it." So I absolutely loved it. And she's the one actually who suggested the black background, which I wasn't sure about at first, because you read all these things on the internet, like no black books or no white books. And anyway, long story short, it was a hit. People really love it. And I really love it, for the most part. It really... you know, if you notice her hair is actually ocean waves and she has a starfish earring on. And, you know, but simple and we just have the little gold bling just to schnazz it up a little bit. It was just one of those things. And I love when that happens, you know, serendipity and something just came together.
And we've actually become good friends since then. And she was there for launch and I just loved the way it just seemed to all come together. Even though there was a lot of frustrations with formatting and you know how that stuff goes. It's sometimes more frustrating than you think. And then getting it on Amazon is another challenge, but it all got done. It all got done by November of 2021. Then I was able to launch it on 11/11. So yeah. So there we are. So I'm really happy with that.
And the feedback that I'm getting is, you know, they really love it. As you've mentioned before, too, is, whether it's the 30 seconds or the 30 minutes, I kind of give you quick prompts. And you can do with it what you like without it being too daunting, because I know some people think," oh my God, I don't have time to color and write and all this stuff." So people make it what they want.
Passionistas: So is there one particular lesson that you've learned along your journey that really sticks with you?
CinDi: The word that's coming to me is flexibility. But that word, sometimes it has a negative connotation, and I don't mean it in that way. And I think it's served me well. And I think because of what I've been through in my childhood, and I think also being the third child, I just learned that. And while I think it may at times, and when I was younger, I used to think that that was not a good trait to have. I think now that I'm older, it's my sanity.
Because as you know, when we talk... go back to talking about stress, a lot of stress, and I do this to myself, you know. As I say, a lot of stress, all stress is really in our minds, and we are always thinking about it or getting anxious about the stress. So flexibility, especially at this stage is allowing me to say, "okay, this didn't work this way, so we're going to go this way." Or I'm really feeling now that things happen for a reason and that life will guide. You know, you can't control everything. So life will guide you. If you have some faith, be flexible.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with CinDiLo. To read her blog, find out about her workshops for Gen X women and get a copy of the weekly journal "When the Clock Strikes Midlife, It's Your Time to Shine," visit whentheclockstrikesmidlife.com, and follow her on Instagram @whentheclockstrikesmidlife to share your #myfirsttimeover50 adventure.
Please visit thepassionistasproject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription using the code SUMMERGOODIES.
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Tuesday May 03, 2022
Tara McCann Helps Women Use the Power of Their Cycles for a Better Life
Tuesday May 03, 2022
Tuesday May 03, 2022
Tara McCann is a menstrual health coach. Her mission is to help women use the power of their menstrual cycles to tune into what their bodies need. Tara guides women to identify patterns in their menstrual cycles and helps them find ways to support their health. Her goal is for women to live in the flow of their hormones and to stop fighting with the natural functions of their bodies.
Learn more about Tara.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Tara McCann, a menstrual health coach who helps women use the power of their menstrual cycles to tune into what their bodies need.
Tara guides women to identify patterns in their menstrual cycles, and find ways to support their health so they live in the flow of their hormones and stop fighting with their bodies.
So please welcome to the show, Tara McCann.
This is such an important topic that no one ever talks about. And we're so grateful that you are joining us today to educate us a little bit and to help us spread the word about something that's so important for women.
Tara: It is, and it really isn't talked about very much. And that's one of the things when I do speak on this, women come up to me and I'm like, "why was I never taught this as a child? Why have I, you know, I'm 45 years old and no one ever told me this was happening in my body." And so I think it is valuable information.
I think it's been missing from our growth and development and education, and I am on a mission to teach people all of the things.
Passionistas: So what's the one thing you're most passionate about?
Tara: You know, I think the biggest thing that I'm passionate about is women shifting from just enduring their menstrual cycle to really understanding and knowing themselves in a very different way through their menstrual cycle.
It's the space where we tap into our intuition. It's where we are powerful in our wisdom. It's our creative force and power in the world. And for so many of us, we are taught the exact opposite of that. And so really, what I'm passionate about, is telling women about this and watching their growth as they start to understand that.
I love women coming through my programs and be like, "oh my God, look what I just did!" And, "I understand this. I understand why I've done this for years." And then they can give themselves grace. They can give themselves understanding, and then they just start to move through the world differently. They're not fighting with themselves anymore. And so I just love supporting women through that transition.
Passionistas: So, what was your childhood like? And was this something that you were comfortable talking about with your parents at a young age?
Tara: No, not at all. So I probably had a very similar experience to you. Like I think it was fifth grade that they separated the boys and the girls. And the girls went with the nurse and the boys went, I don't know who they went with, but you know, the nurse basically explained, "you're going to have your period, and you're going to bleed and then it's going to hurt. And here's a pad and here's a pamphlet from this, you know, maker of products that is going to tell you all about it."
And then that's basically it. And I don't remember having conversations with my mom about it. Definitely not my dad, like that was, you know, not going to talk to him about it for sure. But I don't remember having conversations with my mother about it, like other than, "Hey, I need more tampons" or "Hey, can you go get me some more medicine to take care of my period pain." But there wasn't a lot of conversation about what was going on in my body, how things changed through the month, how it was going to feel. And I think part of it is she was never taught. It wasn't something she was taught. So it was not something she taught me. It was not a conversation we had.
And so I had that one experience in school. For me, like my first period, I was so excited. I was like, "oh my God, I'm a woman." And I just had this feeling of belonging to something bigger than myself and that finally I was part of the club or something. It was... and I remember feeling that. But then, as it progressed, it was like, "oh, you're not supposed to feel that way. It's painful." And you know, all the magazines I read as a kid were like, "take this medicine because it's so painful and here's your perfect pad for the blue liquid we pour on it." And you know, all of this messaging from around me and, you know, people teasing you about, "well, what are you on the rag?" And so you want to hide it and the shame and just all those things started piling on.
So that initial power and excitement and that feeling I had was just kind of piled on. And it went away and it was hidden for a really long time because I didn't want to talk about it. I was like, "oh no, we don't talk about this. Okay. I can do that." So yeah, that was my early experience with this. And I think that's true for a lot of women in the world.
Passionistas: So, you said you didn't start to understand some of the stuff until you were in your forties. So then what was your early career or were you a full-time mom back then? Or what was your earlier years like between, you know, high school and the time you started working with fertility information?
Tara: So, you know, I, had my cycle and it was fine. And it was like, I take the Advil for the pain and, and then I just have my cycle and no, I don't like it. And it's a mess. And, you know, just kind of those general feelings of it's something I have to put up with. I didn't have the experience of having really horrific period pain or really heavy flow. It was just... it was there for me. And, you know, it was kind of a nuisance, but not really a nuisance.
I didn't have super strong feelings about. But what really started me on this path was my husband and I started having a family, you know, decided to have a family. And in my experience with my cycle, I had always been really regular. And I was healthy. My husband was healthy. I'm like, "oh, we're going to get pregnant, you know, we'll be pregnant in months. You know, just a few months and we'll be pregnant." And months turned into a year, turned into two years, turned into two and a half years and reproductive medicine.
But during that time I found menstrual cycle tracking through a book called "Taking Charge of Your Fertility." And so I started paying really close attention to my cycle in the aspect of fertility. Like when am I going to ovulate? And when is the best time that we could get pregnant and just riding that rollercoaster of, okay, "we got to get geared up, you know, I'm going to ovulate soon." And so " we had to go have sex and we gotta be prepared for this." And then that two week wait of just sitting there, like, "am I pregnant? What does that twinge." Or "wait, wait, I don't know what that is." And then that devastating crash when your period comes, like just that utter crash. That like, "oh my gosh, what is wrong with me? Why am I broken? Why can everyone else in the world get pregnant and I cannot?" You know, what's going on? But also having to switch gears really fast, cause guess what? You're going to ovulate again really soon and you've got to get going again.
And so it's just this up and down and up and down. And, so that was really challenging. But through that, and through my tracking, I really came to understand my cycle well. And I'm a scientist by nature, and I'm trained as an occupational therapist, so I had worked in occupational therapy for a really long time. So I have a science background and have always been fascinated by the human body and the amazing things that the human body can do.
And so I really dug into this. Learning about my cycle and learning what was going on for my body. I knew I didn't have enough progesterone in my cycle, basically. And I had worked with acupuncturists and I had changed what I was eating all through this fertility journey. And we were in reproductive medicine and we were doing intrauterine insemination. And we had come to the last one we were going to do. The next time we tried something, it was going to be IVF.
And so in that moment, you know, you're sitting there on the crinkly seat, waiting for your insemination, with the freezing cold room. I don't know why the rooms can't be warmer, you know, shivering in your little thing that doesn't cover your back. And I asked for progesterone. In my mind, I was like, "this is our last chance to try this." And I know this is what my body needs. And so the tracking for me really became that supportive piece that I could advocate for myself. I knew my body and I trusted what I knew about my body. I trusted what the tracking had taught me about my body. And so I said, "can we add progesterone to my regimen this cycle?"
And my doctor was like, well, he had already shoved off my charts before. He's like, "I don't need those. I don't need to look at those." Which in his world, he doesn't because he's controlling the situation, right? And that's what that reproductive medicine specialty is about. He's like, "well, I don't think it's going to hurt, but I don't think it's going to help either." He wasn't, "no, you can't do that." But I didn't feel like he was like completely on board with it. But I asked.
And I got the progesterone and I got pregnant and we had a baby 10 months later. So, you know, that was what I needed. And so that was really what started this journey with tracking for me. And then my two girls were born pretty close together. And so I had been pregnant or breastfeeding or trying to be pregnant for four or five years. And my health was not great after all of that.
And so I went to a health coach and found a health coach for my own health and was like, this is really what I wanted. I wanted this support when I was trying to get pregnant. Like I wanted somebody there every week who I could talk to about what was going on in my own body and who was going to help me. Because I knew my body could do more, but I didn't know what to do at the time. And so I was just trying to Google everything and throw all of it at it. Not hardly having tons of guidance. So I went to coaching school and my first jump into coaching was fertility coaching and helping preconception coaching, you know, people getting ready for pregnancy.
And then a couple of years ago, I started talking in the mom-owned business networking group. I started talking about cycles and how you can use your menstrual cycle to be more productive in your business. And women just started coming to me and like," why did I never hear this information before?" And so that really spurred me to broaden my message to menstrual cycles in all ways. And not just fertility though, I still do fertility work and it's very near and dear to my heart. But just also talking in the broader realm of menstrual cycle.
Passionistas: Talk more about that concept that tracking your cycles can help you with productivity.
Tara: In our menstrual cycles, our hormones shift and change every single day. So there's this, you know, big ups and downs that are happening. And we have grown up in a society where we think we get up in the morning, we go to work, we work all day long and you know, do all our work. We come home, we go to sleep, get up the next morning, rinse and repeat over and over again. Every day should be the same.
Our bodies don't work like that. Because we may get up one day and have all of the energy. And then the next day we're like, "where did all that energy go? It's gone." And that's... our hormones are shifting in our bodies and that's shifting what we can do.
So, when we're thinking about our periods and the time that we're having our bleed, our hormones are really low. And so that's really kind of a time for quiet and for rest and for that introspection that I talked about. Because the way that our hormones are balanced during that time, it's a great time to evaluate, see what's working and what's not working, and think about what are my intentions for this next month? So it's not that nothing is happening during that time. It's not that you're not being productive. You're being productive in a different way.
And then moving through the cycle, the next part of the cycle is after your bleeding, but before your egg is released. And during that time, your estrogen is rising. And during that time, your hormones are supporting you to do things like writing. Or to do things like planning and thinking of big ideas and outlining things. And it's also a really creative time, so brainstorming is really good. And thinking about all the different ways to do something can feel like essence of ease during that time.
And then ovulation is that time when you're putting yourself out in the world. And so things like presentations can be really good, or if you have to have a hard conversation with someone. Because of the way your hormones are balanced, you are very open and receptive and your verbal skills are really good. And so if you want to go ask for a raise or if you need to talk to a coworker or a parent or a partner, you know, this is a really great time to kind of plan for those conversations because of the way that you are hormonally supported during that time.
And then after ovulation: our luteal phase. So that's the time from ovulation to our next period. That's really a time when we're kind of getting things done, like checking things off the list, detail oriented type things. And so, cleaning out your closet or cleaning out the pantry or. Filing your taxes or doing data entry and things like that can be something that's really supported.
So when you start to move through over a longer timeframe, you're getting all the things done, but you're not fighting with yourself to get those things done. And so that's one of the really powerful pieces of understanding how you move through your cycle, understanding what's true for you and what feels like ease and what feels a little harder during different times in your cycle, so that you can think ahead and plan ahead and decide, "oh, you know, I'd really love to record a podcast during my ovulatory time so that I'm speaking and my words are flowing" and things like that.
So it really helps you to plan ahead so don't spend so much time fighting with yourself and like, "why can't I get this done today?" I was like, "well, today not may not be the day." But what about in a week from now? You could batch four of your newsletters or whatever that might be. So just thinking about it in a longer, cyclical way that ease is going to come back again.
Passionistas: So what is the actual tracking? Is it as simple as "this is the day my period started" and going from there? Or are there other things that you track as well?
Tara: When I'm teaching people to track, we start by tracking just two or three things, because there's a lot that you can track depending on what information you are wanting.
So you can track your energy levels. You can track your sleep, you can track how does exercise feel? How does your movement practice feel? Do you have food cravings? Are there sometimes you're really hungry or not so hungry? Do you have certain days that you have headaches? So there's a lot of different things, depending on what's happening in your body.
One of the places we often start is energy. So what does your energy feel like? How is your energy today? What kind of things did you get done? What felt easy? And then as you move through the cycle, like, okay, where are you in your cycle? Those hormones that shifted and move, what's underlying that. So how do you support your body to flow through that cycle, and to support your body to be able to move through fluidly without forcing things.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Tara McCann. To learn more about tracking your menstrual cycle and to download the free cycle tracker, visit taramccannwellness.com.
If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us to continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting thepassionistasproject.com/podcast and clicking on the patron button. Even $5 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions. Now here's more of our interview with Tara.
How does what is learned during your work apply to women who are in menopause or post-menopause? Is there still work that they can do?
Tara: There is actually. One of the programs I do is actually using the moon as that cyclical rhythm. Because if a woman is post-menopausal or perimenopausal, when their cycle is maybe not consistent anymore, or post-menopausal when they no longer have a cycle. Some women who are on hormonal birth control don't have cycles. You can use that rhythm of the moon to plan and to create that flow of energy and the different tasks that might feel easy so that you're really prioritizing that rest and prioritizing the different types of like creative work or speaking work, or just getting things done. Because as women even if we're not cycling, we have this imprint of the cycle.
We have this just knowing of the cycle because we are cyclical beings and we have been, and we've always been. And so tapping back into that cyclical rhythm, you can do that even without having that indicator of having a physical bleed. Like even if you've had a hysterectomy, but you still have your ovaries, you're probably still cycling. You just might not know it because you don't have that indicator. So you can also track with the moon until you figure out what your body's signals are of those different parts of your cycle. That's the other way that I talk about and use tracking.
Passionistas: So the best way to get started is to sort of start keeping a journal then of your energy levels, your hunger, your cravings... things like that.?
Tara: Yeah, you can. I created just a paper tracker with a paper and pencil because I'm a paper and pencil gal. I like to be able to see that... I like to be able to compare one to the other, right, side-by-side. Because then you can say, oh, look on day 10 of my cycle, this happens. On day 22 of my cycle, this happens. And so you can compare month to month.
There's lots of, you know, online trackers out there as well. So if you are a, you know, you want to do it on an app, there's lots of apps out there. Or I've had lots of women create spreadsheets. Sometimes that can get a little expansive because they'll start with like two things. And then they're like, "oh, I wonder about this and this." And suddenly they've got like 15 things that they're tracking every day. And so that's why I recommend, you know, honing in, or what are the most important things that you're wanting to understand about your body in this time and space?
And some of the things you can track simultaneously. Like if you're having period pain, that's only going to be on a certain number of days. So you could track period pain with how heavy your flow is, and also your energy level and your sleep, like your sleep patterns and see if that changes. So there's ways to kind of incorporate more than one, cause they may not be on every day. And then once you have like a really good understanding and a really good knowledge of, "oh, my body typically does this around this time," then you can add another layer.
Then you can add in, okay how does movement feel? How does it feel when I do a really strenuous exercise during the time that I'm bleeding? Like, does that feel good or does that not feel good? Does that feel supportive or not supportive? And so you can start to understand that too, and plan your movement or other things during the timeframe or during your cycle.
Passionistas: Do you have like one or two success stories from the women that you've worked with, where you've seen, like, just this major transformation?
Tara: Yeah, there's a couple. So I had one woman who tracked... there's many, but we'll go with a couple. So there was one woman who tracked with me last spring and she had had heavy periods and really debilitating period pain for years and years and years. And she just assumed it was normal... assumed that it was what happened. And so she started tracking with me and shortly into our time together, she had her period. And she got into a situation where she was taking Advil and then she couldn't get the period pain to stop and then was taking more Advil. And just her body got more and more pain. And then she didn't feel good. Got sick. Had to go to the emergency room... was, you know, all of these things. And she had just moved to a new space. So she didn't have an established practice with a doctor. So she couldn't get more pain medication to help alleviate what was going on for her.
So, it was that situation that she was kind of stuck with. But she realized in the group setting we were in-- we were in a group of four women-- and another woman in that space had been an ovarian cancer survivor. And so both of us were talking about, you know what, this much pain is not normal. Like there is pain involved. There can be pain involved, but there's a lot you can do to less en that. But this much is a lot and you need to go find someone who will listen to you.
And so what tracking did for her, was it really allowed her to advocate for herself. She found a doctor. She found a space where... you know, cause she was within that 30 day period that we were checking together. She's like, "I'm going to have another period. And what am I going to do then? Cause I'm still not established with a doctor." So, you know, she was creating a plan for, "okay, can I talk to my old doctor?" And "how do I take care of myself?" And then she was able to find a really good doctor and get in with them, even though they were further away because she got a recommendation from someone else in the group and was really able to establish care with someone who would listen to her.
And so I think that was a really big transformation for her... being able to know what's going on. And, you know, she had gotten some pain medication and then she was like, "oh my gosh, is this what it's supposed to feel like? Is this what it feels like to not be in such excruciating pain? Is this what typically, you know, people experience during a flow? Cause I've never had this little pain before."
Passionistas: So aside from the pain, what are some of the other myths about menstruation that really need to be debunked?
Tara: So pain is one of them. That's one of the biggest ones that you have to endure your cycle and that it's painful.
You know, the other big myths are the shame around it, that it's something you shouldn't talk about. It's something that should be hidden. And one of the women in one of my communities was... her transition over the 30 days with it, she realized that it was just this natural process that her body went through and such forgiveness for her body and understanding that this is something that is natural and wonderful that's happening to her. But she had also had a lot of pain in her cycles as well. And so coming to a different space with what your body feels like. So, you know, shame and the myth of that and wanting to hide it.
I think one of the things that I experienced going through my fertility journey was, I think at the beginning we talked about, you know, when you first get your period and you're fearful of pregnancy and like, you don't want to get pregnant and all of that fear that surrounds that. And so, you know, there's birth control and there's ways to prevent pregnancy. And we live in this kind of like, "oh my God, you know, did I have... we had a pregnancy scare" or "I think I might be pregnant even though we're on birth control."
And so there's like this holding that happens. And then when we go to get pregnant and we're like, "oh, I stopped the birth control. It'll be fine. I'll just get pregnant right away." Because there's this fear that we could get pregnant at any moment. And then when we stop, we're like, "of course I'll get pregnant right away because I can get pregnant at any moment." And then our bodies have changed, or sometimes we go on... women go on birth control at a very young age because they're having difficulties in their flow or difficulties with pain or heavy periods or things like that. And instead of looking at the underlying cause of what's going on, they're just put on medication, which just kind of masks it. And then when they come off of the medicine to get pregnant, that underlying whatever it was is still there. And their body has to adjust to coming off the birth control and then it takes a long time to get pregnant.
And then there's that feeling of "what is wrong with me and what's wrong with my body and why can't I get pregnant?" And so it just kind of piles on top of each other.
Passionistas: So how can people work with you? How can women that want to get in touch with you do that? And what services do you offer specifically?
Tara: My signature program is called Tracking With Friends, and it's a 30 day program where we track our menstrual cycles together. And we get on together every day, and I give you a little video and a little meditation for you to check in. And then each person gets to do an individual check-in. So we create this sense of community around talking about our periods.
Because for so many of us, we don't have a space. There's no space where we can go and talk about it. And so this small community of women-- it's usually three to five women tracking together-- is that community where nothing is TMI. You know, we talk about all the things and it's just this amazing container that happens. And women get to know each other so well and so quickly in this space.
And so as we track together, I'm going through with each person, like this is where you are in your cycle. This is what might be going on underlying in the hormones. So this is something you might want to keep track of moving forward. So there's the accountability piece to it. And then once a week, we get together, live on Zoom and talk about, you know, "okay, here's what's going on in your hormones." And I do a little bit of teaching, but it's also just a lot of sharing of all of the things that are happening in cycles.
And then I also do one-on-one coaching. So women who really want to dive in and support their hormones and figure out what's going on. So when I talk about, you know, that period pain is really common, but it's not normal. Like we shouldn't be in so much pain. There's a lot we can do to support our bodies with nutrition and the foods we eat and taking care of our gut and taking care of inflammation and sleep and movement and all of those things that I can help women to create and help them understand what's going on. First of all, understanding their own bodies and then making those small shifts that are going to have really big impacts in the way that their cycles flow.
Passionistas: You mentioned that you're a member of MOB Nation. So can you talk a little bit about that organization and what it's meant to you?
Tara: Yeah. The Mom Owned Business, MOB Nation. And so it's a group of mom owned business owners, entrepreneurs who... it's a supportive network of women. So it's networking, but it's so much more than networking because yes, there is... there's incredible support for your business and, you know, MOB economy. Because you know, the tagline is that "There's a mob for that." Because there is. There's another mom owned business that you can buy from for just about everything. And so our directors have created a directory of mom owned businesses, and so you can find someone to buy from.
And so we've created this whole economy where we buy from each other and support each other's businesses. And then even beyond that business support, it really is support for your whole life and your whole being and who you are. And the MOB Alliance, which is the paid version of the MOB Nation is really this close knit group of women who... you know, you can hop on at two in the morning and be like, "this is going wrong and this is going wrong and I can't," you know, "I need somebody." There will probably be another MOB on that can hop on and support you and supporting women through, you know, their grief or closing their business. Or, you know, in this pandemic, it's been an incredible lifeline for staying connected with other business owners, you know, because we've gone virtual and been able to support each other in that way.
And so it is a networking group and it is a, you know, supportive life group as well, I would say. So, so much more than just networking.
Passionistas: Is there anything else you want women to know that we haven't asked you about?
Tara: I think one of the things that we touched on a little bit, but not too much, is the fact that there is this physical piece, there is this hormonal piece to the way that our bodies move and flow. But there's also this energetic, spiritual piece, this connection to our wisdom, that we flow through and that our cycles can be, I don't want to say a tool because that's, you know, tool feels very like masculine. You know, like this is a tool.
It's not. It's a process and it's a journey and we can use the, you know, the life and death and rebirth that happens with a cycle, right? Every month our uterine lining sheds, we grow an egg and mature an egg, and then that egg and the lining gets shut again. And then we are reborn again. And so it can be a really supportive process for our growth and expansion in the world.
And so not just with that physical cycle, but that creative process that I was talking about. That creation in the world and staying in alignment with the world. And then using that time when things are getting broken down, using our cycle as that supportive, grounding space that we know that even as things break down, you're going to be reborn into what's next. And that the cycle just continues and goes on and that you are always supported by it and with it. And it's that constant companion grounding force for ourselves.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Tara McCann. To learn more about tracking your menstrual cycle and to download the free cycle tracker visit taramccannwellness.com.
Please visit thepassionistasproject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box, filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions.
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Tuesday Apr 19, 2022
Sara Fins Brings Easy Bookkeeping to Solopreneurs
Tuesday Apr 19, 2022
Tuesday Apr 19, 2022
Sara Fins is an accountant, financial coach and mom of two who helps solopreneurs and small business owners discover how simple it can be to take control of their business finances. In doing so, Sara helps them save time, stress less and keep more of the money they earn. Sara is the creator of Easy Business Bookkeeping, a course and system that teaches business owners how to keep track of their business finances and prepare for tax season confidently and with ease.
Learn more about Sara.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and today we're talking with Sara Fins, an accountant, financial coach, and mom of two. She helps solopreneurs and small business owners discover how simple it can be to take control of their business finances so that they can save time, stress less, and keep more of the money that they earn.
Sara is the creator of Easy Business Bookkeeping, a course and system that teaches business owners how to track their business finances and prepare for tax time confidently and with ease. So please welcome to the show, Sara Fins.
So Sara, what's the one thing you're most passionate about.
Sara: The one thing I'm most passionate about is empowering entrepreneurs to learn to manage the finances of their business, so that they know that they can do it themselves and feel confident in that area of their business. Because I feel like once that's unlocked for them, they can take their business wherever they want it to go.
Passionistas: And why is that a passion of yours?
Sara: I started out as an accountant in my previous, previous life. And then I went into health coaching and I became a health coach before circling back to do finance coaching. And what I found during that time is that so many of my colleagues were amazing at the coaching. They were so passionate about what they were doing. But when it came to the number side of their business, they were either afraid to look. They didn't know what to do. They felt uncomfortable. They felt overwhelmed by it.
And it was preventing many of them from moving forward in their businesses. And so I discovered that. If they had that knowledge, it kind of unblocked a whole new path for them. And they could feel more confident moving forward because they were actually able to make the money they needed to make their businesses businesses as opposed to hobbies.
And so that's kind of how I came about that. And I just realized by seeing the transformation in their businesses and their selves, that this was something that could really help them, and then, on the, you know, the ripple effect, help their clients and help other people and other women succeed.
Passionistas: Let's take a step back. Tell us about your childhood, where you grew up and were you always interested in math?
Sara: So I'm from Long Island, New York. I grew up in Suffolk County and when I was young, there were lots of farms around where I lived. And, you know, over time it's become more suburban. But I went to college in Pennsylvania. And then I studied accounting and I actually, wasn't always interested in numbers. I really was interested in psychology and I was interested in those types of classes. And that's where I excelled. However, the practical side of my brain said, you need to have a good job.
So I had an uncle who's an accountant, you know, very successful. And so I thought, Hmm, okay, let me try this. And I went into accounting and I just jumped right in and I graduated with a degree in accounting. And then I went and got my CPA and I worked in various corporate accounting roles in New York City. And then also moved to London and worked in London and lived abroad for a couple of years.
And when my daughter was born, I resigned from the position that I was in and went back to school to get my health coaching certification, because that was always something I was really passionate about. And it kind of pulled back in the interest I had in helping people from when I was young. You know, I wanted to be into psychology and helping professions.
And I wasn't feeling that from the accounting rules that I was in. And so I, you know, merged my passion for health with my passion for business and helping people. And I started my health coaching practice. Then I ran that practice for 10 years and it went really well. But like I mentioned earlier, I discovered through that time that I could really help from a finance perspective, because what came easy for me in those two areas, other people were struggling with.
And so that's kind of the long story of how I got to where I am right now. We moved back from being abroad and have been living in Long Island, more Western Long Island, closer to New York City for the past 10 years now.
Passionistas: And what was that time living abroad like? What brought you overseas and did you enjoy that time?
Sara: Yes. We really enjoyed that time. I was newly married at the time. My husband and I had just gotten married. And he's actually an accountant as well. We met at work years ago. And so I was working, actually, in a recruiting role, at the time, recruiting accounting professionals. And so he got a job offer with his company to move there and I was able to transfer with the company I was working for at the time.
And so, you know, we were young, we had just gotten married. We didn't have any children yet. And so we lived in London for two years. That was so much fun, especially working in an office environment there because it gives you such a different perspective than just being kind of an ex-pat, you know. And then we wound up actually moving to Paris because the company that my husband worked for was, is a French company. He actually still works for them in a different capacity today, and they wanted us to be... wanted him to be in Paris.
And so when my daughter, well, I may have jumped ahead a little bit, but my daughter was born in London. So while we were there, we wound up having my daughter. And when she was about six months old, we moved to Paris and lived there for about two years as well. Which was equally amazing. However, we had a little baby, so we didn't do quite as much traveling or quite as many things as we had done in London. But that was the point where I resigned from the company and went back to school for health coaching. It felt like a really good time. I could be home with my daughter while also pursuing this second career of mine.
And we came home because we found out we were having our second child and felt like we just needed to be back closer to family. So we were kind of feeling that pull. So that's what, that's what brought us back to the United States.
Passionistas: So, now tell us the name of your current company and what services you provide.
Sara: Currently, my company is Sara Fins Coaching. And so what I do is financial coaching for solopreneurs, and small business owners. And so the main thing that I offer right now is I have a course called Easy Business Bookkeeping.
And in that course, I built a very user-friendly basic spreadsheet template that I teach business owners to use to track their expenses, their revenue, and then categorize everything for tax purposes. And so it's really to help them track everything. Either, if they're not ready to outsource yet to a bookkeeper. You know, many coaches, I find even ones that have been in business for a long time, don't need to, because there's not that much, you know, going on in a business. As opposed to, if you have a company where you're manufacturing products and things like that. And so it's designed to really help them manage their finances and then get ready for tax time.
And also use the information, like I said earlier, to have the information they need to know. What offerings they have that they might want to focus on that are bringing them in more money. Where they might be spending, you know, money they don't need to be spending. Or, you know, do they have money to invest in certain things for their business? And so I teach that all within the easy business bookkeeping course.
And then I also do offer some one-on-one coaching. If someone really wants to talk through, kind of, how to personalize that very closely for their own business. How to set things up for themselves. And then if they're just at the point where, they just don't want to do it themselves. I help them get set up by taking their information and putting it all into the spreadsheet and getting them ready and then teaching them how to do it on a going forward basis.
So what I don't do, is I don't do the bookkeeping for them. Because as I talked about before, it's really bad empowerment. I want to empower business owners to look at those numbers and see what's going on and get really, really comfortable with their business finances.
Passionistas: And, you know, money can be an emotional and stressful topic for a lot of people. So how does the psychology and coaching training that you've had over the years factor into the services you provide?
Sara: Yeah, absolutely. The coaching training I've had has been invaluable in that respect. And then also, as being a business owner myself and being on the other side of it and running my health coaching practice for so long, I really know what they're going through from that perspective.
And although I didn't struggle with the financial management because I went into it having the background in accounting, I understand some of the challenges that come up as well. But yes, what I find is, that a lot of the times, what's keeping business owners from managing their finances or from looking at their finances and getting deep into the numbers is fear, like you mentioned.
Either, they're worried that there might not be enough money. They might not be bringing in enough money. They're worried that they just don't have the skills; they don't know how, they have to be a numbers person or an accountant to do that. Or they just don't have time. Right? So I try, in my coaching and in my programs, to create a really safe space, so that, any question they can ask is not a silly question.
Everyone has to start from somewhere. And I compare it to, you know, what you've learned in your business and what you bring to your clients you didn't know when you started out, right? So it's something that you cultivated over time. And it's the same with getting comfortable with your finances. You have to start with something little. Just look at your bank statement every month and take a look at what's going on in there and then move on to the next thing. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. And you don't have to. And in fact, you can't be an expert overnight, right? It's impossible.
So I try to create a safe space where, they can ask any questions they have, you know. And I have built into my programs... support. You know, we have a Facebook group. They can email me. One thing we also do, is we do monthly money dates. So basically I have a dedicated time each month where we meet on zoom and it's like a study hall just to give the participants time to, you know, look at their numbers.
And so that's to create the container so that they actually have a time dedicated to do it. So, yeah, so it's a blend of, kind of, using the coaching skills and then using also my accounting skills to empower them with the knowledge to make decisions about deductions and you know, how do I classify this revenue? How do I classify this expense? The basics of that as well.
Passionistas: What do you find is the biggest financial mistake that most small business owners make?
Sara: I think the biggest mistake is that they don't become familiar with their numbers. So either they outsource it to a friend, or a partner, a spouse, or, you know, a bookkeeper, which absolutely has its place in certain businesses, I think. But it's really important that, you know, what's going on there yourself. And so technical mistakes can always be corrected, right? Like I was just talking yesterday on one of my classes that if you're categorizing your deductions and you accidentally put it in the wrong category, it's not the end of the world. Like it can always be fixed.
But if you don't know what's going on with your business financially, three years down the line, you can wind up not being able to even keep the doors open because you haven't paid attention to what is going on there. And so if you do nothing else, I think it's really important to know what's going on there. And that's the biggest mistake I make is people just kind of turning a blind eye or thinking, oh, I'll deal with it later. Or that it's not as important as it really is.
Passionistas: As a female entrepreneur yourself, is there something that you wish you knew when you started your business that you've learned along the way?
Sara: Oh, so many things I learned along the way. I mean, again, as it relates to finances, another thing that I see quite often from the women business owners I work with-- and most of the people that I do work with are female business owners-- is that they lack the confidence around numbers. So for whatever reason, whether it was their parents or whether they grew up just... you know, in our society, we're told like math is for boys, numbers are for boys. And that translates into, at least what I see, a lack of confidence around managing that side of their businesses.
I hear a lot of times, like, I just want to work with the clients. I just want someone else to do all that stuff for me. You know, it's great to outsource all for that, once you're at a space where you can do that. But it's important to have the confidence yourself around knowing that part of your business.
And then also charging what you're worth, because that's another aspect of it. If you don't know that you're not making enough money from this course, and you don't feel like you have the right to kind of ask for that money, you're not going to charge appropriately. So on kind of the same bucket, right? And then you're not going to be able to keep your business sustainable for long enough to keep it, to keep it going.
So, yeah, the confidence, I think. And I discovered that, you know, all through my business, that even I had to work on that in some respects. Like when I was making a proposal for, you know, to do a talk or something like that. And it's always kind of like, "oh, well, what's your budget?" You know, something like that, it's hard to sometimes speak up and say, "this is what I charged for X, and this is what I charged for this." and so I think we need to, or at least the clients I see and myself, practice that muscle of kind of standing in the power of saying, "this is what I'm charging and this is why." And it's okay.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and you're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Sara Fins.
To discover how simple it can be to take control of your business finances, visit sarafins.com. You can hang out with Sara in her free Facebook group, the Easy Business Bookkeeping Community, or on Instagram and Facebook at Easy Business Bookkeeping.
If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting thepassionistasproject.com/podcast and clicking on the patron button. Even $5 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions.
Now here's more interview with Sara Fins.
Is there an example of a success story that you've worked with someone who's come to you that was a complete mess and figured it out and flourished?
Sara: Yeah, there are a lot of them, which, you know, makes me really happy. I did this business pivot just before COVID and then I kind of took a step back because it wasn't the right time. And I jumped back into it maybe a year-ish should go. And just in that short amount of time, I've seen a lot of transformation. So this has been the first, kind of, full year that many of my clients have been using the system. And so they're coming back to me and letting me know that they're already ready for taxes. So, you know, it's February and they've already got their numbers. Whereas in the past they would spend an entire day with their receipts and trying to, you know, get it all ready in time. And so I've heard a few stories lately about that. How everybody's feeling prepared, and their tax accountants are so happy that they have this, you know, buttoned up thing to show them.
I have another client of mine, Lisa, who was using QuickBooks. For those of you who don't know, it's an accounting system that... really it's geared towards accountants, but they also market it towards late people. So a lot of people think, "oh, I have to get this for my business." And then they pay a lot of money to have somebody set it up for them properly, which, you have to have help with that because it's complicated to do it yourself, unless you're an accountant. And then oftentimes it's too much. And so they never do it because every time they think about going into the program and using it, it's very overwhelming.
So Lisa was using QuickBooks when she came to me. And she's like, "it's fine, but I never want to do it. I don't have everything up to date in there. It overwhelms me. I'm paying all this money. I don't even need to be paying this money." And so, she started using my program and she came back to me not too long ago about a recent launch that she had. And she said to me, 'I had my best year ever. And I truly believe that if I hadn't been on top of them by finances, looking at those numbers as my launches were happening, and as I was going through, I wouldn't have even had the motivation to push for those higher numbers of enrollments. And I wouldn't have known how well I was doing.' And so at the end of the year, she's like, 'I've made the most money in my business this year than all the other years past. And I think it's in part to my confidence around my finances.'
So that's my favorite client to talk about because she's really rocking it. And she got rid of QuickBooks because it wasn't meeting her needs. And so she stopped paying for it. So she saved money on that end too.
Passionistas: Financially or not financially, what do you think your best habit is?
Sara: I would say my best habit is time management, and that's something I've cultivated a lot over the years. I mean, I think, you know, you learn a little bit each time as you go along, but then as a business owner, you learn it for sure. And then as a parent, and a business owner, you learn it also. Because before I had kids, you know, you feel like you have all the time in the world. But then you have your children and you realize you don't because your schedule is not entirely yours.
And so it's gotten very, very good at managing my tasks and managing my time. And when I'm working, I'm working. And when I'm not working, you know, I'm trying not to work. That's, that's another story. But when I'm dedicated to those hours that I'm actually working, I'm really good about prioritizing what I need to do and turning off distractions so that I can just get it done. So that's been a, you know, that's been something I've been cultivating for a number of years.
Passionistas: What advice would you give to your younger self?
Sara: Don't be afraid to take risks and to be, you know, a little bit risk averse. And I think if I had taken more risks, maybe I would have, you know, gone into psychology, for example, even though it wasn't, in my mind, a safe career, you know. However reason I thought that in my twenties, I don't know. But, you know. So I think taking more risks in my career path and maybe in the jobs I was in and in the earlier stages of my business. I think that would be one thing that I would tell my younger self.
And then the other thing that I would tell my younger self is to get help. So when I started my business, I waited too long to reach out to people who could train me to do the things I didn't need to do... that I didn't know how to do. I remember floundering for the first like year in terms of marketing and really just like throwing spaghetti at the wall and trying to figure out what was happening and what I should be doing. And then once I invested in a program that taught me a marketing framework, it was a game changer. So, you know, don't wait so long to reach out for help in the areas that you need support in.
Passionistas: Have you ever suffered a professional setback that seemed devastating at the time, but actually ended up being a blessing?
Sara: The first company I worked for in my accounting days, went out of business. And at that time, my office wasn't involved in the scandal, a different state, but the whole company closed. And at that time it felt like, "what's going to happen now? Am I going to have a job?" I was in my twenties, you know, I was about to get married. I didn't know what was happening.
And then that opened a lot of doors because the next job I took introduced me to, you know, the person who would eventually hire me for the recruiting role. And then that helped me to move abroad. And it just was kind of a domino effect from there. And that enabled me to go back and follow my passion to have my own business.
So, yeah, but at the time it was like, "uh oh." Because when I was growing up and when I was in college, you know, your path was you get a job in corporate and you work in New York city and that's what you do for the rest of your life. And so if that hadn't happened, I'm not sure everything would have played out the way it did.
Passionistas: When you were a kid, what did your mother teach you about women's roles in society and what are you passing on to your children?
Sara: I come from a long line of very strong women. But my grandmother went to college and wasn't super common, you know, back then. And then she also had a job which also wasn't common. My mother always had a job and my parents divorced when I was young. So my mom was, you know, pretty much the one who was running everything and working to support my sister and I.
And it was never really taught that you can't do something. You know, my mother was a professional... is a professional. She's a nurse practitioner, you know, she always was all about school and just very supportive in the way that there's really nothing you can't do. And that was the impression I always felt for my sister and myself coming from both my mom and my grandmother, that there was never really a question.
Like if I wanted to go to college and become an accountant, then that's what I would do. You know? So I think that that was really helpful in my upbringing, to have such strong female role models. Because it was... from that perspective, it was never a question that I could do what I wanted to do in my professional life.
Passionistas: What's your dream for women?
Sara: Honestly, my dream for women is that they feel empowered to follow their own dreams. So that might be starting a business, that might not be starting a business. That might be staying home and raising a family. That might be, you know, remaining single, or not having a family. But I want every woman to feel empowered to follow the path that they feel in their heart is the right one for them, instead of feeling the pressures that we have from society to do X. To do Y. Because I think there's a lot of that.
And I think it can go both ways too, right? Like in a lot of ways, we're taught to be quiet and stay small and all of that. But then in my house, it was, you can do whatever you want to do, and then you feel the pressure to be a career woman and have, you know, that life. And for myself, I didn't truly resonate with that either because I wound up leaving corporate when my daughter was born. And I just knew that I didn't want to live that life and have kids at the same time.
And so, yeah, I think for me, it's for women to feel empowered to follow whatever path they want to follow and be supported by the people around them and then also society. Because as we know the structure of at least in the United States, it doesn't support women in the workforce. That we have those support systems in place to actually do what we want to do and reach our goals.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Sara Fins.
To discover how simple it can be to take control of your business finances, visit sarafins.com. You can hang out with Sara in her free Facebook group, The Easy Business Bookkeeping Community, or on Instagram and Facebook @easybusinessbookkeeping.
Please visit thepassionistasproject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box, filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions.
This quarter's box is a collaboration with the MOB Nation and features products from mom owned businesses. It's the perfect Mother's Day gift for the mother in your life, or a treat for yourself. Get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription using the code SPRINGGOODIES, and be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast, so you don't miss any of our upcoming, inspiring guests.
Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.
Tuesday Apr 05, 2022
Aria Leighty Is Helping Moms Thrive in Live and Business
Tuesday Apr 05, 2022
Tuesday Apr 05, 2022
Aria Leighty is the founder of MOB Nation, a networking group she founded in 2012. After finding networking opportunities inaccessible to mom owned business, Aria wanted to create a space of true connection. After years of working with hundreds of mom-owned businesses, Aria realized there was so much more that MOBs needed to thrive in life and business. In addition to The MOB Nation, Aria is a thought leader, trailblazer, and business mentor. For almost a decade, she’s combined her diverse experience, creative ideas, wide range of connections, and unique perspectives to help women on the edge of change up-level in their businesses and lives.
Learn more about The Mob Nation.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and this is our 100th episode of the podcast. We want to take a moment to thank all of the women who have shared their stories and to all of you for tuning in and listening. We hope you've been as inspired by all of these Passionistas, as we have been. We've picked someone very special to be our hundredth guest: MOB Nation founder, Aria Leighty.
We were introduced to her by two other women who have been guests on the podcast. Stacy Newman-Weldon, the founder of Adventure Wednesdays and Dr. Melissa Bird, the founder of Natural Born Rebel and the new Heart of the Warrior Program.
Not only is Aria today's guest, but we're currently collaborating with her and her incredible community, The MOB Nation, on this quarter's Passionistas Project Pack. As usual, our subscription box is filled with women owned products. But thanks to the MOB, for this installment, they're all from Mom Owned businesses.
Aria founded the networking group The MOB Nation in 2012. After finding traditional networking opportunities inaccessible to mom owned businesses, she wanted to create a space of true connection. After years of working with hundreds of mom-owned businesses, Aria realized there were so much more that MOBs needed to thrive in life and business.
In addition to building The MOB Nation, Aria is a thought leader, trailblazer and business mentor. For almost a decade, she's combined her diverse experience, creative ideas, wide range of connections, and unique perspective to help women on the edge of change up-level in their businesses and lives. So please welcome to the show, Aria Leighty.
Aria: I love that. Thank you for that intro.
Passionistas: We're so excited to have you here. We love Mob Nation. We're huge fans. So Aria, what's the one thing you're most passionate about?
Aria: Really getting money into the hands of women and mom owned businesses. I think that that is like the overlying like concept in all of my businesses. All of the things that I do is the intent of redistributing the wealth into really good hearted women and allowing us to tap into that feminine energy of money.
Passionistas: And why is that so important to you and what personal experiences have you had that made those things a priority for you?
Aria: Well, I have just personally witnessed that it really does change the world. Like when we can redistribute the wealth, it has been proven that when women have more control of the money, they go and they spend it locally. They make more investments, they do more things. They have all the spending power in their family, so they can decide how to use that money to, like I said, change the world, whether it's, you know, outsource and their business to create more jobs, whether it is tipping better, women tip better. Also, you know, it just has more of that cycle of change in the world when women are earning it and spending it.
Passionistas: So let's take a step back. Where did you grow up? What was your childhood like? And did your childhood have an influence on these things that you're doing today?
Aria: I grew up... I split my time, my whole life has been split between Honolulu, Hawaii, Portland, Oregon, and San Diego, California. My dad was in the Navy. He met my native Hawaiian mother. It was kind of one of those cliche sailor meets a Hawaiian and so we moved around a lot. It's funny that you ask this because I was just asked this. And I said that my childhood was actually very lonely and I spent most of it very alone. And I was like, so I don't think it really had an impact on me. And then I was like, okay, well, duh, it did because I went out and built these massive communities so that people didn't have to do it alone.
Passionistas: So let's jump ahead to MOB Nation. What were you doing prior to that? And what led you to create this amazing community?
Aria: I had just opened my first brick and mortar location of a kid's art studio called Art a la Carte. I was in Portland, Oregon at the time. And so I was a single mom, single young mom. And my daughter was starting kindergarten and I decided to open a business and I knew that I was absolutely nuts. And I got to this point where I was like, what have I done. This is crazy. And so I started to go out and went to build my business, went to build my network.
And I just didn't feel like networking was successful. I couldn't find my people. And I always joke that I was like, I've got to find at least one more. There's gotta be one more mom that was crazy enough to also start a business and balance that with motherhood. And then, you know, thousands of members later, here we are.
Passionistas: So what were you experiencing as a mom owned business owner that was unique to what other business owners go through?
Aria: I mean, it literally wasn't accessible, like it just wasn't. During times of the day, I felt like I had to take my mom hat off and kind of run a mask when walking into those rooms. At the time, I mean, this was a decade ago. It really felt like traditional networking was kind of like... like the boys club and it was very masculine energy. It was very competitive. There wasn't a lot of like collaboration. Even if there were female centered, women centered circles, it still felt like we were modeling that masculine behavior of competing with each other and one-upping each other.
And some of the other traditional networking things... like you can never miss a meeting or you'll get kicked out .And it's, you know, if my daughter has a play or, you know, she's not feeling good, that's coming first before anything else. So that was really what made me start to realize that moms needed so much more than just what was being offered at the time.
Passionistas: So how did you go from finding that one other mother, who had started a business, to building this community of thousands of women? What was the process?
Aria: Well, first we just started meeting. I mean, it started with a Facebook post, like, "Hey, anybody know anyone else that's doing this?" And we had the first little quote unquote meetup around my dining table. I think there was like six moms, who a couple of them are still members today. Then we started going into a couple of different coffee shops and then people would just hear.
Like, you know, word of mouth spread really quickly because it was like, this is unlike anything that I've ever seen. You know, moms are actually collaborating, they're purchasing from each other. It's just, it's a completely different dynamic and energy and the referrals aren't forced. It's a very organic connection.
When I brought my kids and they were coloring, you know, during the whole thing. So when we started like really making structured meetups, it was very intentional how I've created them to make sure that everybody walks in feeling seen, everybody leaves feeling heard. Like they made a new friend. Like they got a new connection. Like they had an opportunity to share their pitch and their big ask.
And then again on a national level... that just... it went crazy. People were talking on Facebook. Like I joined this group where I went to this event and I saw, you know, my sales doubled within a week. Or, you know, I've never felt this level of community before. And so people started calling and emailing saying, "bring this to Phoenix, bring this to San Diego, bring this, you know, over here to Florida." And so we really just began expanding from there.
I had no intention at the time. And Gwen, our COO, was like, "As soon as you asked me to be a part of this, I knew that this was going to grow on a national level." But I really thought it was just going to be community-based. And I'm still shocked all the time when I talk to somebody from across the world now, and they've heard of The MOB Nation.
Passionistas: So talk about that process of expanding from being a local community, to taking it online and expanding throughout the country. How did you go about that?
Aria: Pre COVID times, we began with bringing on different leadership in the different cities. So the people that would say, "oh, we would love to have this in San Diego." It's like, if you want to lead it and you want to learn the secrets behind it, and you want to create the meet ups in the way that we have created them, and you want to duplicate in that in your area, then come onto our leadership team. And I would travel out there, help train them, help run their first event.
So prior to COVID, we were doing 30 in-person events per month across the nation. So there were several nights that would have, you know, one in Bend, Oregon and one in Texas and one in Honolulu. And it was really awesome to know that all of those were happening at the same time with these incredible leaders.
Then COVID happened. And it actually was a blessing for us because taking it to the online model... I don't want to say blessing, but you get what I'm saying. It did impact it in a positive way. We were able to make it a lot more accessible and expand the virtual meetups that we were doing to offering those 12 times per month.
And so people were able to come and, you know, have that experience. We were luckily able to duplicate that experience that we have and the structure that we have on Zoom. And people that are from small towns that don't get access to that community, people that have online businesses, where they can really benefit from sales from anywhere, they're able to hop on, get that experience, make those connections.
Passionistas: I mean, I think one of the most impressive things is this micro economy that you have fostered. So talk about that, and especially during COVID, the benefits that that has had for your members.
Aria: That is the thing I'm the most proud of too, is the micro economy. We like, we love to say, "there's a MOB for that."
And so that's really what we stand by. We encourage our members to support MOB first. And again, we take that same idea that when moms have more money in their pockets, we can change the world. We can make a difference, we create more jobs. And so being able to cultivate that culture within the group, getting them thinking all the time, what big box purchases can I switch over to mom owned and get this economy going.
And we saw, like during COVID, when all of these businesses were shutting down, our members were still seeing the same amount of success, if not more, because now there's so many more people saying, "go support mom owned. It's more important than ever." And even the really, you know, successful businesses were purchasing gift cards from stores, they knew that they would probably never go to because it's in a completely different state just to make sure that those stores were able to remain open on the underside of this.
Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about your core team. Cause we know you mentioned Gwen, like you have some women that are kind of the nexus of this organization with you. So can you talk about how you brought them together and the roles that some of them play?
Aria: Yes, my people! So I had the MOB and I was running it for about five years... four years before taking it to the next level with the alliance and the paid membership version of the MOB, the up-level next step. And I knew before launching that that I really needed to have a team that was going to be able to support that feeling that I wanted to do. To be able to love on the community. To be able to bring in their zone of genius so I can focus on mine's zone of genius. Because I fully believe in outsourcing and bringing on team, whenever you can.
So I actually asked a group of four women. They came into my glittery painted art studio and we sat at this trashed, painted table. We have a picture of it. It's really funny. I was like, I have this idea. I think it's going to really blow up. I think it's going to change the way that networking in business is done. I want you to be a part of it.
Gwen... I don't even think I had actually met her in person yet, but she was one of those women around the table. But she was just always showing up in the MOB group and providing so much value, had so much insight. You couldn't help, but just be drawn to her energy. And I was like, this person loves this community the way that I do, and they, you know, are generous and give the way that I want to give as a leader. And Gwen has stuck with me through this entire time.
Mori was actually a chapter leader. And people would come in saying, you know, "I was so nervous to go to this Vancouver/Washington event. And Mori made me feel so good. And gave me a hug." Like I was hearing stories every week. Like" Mori made me feel this," "Mori, you know, gave me the best hug." "Or she held my baby so I could, you know, eat a meal." And I was like, I need this to be duplicated so that every member that we have nationwide can feel this level of love. And so I was like, you need to be the VP of membership, but you need to spread this joy throughout the nation.
And she has. And still, every week, it's like, "Do you know how cool Mori and Gwen are?" I'm like, yes, thank you. But that's all anybody wants to tell me is like how great those two are.
Passionistas: You're listening to the hundredth episode of The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Aria Leighty. To work with her as a coach and business mentor, visit arialeighty.com to join her alliance of women owned businesses visit themobnation.com.
If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting thepassionistasproject.com/podcast and clicking on the patron button. Even $5 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions.
Now here's more of our interview with Aria.
So you mentioned the paid level. Can you talk about the tiers and how women can be a part of MOB Nation?
Aria: Yeah. So if you identify as a mother and you have any size business, then we welcome you in. There is a show up level, which means that you're going to show up in then directory. So that's a great first start. If you are just wanting to get that marketing, that visibility, The MOB Nation directory, which is theresamomforthat.com, is the largest mom owned business directory in the nation.
So you're going to get that visibility. You're going to get seen. Again, you're going to get our members who wanted to support mom owned first, going there and to look, to see who they can support.
If you're really ready to dive in to the community and attend the meetups and, you know, get really invested, then the go up-level is for you. So you can attend all the meetups. You also have coffee chats and pitch practice and goal-setting calls. Our alliance community are really the ones that are super invested. So you know that you're going to be networking and in a private community called MOB Social. Networking with those people that really have the MOB culture on lock.
We get a lot of different amazing discounts and opportunities for our members. We partner with amazing people like The Passionistas Project, where we get our alliance members, you know, featured. So there's so many opportunities. The directors team is always looking for more ways to highlight these members and to get them seen and to get more money into their hands.
And our glow up members are members that have been a part of our community and are really the outstanding members, like look to these members to see how to have success in this community. And so they apply after a certain amount of time and get their directory listings featured on the website and a lot more benefits.
Passionistas: And even if you're not a member of The MOB, you can sponsor a meetup. Right? Tell everybody about that, cause we did that and it was an amazing opportunity.
Aria: Yeah, anyone that is really, like aligns with our community culture and wants to get their business or offering in front of our group of amazing members, they can sponsor a meetup. They can sponsor a MOBCON Mini, and be able to hop on virtually to tell our group, and then we share it in our social media platforms. And we take it very seriously, who we partner with and work with because our members have built trust with us. And they know that we only bring them the best of the best, like The Passionistas Project. And so they are, you know, so excited to support these different organizations back that partner with us.
Passionistas: What have you learned about yourself from all the work you've done with MOB Nation?
Aria: What haven't I learned about myself. I saw a thing that said, if you really want to see where you need to heal, like own a business. That's going to teach you everything that you need to know. So, I mean, it's just completely changed the trajectory of my life, and how I show up, how I connect with people. I think allowing people in and allowing myself to receive community and friendships has been a big blessing for me.
And I think I've learned everything about money mindset through working with mom owned businesses and seeing the different stories that we all carry about ourselves that, you know, men just aren't really carrying around about themselves. So, yeah, I've learned all of my important lessons through this project and this mission.
Passionistas: Every year, you have a big convention called MOBCON and then a couple of MOBCON Minis. So tell us about those and tell us the plan for the big MOBCON.
Aria: So we are having it in person. Yes. Haven't had that since 2019. It's in San Diego, California, the last weekend in September. And it's really the most amazing time where all of our members on a national level have a chance to be in the same room, feed off of each other's energy, learn from incredible speakers. We have a lot of different networking and connection opportunities.
And really our intent is to fill your cups personally and professionally. So you're going to walk away with new tools. You're going to walk away with a new, like fire lit under you with new connections, new friends. And you're also just going to have this belief in yourself and walk away that even though you poured all of time, you're still somehow going to walk away feeling like rejuvenated and rested and cared for and loved on.
So it's an incredible experience. I think like I cried for like a week after the one in 2019 because it was just... there were so many breakthroughs and so many hugs. And these people are so close and they've never met in person. You know, they've been talking for years across the world and they finally get to sit next to each other and hug and, you know, share a hotel room together. And they're just, they're so stoked.
Passionistas: Besides all of this amazing work you're doing with MOB Nation, you also have a very successful coaching and consulting business. Tell us about that and how you work with your clients.
Aria: Yeah, so that kind of formed organically. I realized that I was a consultant without even really charging for it or giving it a name. I've just been constantly mentoring different businesses throughout my decade of working with mom owned businesses. So I love to work with creative entrepreneurs and really I help them step into their power. I help them create collaborations, help them step out and show up into the world as the expert and the leader in their industry. Help them really discover and tap into their zone of genius and then stay there so that they can make money from that space.
It's something that I really love to do. My favorite thing right now is my new program "Show Up to Go Up." And that's a six week program for those really ambitious, audacious women that are ready to build that power network and to build their name on a national level, get press mentions, all of that fun stuff. And we work through everything from mindset to literally how to network intentionally. And already the women that have gone through that program, like, they are getting more bookings. They are being featured on podcasts. They are making more money within just a few weeks. So it really is a program that I'm really, really proud of.
Passionistas: And how can women work with you? How do they sign up for these programs?
Aria: They can go to arialeighty.com. I'm actually completely full for one-on-one clients until after MOBCON, which is insane. So the best way to work with me right now is to join that Show Up to Go Up program. I have one launching right now, and then there'll be one late summer/early fall that we'll be launching the next cohort.
Passionistas: Do you find that there are limiting beliefs that women tend to have that are holding them back when it comes to business?
Aria: Definitely that everything has to be hard. Like that they have to hustle and that everything has to be hard work. That it can't be easy. You know, things around the worth of their value. When we are tapped into that zone of genius because it does come so naturally and easily to us, moms are always like, "well, is it allowed to be this fun? Is it allowed to be this easy? You know, aren't I supposed to work hard and lose sleep and..." No, absolutely not.
And then the money, because so many women and so many moms they're doing heart's work, right? Like Passionistas Project is heart's work. You love it. You want to be changing the world. And so a lot of people think that if I'm changing the world, I can't be making a lot of money from it. Which you're allowed to do both. And you'll actually change the world even more if you are making a lot more money. Even just from the people watching you. Like, if we can all be, you know, breaking those limiting beliefs and those stories and those stereotypes down, it gives permission to all the women watching us to also go after what they want and to make a lot of money as well.
Passionistas: You talk about tapping into the feminine energy of money. So explain what you mean by that.
Aria: So tapping into the feminine energy of money. We have these stories around money that it's like, again, you have to work really hard. You have to sacrifice time with your family in order to, you know, make money. Money is the root of all evil. We've seen a lot of masculine examples of men having money and not doing amazing things with it.
But money is a tool. So it's only going to amplify whatever you are, whoever you are. Right? And so when we have control of it, we're doing better things with it. So when I am talking to clients and having them tap into the feminine energy of money, I really have them think "what kind of difference can you make?" Like make an impact list of how you would be spending this money.
And that often helps women because they're not looking at it anymore as this toxic thing or this greedy thing. Now they're really seeing it as like, I can be more giving and generous and compassionate. I can make better choices for my family. I can set my kids up to not have to, you know, work so hard and to be able to enjoy their lives. They think of the few things. They write it down and it's like the few obvious things. Okay. I can create some jobs or whatever. But then when they really get into it, it's like, "Oh, I can buy all of my groceries or all of my produce from organic farmers who are not, you know, destroying the earth and who are now taking that money back and being able to contribute to their family."
And all of a sudden we're really realizing what an impact we're going to have on the world when we are thinking of it as a positive tool, rather than this greedy thing that we shouldn't have.
Passionistas: When you look back at your journey, is there like a moment where things just looked really dark, but they ended up being the catalyst for something really positive?
Aria: I think every couple of months I have times where it looks... I gotta be honest. I mean, I just, I don't like to talk about things until I'm on the other side of them or until it's like, you know, a long ways back. But I just went through something where I really honestly thought, back in November, that I was going to just have to shut everything down.
I made an investment that looked like it was going to bring the MOB forward. It wasn't everything that was promised. And so it just really looked like, wow, this is not... this is the end. Like I can't keep going financially or emotionally, or, you know, I just don't have it in me physically.
So, I mean, four months ago that happened. And before that it was MOBCON 2019. Everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong. I mean everything. My card got declined checking into the hotel. And I was like, oh my gosh, like we are at our last penny to make this, you know, crazy thing happen.
And it all worked out. We had so many members join because of that. We had so many amazing opportunities open. So yeah. But I would say every year, there's one major thing that I'm like, "okay, this is it."
Passionistas: What advice would you give to a mother who wants to start her own business?
Aria: Don't do it alone. Definitely, I mean, join us for a meetup. Join us in the community so that we can support you. You don't have to start... it's kind of like getting a head start, right? Because you have all of these moms championing you throughout the process and helping you with resources and, you know, getting you there quicker.
And I think also, just starting with whatever you have. It doesn't have to be perfect. I think a lot of people want to wait until they're this, or they've accomplished this, or they read this book. But show up now with what you have and evolve in front of your audience.
Like I sold out masterminds and sold out clients with Google forms before I even had a website, you know? So you can do it with whatever you have and the world is desperate for what you want to be bringing to life. There's people out there desperate for it. So go start showing up now.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our hundredth episode and interview with Aria Leighty. To work with her as a coach and business mentor, visit arialeighty.com. To join her alliance of women owned businesses visit themobnation.com.
Please visit thepassionistasproject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box, filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passion.
And remember, this quarters box is a collaboration with The MOB Nation and features products from mom owned businesses. It's the perfect Mother's Day gift for the mother in your life, or a treat for yourself. Get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription using the code SPRINGGOODIES.
And be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming, inspiring guests. Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.
Tuesday Mar 22, 2022
Amy Chin Is Helping Clients Find Calm Better Days with CBD
Tuesday Mar 22, 2022
Tuesday Mar 22, 2022
Amy Chin is the founder of Calm Better Days, where she educates clients on CBD, its uses, different delivery methods and figuring out the proper dosage. As someone who has suffered from anxiety and depression, she found great relief with CBD and knew she had to help and educate others. By sharing her personal findings, Amy helps clients find a tailored CBD regime based on needs and lifestyle, so they can dive into their CBD journey and live calm, better days.
More about Amy Chin.
More about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Amy Chin, the founder of Calm Better Days. As someone who suffered from anxiety and postpartum depression, she found great relief with CBD and knew she had to help others understand how CBD could help them in a myriad of ways so she became a CBD educator.
Calm Better Days walks clients through what CBD is, what you use it for, different delivery methods and how to find their dosage. Clients also receive a tailored CBD regimen based on the individual's needs and lifestyle, so they can dive into their CBD journey.
So please welcome to the show, Amy Chin.
Amy: Hi. Hi Nancy. Hi Amy. Thank you for having me on today.
Passionistas: We’re really excited about CBD and want to learn all about it. Tell us what's the one thing you're most passionate about.
Amy: Well, it's cannabis. I'm most passionate about plant medicine. It is a gift that can heal in so many ways. And I think that, you know, as a society, we need to learn to tap into that. And I think that we are gearing into that category as we are learning that, you know, health these days is a integrated health, right.
That means eating more plant-based diet, as well as doing your exercise, meditation, getting adequate sleep, all those play a role into our health.
Passionistas: And so how does that translate into what you do for a living?
Amy: Understanding that everything is integrative, right. I always talk to my clients and remind them that CBD will fast-track your health to where you want it to be, but will slow down depending on your other health lifestyle habits. So for example, let's say two people are battling, you know, hormonal imbalance. And if one is doing everything, having healthy habits in terms of sleep, exercise, diet, and let's say spiritually, they're going to be healthier, faster.
However, if one is not adapting to those, you know, healthier lifestyle habits, it will take much longer. So that's how it all relates. And I think that we're all learning that as we go now, especially with COVID around.
Passionistas: Well, let's take a little step back. Tell us where you grew up and what your childhood was like.
Amy: I grew up in New York City, born and raised right in Chinatown. And being in a Chinese household, we didn't really speak much about health. We didn't speak much about feelings and emotions as well in a Chinese household. So for me, growing up now as a mom and being diagnosed with anxiety and postpartum depression was very new to me.
I was very thankful it was diagnosed by my marriage therapist because I was not aware of the symptoms because we never spoke about it in my household. And that's why I love talking about it. Because now that I realize when it was diagnosed, I can then treat it. I can address it and take care of myself. When I didn't know what it was at the time, I just thought, oh, this is part of motherhood. This is something that I have to learn to deal with. And I assumed that this was just how it was.
So I was very thankful it was diagnosed. And it was my marriage therapist who recommended CBD to me because I was leaning toward a more holistic life after being a mom. And I was not having good reactions from pharmaceutical meds. So I was very thankful that she did recommend something that was more holistic.
And this was about eight years ago. At the time that was when you actually had to get a medical card to get CBD. And I got my card and started taking CBD. And that's when my life changed.
It went from that cranky, irritable yelling mom that flew off the handle. And I hated who I was. I hated how I was with my children. And once I started taking CBD, I became so much more patient, so much more present and mindful. I was able to enjoy the time when I was interacting with my kids and realize, oh my goodness, life can be like this. It didn't have to be the way it was before. And when I felt that change in myself, it was so eye opening.
I was finally able to respond to the days, you know, challenges instead of reacting. And once I felt that calm and ease, I was just like, I knew that I had to get the word out there. Because I knew that if I one, didn't also knew I had anxiety and postpartum depression, I was sure that other moms out there maybe going through the same thing, and may not be aware of it. And knowing that there's a natural alternative out there with no side effects, it is such a big, great help. And so that's how I started Calm Better Days, to help people find their calm better day.
I know we go through that a lot where we're just living and, you know, suffering from something, right. Everyone's suffering from something, whether it's pain, whether it's mental, whether it's, you know, different health conditions. And that's the great thing about CBD is that it can address so many different issues, so many different health issues. You almost wonder how can it be?
How can it be so wonderful that it addresses so many different health issues from anxiety, epilepsy, Alzheimers, heart disease, arthritis. It's almost too good to be true, but it really does.
Passionistas: So I think there are misconceptions about what CBD is, and especially as it relates to cannabis and marijuana and people getting high and all that. So can you kind of talk about the myth of CBD and clarify for people that are listening, what it is?
Amy: Absolutely. So CBD and THC, there are both cannabinoids found in a cannabis plant. And THC is the cannabinoid known to get you euphorically high and CBD does not get you euphorically high. They are however, both cycle active in the sense that if I have depression, a person who takes CBD, their moods and feelings will be elevated in terms of not feeling depressed, however, not intoxicated.
So that's the big difference between CBD and THC. And because you don't get that euphoric high with CBD, a lot of people sometimes don't know when it's working. Because with THC, you know it's working when you get that euphoric high. But with CBD, because you're not getting that euphoric high people are like, well, what am I supposed to be feeling?
And so I describe it as you know it's working when you're not feeling the negative symptoms that you're normally experiencing. So that can be that anxiety, right. With anxiety might come that overwhelm, that high level of stress, that tightness in your chest, or pain for some people, right. So when you're not feeling those negative symptoms anymore, that's when you know CBD is working. It makes you feel normal, not suffering.
CBD is a potent bioaccumulator. So what that means is, it's going to soak up all the toxins in the soil, which can be heavy metal, fungi, mold, pesticide, mycotoxins. These are things we do not want to ingest. So always buy organic. And you know, hemp is such a potent bioaccumulator, they actually planted at Chernobyl to clean up the soil from the radiation.
So if you're not buying organic and you're not looking at the certificate of analysis that every quality CBD product comes with, you can be ingesting toxins that will set off at another health condition.
Passionistas: Is that what inspired you to found Calm Better Days? And what was the process of starting it? And what's your mission?
Amy: I started Calm Better Days at the end of 2019, right before the pandemic started. So what happened was in 2018, the Farm Bill was passed. So CBD was federally legal and you did not need a medical card anymore to buy CBD. So that's when we saw that the market was getting saturated. We saw CBD products everywhere. And I saw two issues for new consumers.
And that was one: because CBD was so new, not everyone understood how to properly use CBD to really access the benefits from the plan. And then two: because it's such a saturated market now, finding a safe and quality product was another unknown for new consumers. And so that's when I wanted to address both issues.
So, what I do is... people can sign up for a virtual consultation, so it can be done anywhere, any state. And I walk people through the basics because if you don't understand the basics, you're not going to really be able to access and understand the plant fully. So when I say the basics, I mean, what is CBD? How does it work in your body that it can address so many different symptoms? And then walking the person through the different delivery methods between tinctures, edibles, vaporizers. What are their different activation times and how long they last for in your body? Understanding that makes it easier for you to develop a routine that works for you.
And then also understanding your dosage. Everybody's dosage is very unique. And we're used to going to a doctor's office, let's say. And your doctor says, let's say you're starting an SSRI. We'll start you on a certain milligram. And the doctor will say, well, come back in a month and let's see how that works, and we'll adjust the dosage if necessary. And with plant medicine, it's no different, except that you're able to... if you're able to track and learn to read what your body is telling you, your body will tell you how much CBD you need. And I teach, you know, people that tracking system so that they can find out what works best for themselves.
And lastly, after the education portion, I take a look at your specific health condition to recommend the best products for you. Everybody suffers from different things. And, you know, we're learning that CBD is just scratching the surface. There are other cannabinoids and other turpines that play a role in each product and, and the effect.
So if you're telling me your issue is say Crohn's disease or a gut issue, then there is a cannabinoid CBG that is great for that, that will help clean up the gut, promote good gut flora, and also help with digestive issues. But let's say your issue is sleep. Then there is another cannabinoid, CBN, that is great for that.
So this cuts down on time and money for the consumer because now they don't have to waste money on thinking, well, I think this product might work for me. And then also, you know, they're finding relief faster because now that they have the products in hand that are right for them, now they know how to use it as well.
So that's how Calm Better Days was born and the mission behind it. I also carry about 15 to 20 different brands. And I support and focus on small farmed, women own and BIPOC owned brands. One, I believe that small farm that's where the quality is. I don't believe in, you know, huge commercial grows. The standards are very different, as well as you know, I like to look into the company's mission. I want to make sure that they're really about helping people and growing quality product. And that's why I believe that, you know, especially people new to this industry, right. They may not be aware of the history behind it and what goes on. So I want to steer them toward good quality companies that are, you know, really focus on the quality of the product and really helping people.
Passionistas: So how do you go from being diagnosed, that this is a treatment that will work for you as an individual, to gaining all this knowledge that you now have, where you can help other people? What kind of studying and practices did you do to get to this place?
Amy: Before I started CBD, I was a cannabis enthusiast. And once I discovered the CBD side, I was just blown away. I was like, is there anything this plant cannot do? And it was when I felt the results with CBD, that I started diving into it myself, doing all the research possible. And once I knew what I wanted to do and start my company, I then became cannabis licensed with Dr. Mary Clifton. She is a board certified internal doctor who specializes in cannabis.
And the studies don't stop because every day we're now finding new studies, right? Because now we can study the plant. Before we were not able to study the plant because it was, you know, it's still a Schedule 1 drug, and that's why there are no studies beforehand.
But like I was saying, now studies are coming out. So it doesn't stop. And every day there are new industry trends that I need to keep up on. But I love, I love finding out all this information. So I take what I've, you know, been consuming myself for years, as well as the studies that are now available, and apply that to people who are looking for new alternatives to health.
Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about the pop-ups that you do..
Amy: So I do a lot of pop-ups. I don't have a brick and mortar store, so I do a lot of pop-ups. Especially at women networking events, because, you know, I am a mom. And I know that moms ,we take on so much that our anxiety and stress is... I think a lot of moms suffer.
So I'm hoping one day we'll have a brick and mortar so that I can do more explaining and education in the store. I find that right now, although people are in need of it, I think because we're all so busy right now with COVID and everything is online, we're just too busy to sometimes even have that consultation. Or even too busy to go online to order things. So pop-ups are helpful to be right in front of them.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and you're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Amy Chin. To learn more about her CBD related personal events, group and individual consultations, and pop-ups, visit calmbetterdays.co.
If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us to continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting thepassionistasproject.com/podcast and clicking on the patron button. Even $1 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions.
Now here's more of our interview with Amy.
You talked a little bit about the different forms that people can take CBD in. Can you kind of talk a little bit more in detail about that?
Amy: So back then the only, not the only, but the most common way was through inhalation, smoking a joint or a blunt. Nowadays, we have vaporizers. And I love vaporizers because one, you're not burning carcinogens. Like before with the joint you had the paper, the flour is all burning and that's consuming carcinogens. Which I want to save my throat, so I don't consume flower anymore in that form, but I do use vaporizers.
There's no scent to it. There is no carcinogens in my throat, so it saves my throat. But also I love it because it provides the quickest onset. So you'll feel it within 5 to 10 minutes. And this is great for, let's say a person suffering from panic attacks or anxiety attacks, and they need that quick relief. Or maybe they have severe, intense back pain that they need real quick relief from. The vaporizer will get to that quickest.
But I also understand that, you know, for some people they just don't want to inhale anything. And that's where, you know, the industry has been so innovative in the different formats that CBD comes in.
So there are edibles. And edibles are gummies, honey, chocolate, anything that needs to go through your stomach and liver to metabolize. But because it has to go through your stomach, it will take much longer to kick in. So it takes about 30 to 90 minutes. But people love it because it's portable. It's easy to consume. You just, if it's a gummy, you could put it in your bag, just pop one when you need it. And, it does last much longer than a vaporizer. It can last from 4 to 6 hours, even 8 hours for some people.
So when we think about different delivery methods, you want to think about what's going to make it easy for us to consume on a daily basis. Because then you make it easy as part of your routine. But if you're doing something that you don't like, and it's difficult, then it doesn't become part of your routine.
So other formats are tinctures. Tinctures are CBD suspended in MCT oil. And it comes in a bottle with a dropper. And normally you want to drop it underneath your tongue. Hold it there for 60 seconds before you swallow. And that allows it to be absorbed into your bloodstream and will take about 20 to 40 minutes to activate. And will last about four hours.
And when I talk about delivery methods, there is a time and place for everything. So what I mean by that is we want to think about our situation, what we need to address, and then also about the place where we're at, right? Because we want it to be easy and convenient.
Once I wake up. That's when my anxiety and depression is at its worse, right. It's hard to be motivated. I'm, you know, don't want to get out of bed. And it's hard for me to be focused and productive. So I know right away in the morning, I either use my vaporizer or my tincture because I want to set the tone for my day. And I want it to be quick to get out of that slump and kind of like jumpstart my day. So, I either do one of those two things.
And then after that, because I know it lasts for about four hours and I work at home, thankfully. So that's when I take an edible. I pop a gummy right before my lunch, because I know I have a long afternoon ahead and I don't want to have to think about redosing. And I take it right before my lunch, because I want it to go down with the good fat from my diet. Because then your body will absorb more of the CBD and also quicker, versus taking it on an empty stomach where your stomach acids might get to it first, or after a full meal where your liver just has to metabolize more.
And then after the gummy wears off is probably around dinner time/after dinner. And it depends on what I need to do. If I need to do more, then I'll dose accordingly. But let's say, you know, I put in a hard day's work. I really want to relax. I don't want to think about work, then I can also do something relaxing, like a tea to kind of like set the mood for my night. Set myself up for good sleep and have a really relaxing night.
And that's a great thing about it. Is that now with so many different products, it feels like a self treat. I can do an afternoon little chocolate piece or, you know, have my tea, right. Or maybe it's honey drizzled on top or fruit as my dessert after dinner. So there are different ways of consuming it. And not only that, but after my shower, you know, my muscles usually there's like soreness or stress from my neck down. And I love after a shower putting on a good CBD lotion just to melt all that tension, all that stress away. And that also eases me into my, you know, good nights rest.
Passionistas: I think everybody associates weed with patchouli. Like these creams and the tinctures and everything. Do they smell like cannabis or do they come now in like lavender?
Amy: They do. They come in so many different formats, so many different scents, and I love it. I have this one by Common Ground and it's bergamot and I love bergamot. And it goes on so smooth, so luxurious. So satiny too. I'm loving the creams that they come up with now because it doesn't smell like cannabis and it goes on so nice. It feels like any other luxurious cream, you wouldn't . Even know that it's, you know, specifically CBD. Not only does it smell great, but it really helps ease that tension, melt away any stress or pain that you may have.
It's great because it's anti-inflammatory, which can be acne, rosacea, the redness, right. That's all inflammation. So that takes care of that. It also regulates your sebum control. So back then, when I was hormonally imbalanced, I had horrible cystic acne. My face would get shiny in an hour because I was over producing oil. So the CBD oil helps balance out your sebum. So instead of over-producing oil, it was balancing that out. So now my face doesn't get shiny in an hour. And also my cystic acne, it would hurt less because the CBD oil was taking care of the pain, as well as the inflammation. So CBD facial oil is also anti-aging and anti-oxidant. So it's great for the face. And I use it every day.
It's cleaned up my skin regimen. Like before I used to apply so much acne medication, so many different retinals this and that. Now is just double cleanse and the facial moisturizers, CBD facial moisturizer and nothing else. It will take out the puffiness. I have an eye serum. And also for dark spots. Because it quickens the cellular turnover, so the dark spots will fade quicker as well. So it's cut down my steps and products. I love it. I recommend it for everyone.
Passionistas: What if someone is on traditional medication? Are there interactions that they should speak with a doctor about before starting a regimen?
Amy: Always speak with your doctor especially when you are on pharmaceutical drugs. And on my website, I have a partnership with Leaf411, which is a nonprofit organization of cannabis nurses. So what that means is you can call them and say, you know, you were referred from Calm Better Days. And that makes the call free. You do have to pay for the service, but because I have the partnership, it is free.
And what you can do is say, "I am on medication X, Y, Z. Will CBD interact with it?" For the most part, CBD does not interact with most drugs. The only concern is if you are on blood thinners or blood pressure medication. Anything that interacts with grapefruit and you cannot take, CBD works like that grapefruit. It's, an enzyme inhibitor. So that you would have to watch.
Passionistas: You talked a little bit about how your personal life has changed from making this discovery. But tell us a little bit more about, kind of, the transformation you personally have made since you started using CBD in this way.
Amy: Well, let's see, I've been on it for about, CBD specifically, for over eight years now. Cannabis in general, probably over a decade. So I have now become a more mindful person, definitely more aware about my health. And this was also after becoming a mom, more holistic, more plant-based. Because when I was at my darkest point with anxiety and postpartum depression, that's when my health was out of balance. I was hormonally imbalanced. I wasn't eating right at that time.
So during the time when I was consuming CBD was also when I was making healthier lifestyle changes in terms of my diet, more plant-based. And as a mom, you know, I know I'm supposed to exercise more and also get adequate sleep. However, it's very hard to fit those two things in as a busy mom, also running her own company.
And I know that, right. And that is why I make sure to take my CBD every day. So at least then my body won't crack from not doing the things that I know I'm supposed to do. If I can, I do try to, of course do it. But in terms of lifestyle, that's how it's changed. I'm more aware of what I do need to do, as well as my mental state.
I would say before CBD, I felt like my life felt like, you know, how, when you're that hamster on the hamster wheel and it's constantly going. And you just feel that you have to. And then once I took CBD, it kind of took me out of that hamster wheel and I could see, oh my gosh, I'm that hamster. And it didn't have to be like that.
It allowed me to have calmness and mindfulness so I can see and be aware of what goes on in my life. And the funny thing is, you know, they always suggest therapy and all that. And I have been going to years of that and try to practice meditation and yoga, but my mind would not be still. And I just could not tap into it no matter how hard I tried. But with the CBD, I was able to finally tap into that and calm my mind and be aware of everything that was going on, so that now if I take CBD before a yoga session or a meditation, it just enhances that session because now I can really focus in and tap into that. Whereas before I just could not calm my mind to, to focus in on that.
Passionistas: Do you find that people are, like who don't get it, who don't understand it personally, like are judgmental about the concept of CBD? And how do you address people who come at you in that way?
Amy: Absolutely. I get a lot of people who don't understand it. And that's why I love to talk about it. And I get that they don't understand it. And sometimes it comes with, of course, you don't get it because you don't have the basic fundamentals. And, and that's why I'm here to help you understand that, because I feel that once you understand that, then everything starts clicking. And then after that is you have to experiment and try it.
And you know, we've been so conditioned as a society to think that, okay, a doctor is here, they prescribe medicine. And then you just take it blindly, right? And with plant medicine, it's a different approach in that you can do it yourself, but you have to be patient. You have to be open to it and you have to be open to tracking it so that you can tell yourself, well, how much does my body need?
But we haven't listened to our bodies in so long that it seems like a new practice. And we have to remember that herbs, cannabis, that was the original medicine of days long ago before pharmaceutical medicine was made in a lab. So we have to understand that that's what we started with and it's going back to that.
And I understand sometimes even with the education, it may still be hard to understand. But once that person tries it and they feel it, then that is like, I'm hooked now. Now I want to understand more and dive into it more. And sometimes it's all about finding the right dosage to get you there. Or finding the right product because everyone is going to respond differently to a vaporizer versus a tincture versus an edible. You know, for some people edibles, for whatever reason, doesn't work for them, for their body, their genetic makeup. So sometimes that's when a vaporizer can really help.
And I love vaporizers because I find that because of the quick onset, that people really feel it. Where sometimes when they're waiting for an edible to kick in, they forget that they're waiting and then the day goes by and then they're not mindful of, oh, my day actually went by smoother. I wasn't blowing up at everything, right. But sometimes people don't notice that because we're not mindful.
We're not reading what our body is telling us. And usually we only hear what our body is telling us when it's screaming, right. And that's when it's like suffering from a pain or suffering from something that happened in our body.
Passionistas: From all the people that you've worked with, is there like one specific example that you can think of as like a success story that you're especially blown away by?
Amy: Well, right now, a lot of clients are coming to me for sleep issues and stress issues and actually gut issues. Well, gut and mind is all related. So that's why stress and gut health are like hand in hand. And that's why a lot of people are coming for that.
But sleep. So I've seen a lot of people come back and say, you know what? I've been getting good sleep. And stress has been lowered. I've had a lot of clients who were on pharmaceutical meds for anxiety, stress, depression, and have weaned off of it. When I hear that they've weaned off of pharmaceutical meds and still feeling great, I am so happy because I know that they're feeling better because they're no longer feeling the side effects from the pharmaceutical drugs. Which was the main reason why a lot of them wanted to get off of that.
So when I hear that, I just know that, you know, that makes me feel wonderful that I'm actually helping people feel better.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Amy Chin. To learn more about her CBD related personal events, group and individual consultations, and pop-ups visit calmbetterdays.co.
Please visit thepassionistasproject.com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box, filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. This quarter's box is a collaboration with the MOB Nation and features products from mom owned business. Get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription using the code SPRINGGOODIES. And be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast, so you don't miss any of our upcoming, inspiring guests.
Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.
Tuesday Mar 08, 2022
Cairo Eubanks Is on a Mission to Nurture a Global Community of Leaders
Tuesday Mar 08, 2022
Tuesday Mar 08, 2022
Cairo Eubanks is the new Future Foundation Youth Representative to the United Nations and Youth Steering Committee Member. She is also the Global Correspondent for the Global Oved Dei Seminary and University (GODSU). A curriculum developer, Cairo's created programs for students in Tamil Nadu, South India, and Broward County, Florida, which is the foundation for Bringing the World to Florida. Cairo received a Proclamation from Mayor Dale Holness and the Rising Star Award from Mayor Wayne Messam for her community work and program development that foster leadership development and culture exchange. She reigns as Miss Back Florida USA 2022 for Miss Black USA. Cairo is on a mission to nurture a global community of leaders and professionals by strengthening their voice and confidence.
Learn more about Cairo.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
Full Transcript:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and today we're talking with Cairo Eubanks, the New Future Foundation Youth Representative to the United Nations and Youth Steering Committee member. Cairo is also the Global Correspondent for the Global Oved Dei Seminary and University, GODSU.
A curriculum developer, Cairo's created programs for students in Tamil Nadu, South India and Broward County, Florida, which is the foundation for Bringing the World to Florida. Cairo received a proclamation from Mayor Dale Holness on October 10th, 2020, and The Rising Star Award from Mayor Wayne Messam for her community work and program development that fosters leadership development and cultural exchange.
She reigns as Miss Black Florida USA 2022 for Miss Black USA. She's on a mission to nurture a global community of leaders and professionals by strengthening their voice and confidence. So please welcome to the show, Cairo Eubanks.
Cairo: Hi Amy! Hi Nancy! Thank you so much for having me.
Passionistas: We're so excited to have you and to learn more about all of the amazing things you're doing. We like to start by asking, what's the one thing you're most passionate about?
Cairo: Oh, that is a fantastic question. I would say what I am most passionate about would be... can I have two? I'd like to put two into one answer, and it would be leadership development and cultural exchange. And just based off of the experiences that I've had as a Jamaican and American, as a dual citizen, and getting to travel the world. I've had the honor and privilege of getting to travel to about 26 countries by the age of 26.
The lessons that I've learned as it relates to the dialogue conversation, the importance of being able to connect with others and use your story is what makes me so passionate, because I realized the weight or the power and the value that comes with telling your story. So when I talk about leadership development and cultural exchange, it really ties in together with my passion of being able to help people tell their story and to tell it with enthusiasm.
Passionistas: What has inspired all of this travel and how have you been able to do that?
Cairo: I believe that when people ask me that question, it's always great to start at the beginning, right? And when you think about my name, Cairo, my parents, they wanted me to have an Afro-centric name that tied me back to the African continent.
And they did this, not just with myself, but also with my siblings. So I'm Cairo like Egypt. My sister is Sudan like the country because she's 14, she's a whole country within herself. And then my brother Dakar, like Senegal. And they wanted us to really have curiosity and to learn, you know, be more curious about our heritage and realize that our connection to Africa, you know, is still there. And so by having my name Cairo, I wanted to not only go to Egypt, I wanted to go to Senegal, I wanted to go to Sudan as a young child.
And then on top of that with my mother being Jamaican, I would go to Jamaica for days, weeks, months at of time. And the experiences that I got to have living with my grandparents, getting to hear stories about, you know, how they saw the world, right, relative to how my family in the United States, from my American side, saw the world. And also some of the similarities are the commonalities that they shared. It really helped me realize that no matter where I was in the world, I always felt at home. And, you know, I really credit that to my parents being from two different countries.
But then on top of that, you know, having my name, getting a little taste of the world and getting to be, you know, throughout the Caribbean, because of my mom being Jamaican, it made me realize that I wanted to see more and I want it to learn more about the world around me. And so I got opportunities to study abroad and to travel abroad, most notably with Semester at Sea.
So when I was a junior in college, I got this opportunity to go to, let's say it was about 10 different countries and, you know, three different continents. So we were actually in, well, actually more than that, we were in Europe, we were in Africa and then we were also throughout the Americas, as well as.
Just the experiences that I had, it really helped me realize, wow, I can do this. It's not so daunting to get to be able to get your visa or to get to travel. And, I mean, the stories I can go on and on about some of those memories that I had. But it really inspired me to continue to travel and to combine my love for traveling with my passion for education and leadership development.
So after I had that experience at Semester at Sea, actually during that time, I had a conversation with a professor who told me about opportunities to get to teach abroad and to work with non-profits internationally. And that's how I got that opportunity to teach in Tamil Nadu, India. And when I was creating public speaking workshops for students that were targeting on their development, their personal and professional development, I had some incredible conversations about discrimination, about prejudice, but also about, you know, different traditions and what made our, you know, different cultures, so unique, but also what did we have in common.
And just these experiences as a whole. And I'm trying to bring you up back to, you know, the present, but, you know, seeing that origin story of having my name, recognizing that my name connected me to the world around me, and then recognizing that those experiences that I had getting to travel the world. I then knew that it was then my mission to create opportunities for others, especially younger generations to have those same experiences.
Passionistas: So you're a Global Correspondent for GODSU. So tell us about that organization and the work you do with them.
Cairo: Absolutely. So as the Global Correspondent for Global Oved Dei Seminary and University, it's an interstate e-learning institution. And a lot of the work that I do outside of representing GODSU at different conferences. So most notably we were the first sponsor of the African Investment and Trade panel for the Florida International Trade and Cultural Expo. We were able to have dignitaries from, you know, six different African countries, throughout the continent, come together and talk about trade and opportunities to get to invest in their countries.
So that's a lot of the work that I've done, either being able to promote, you know, international trade opportunities that exist throughout the African diaspora. That's a lot of the work that we do in terms of, you know, different conferences that we host different events that we're part of. And then also being able to host some of the Empower U Conferences that we have here at GODSU.
So it's like, there are a lot of different things that I do, but it's all titled and really targeted towards international development and empowerment as well.
Passionistas: So you're also a Youth Representative for the UN. So tell us how you got involved with that and what exactly do you do?
Cairo: Yes. So I'm a Youth Representative for New Future Foundation to the United nations. So I represent my NGO. And the way that that happened, it's actually connected to GODSU. It's a funny story.
So I was speaking, I was hosting one of the Empower U conferences, and we had a guest speaker. Her name is Queen Mother Dr. Delois Blakely, and she has been affiliated with the UN for over 50 years. And she is a UN goodwill ambassador to Africa for the African continent.
And so when I had the pleasure of getting to hear her speak as a panelist, I just said, you know what? At the time I was in college, I wanted to be connected. I wanted to be able to intern in some way and just get as close to the headquarters as possible, because I knew that my, as you can see my passion for development, is really, has a global focus. And I thought, what better place than to get to be in that, in that space, at the UN? And so I pulled her aside after the conference and I just told her, I said, "Queen Mother, I want to work with you. I want to learn. I want to be mentored by you."
And it's actually quite interesting because that opportunity of asking for help or asking for guidance and just telling her, you know, as a young 20-something year old, I wanted to be able to grow from, you know, being under her tutelage. She allowed me to be first an intern for her NGO and then a Youth Representative. And then I had the opportunity to be selected for the Youth Representative Steering Committee under the United Nations Department of Global Communication 's Civil Society Unit.
And so when I got the opportunity to be on this committee where it's about, I want to say about 25 different youth representatives that represent different NGOs all across the world. And we are the voice and we advocate for the youth perspective as it relates to, you know, civil society or the community.
So I say all of that, just to say that I got... I went from approaching her as someone who just wanted to learn and just, teach me and I want to learn anything. I'll send in reports, whatever you need me to do, Queen Mother, to then being able to progress where I'm on the committee and I'm representing my NGO for the second term, as of actually this month. So that's a huge blessing.
Passionistas: You mentioned your travel to Tamil Nadu in India. Tell us what the mission was on that journey and what you took away from that experience.
Cairo: So I had had a capstone project as an Omprakash Ambassador to create public speaking workshops and to see how we can be able to use public speaking as a part of breaking the cycle of poverty. Because the program that I was working with and the organization that I was working with in South India, they had this concept of education breaking the cycle of poverty and being able to empower others using knowledge. And so they would create opportunities for students to be able to get scholarships, or education, and be able to then provide for their families by giving them enough education of skills to complete undergrad, and then be able to then give back to their immediate families.
So that being said, when I learned about this mission of the school, I realized that I wanted to create, you know, leadership programs. And I had done them in the past, but I never created something on this scale where it would actually be a part of my capstone project and I'd be doing research on it. And so I got guidance.
Guess that ties right back into the previous question about Queen Mother Dr. Blakely as to how to proceed for that research. And next thing, you know, I submitted my proposal and it was accepted and, then the next thing you know, I'm in Bangalore, India, and then traveling to Hosur.
And I, and it was wonderful being able to work with the high school students that I did. Getting to use the program that I created, you know, weekly. The public speaking workshops that then became the foundation for what I'm doing right now, which is bringing the world to Florida and international virtual student exchange program. So I feel like, I feel like with every question I'm trying to bring it full circle to bring you to where it first started, and then how it got me here today.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and you're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Cairo Eubanks. To learn more about her mission to nurture a global community of leaders and professionals by strengthening their voice and confidence visit cairospeaks.com.
If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us to continue to create an inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting thepassionistasproject.com/podcast and clicking on the Patron button. Even $1 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions.
Now here's more of our interview with Cairo.
So tell us about the work you're doing in Florida.
Cairo: Absolutely. Okay. So not only am I Miss Black Florida, and I have different communities, or I should say different committees rather, that I'm a part of including the Broward County Social Justice Task Force. I was on the Mayor's Public Safety Council and more. So I say all of this to say that I have a vast interest in being a part of the community and finding solutions to the communities, you know, any issues that may arise.
And so the story for Bringing the World to Florida really began when I had an issue that I created an event out of, and it inspired students to then ask me to create a curriculum. And the event was unfortunately birthed out of cyber harassment.
So there was a guy on my campus and I'm just going to call him Andrew, just for the sake of argument or for a conversation. And Andrew had been trying to, you know, reach out to me and I would block him and whatnot. I didn't really know too much about him. I just knew that there was something like, kinda off about him. And I didn't, I didn't really feel comfortable around him. And I found out from someone I didn't even know because I didn't have Instagram at the time. But he had taken my pictures off of Facebook. I don't even know. I don't, we're not even friends on Facebook. He took my pictures off of Facebook and he posted them on a lewd Instagram account that he created himself. And so, not only was my picture up there, and someone sent me a screenshot, but there were other people from my school, other people in my sorority and more. And I got so upset about this, and I said, something has to be done.
Many of them had actually filed police reports because he had created a fake academic study. It's ridiculous. He created a fake academic study to try to solicit explicit photos or to give them, and he said that he had faculty permission to do so. So this is, yeah, so that was a situation.
And I created a Facebook post and 150 comments later, we had about 30 plus individuals who were able to provide like a compilation of screenshots of things that I was able to say, you know, what. Even though they provided this to the police and they did, you know, police reports or they would report it to the school, or to his then fraternity. It just didn't feel like there was enough.
And so I said, what can I do? What can I do so that not only do I not feel stuck, but also other people do not feel stuck as well. Because he was not only doing this to me and all those other individuals, but we know that he was also harassing others online. And some people were saying that there were issues where they felt like he was stalking them, like he was trying to follow them home.
So we said, you know what? We need to take preventative measures. And how can I do that? Create a community event for resources for students. So teens, incoming freshmen, sophomores, and then parents. And it became a huge success.
We had partners with the Anti-Defamation League. We had the Broward Sheriff's Office. We had the Broward School Climate Action and Discipline Department among other organizations and partners, both locally and nationally. And then we had kids who said, "you know what? We love this. Can you come to my school? Like, you know, I don't even want community service hours for this. Let me get you to my school." And we said, you know what?
This was intended to be a one-time event. But what I did was I used the students who had been part of the program and I said, okay, "what kind of curriculum do you want to see? What sort of programs would you like to see that do not exist in your school at this time or within the community that you haven't found?"
And we surveyed them and we took their answers. And then we created a whole course wrapped around some of the answers that they asked for. So we have a curriculum that's self-paced, we have workshops and events and conferences like Operation Stop Cyber Harassment. So that's now a part of our Asking for Help Module. And then we have other opportunities for skill building as well for the kids, so that they can take what they learn in the curriculum and actually get apply it.
Passionistas: You are also Miss Black Florida USA, as part of the Miss Black USA Organization. So tell us how you got involved with that and what you do to challenge the misconceptions about title holders in the organization.
Cairo: Oh, my goodness. My story is quite interesting. Okay. So, the short version of this, because I do want to keep this brief and get to the whole point of the misconceptions. That's really what I want to focus on. But it began in 2020 when I competed in my first competition, for Miss Broward County for Miss America.
So I competed and I won on my first try and that was a huge blessing for me. And it was big for me because I had never seen myself as a pageant queen prior to competing for this. And if it had not been for my mother, if it had not been for those around me, who said, you know what? This is your last year. You're going to age out. You might as well try it out. You'll get a good experience. You can use that towards, you know, programs that you're creating, et cetera. I just decided to take a leap. And then was shocked. I was shocked.
That being said, I was competing and preparing for Miss Florida. And I remember the opportunity that came up for Miss Florida for Miss America. I was getting ready. It was June, 2021, and literally three days before my competition, I had a rocking chair like roll over my foot and crushed it. And I got nerve damage in my foot. So I was like literally in a scooter all through competition week and it was tough. And I ended up not being Miss Florida for Miss America.
And I remember thinking to myself. I was like, you know, God had told me, and I'm a spiritual person, right? So I talk about God, but you know, God had told me that he saw that I was going to be a state title holder. And he said that "you were still going to be able to create and move your project, Bringing the World to Florida as a state title holder."
And I applied, I actually got asked. It's so funny cause I got asked to send in my information and they had allowed me to be on the spot accepted. So I sent in some application information, but I ended up accepting the role. And I really appreciated just the opportunity that I got to then, you know, be able to be Miss Black Florida and to get to promote what it means to really be a state ambassador and to promote, you know, not just the wonderful things that people associate with Florida. Which of course is, you know, we have Disney, we have Orlando, we have Miami, we have the beaches, we have the Everglades. Yes.
But we also have business. We also have culture here that you cannot find anywhere else. So that being said, one misconception that I believe a lot of people have about pageant queens in general, is that it's just about looks, you know, and it's not just about looks. And I believe that a lot of these competitions, they're purposefully, really showcasing that it's not just about how you look when you see some of the winners. For example, some of the different systems that exist like Zozibini Tunzi from Miss Universe, Miss Universe 2019. She is a Black South African woman with short cropped hair. And no one had ever seen someone like her, you know, take the world by storm as Miss Universe.
There's really a chance for us who have been seen as not necessarily the stereotypical or the traditional pageant queen to really showcase the other qualities or the characteristics that Queens have, like our ability and desire to be servant leaders, to be part of the community. I don't know anyone else who would say yes to community service opportunity faster than a pageant payment, honestly.
And it's because of the fact that we do want to be out there, and we realize that part of our responsibility is to be present and to be able to be a connector for the community. And, like, I can't even begin to describe to you the personal and professional development that I had.
And I know that there's some people who are like, what, like getting ready for Miss Broward County? Yeah, no it changed my life because it allowed me to be in that space where I had to learn something completely from scratch. And I had to be humble a hundred percent and be like, listen, I don't know how to walk in heels more than three inches high, you know? And I don't know how to do my makeup, but I learned. And it was a humbling experience to learn.
So there's some misconceptions, but I believe that the more that people learn about the stories, the tragedies, or the challenges that, you know, title holders have had individually and how they overcome that and how they use their stories to inspire others can help to balance out some of the misconceptions that people have about wearing a crown.
Passionistas: Where does this desire to be of service come from? Is this something that your family has always done? Did your parents teach you to think this way?
Cairo: Absolutely. My parents, they always instilled in me this idea or vision of being a servant leader and what it means to serve first. When we talk about leadership and what it means to be a leader, there's always people assuming like, oh, you have to be the loudest person up there and you have to be the one that's like telling everybody what to do. But oftentimes you can lead by example, and you can lead by example by serving others.
And because I grew up in a very, you know, spiritual household, it was this concept of being able to discover your passion of what, you know, God or the universe has intended for you to have, and then to be able to share that and to recognize that we're all connected. And if there's something that I can do to bless someone else or to be of service to someone else, then that allows me to also get blessed in return.
So we would say like a little saying, that we would say in my home and also in Jamaica, is this idea of like lotioning up your hands. Like if you lotion up someone else's hands, you end up getting moisturized too. And so it's just this concept. And the more that I got to do that and got to help others the better I felt. And the more I felt like I had a light to share with others, you know, and that inspires me and that keeps me going.
And so that's really where it comes from. It's like this family concept of servant leader and recognizing that the more that I get to be of service, the happier that I get to be. I don't know. I think it's a, win-win.
Passionistas: Tell us about CairoSpeaks/CairoWrites and what your mission is with those projects.
Cairo: Yes with CairoSpeaks/CairoWrites. So out of CairoSpeaks/CairoWrites. Okay. So let me back up a little bit. CairoSpeaks/CairoWrites, there are two parts to it.
CairoSpeaks. So there are leadership development and all-in speaking coaching aspects to, you know, the services that I provide there. And then also with CairoWrites, I've written biographies, I've ghost written material, as well for my clients. And I've also written speeches.
I would say that the best part about what I've done with CairoSpeaks/CairoWrites is that I have created a space for me to get to share like what I love most. And I've shared, you know, when it comes to the leadership development and cultural exchange. But also from not just from a youth perspective, but being able to be of service, to everyone.
So for example, I had an opportunity to be the keynote speaker for Martin Luther King Day for the city of Boca Raton this past month. And that was a huge blessing. And I got to, you know, inspire and empower with my keynote speech not just youth, but also people of all ages. And so a lot of the work that I'm doing right now and what I'm transitioning my business to doing is focusing a lot on, you know, speaking opportunities, sharing my message, sharing my light as-- my business partner Rena would say, "not dimmering your shimmer, but instead being able to show that shimmer everywhere"-- and being able to transition more into that route.
Just because a lot of the leadership development programs that I was doing at one point, I've now focused all of my energy into Bringing the Globe and Bringing the World to Florida.
Passionistas: What's your dream for women?
Cairo: My dream for women is to really understand their value. And that was a conversation that I was actually having prior to this interview and just realizations that I have even about myself. You know, I realized that, you know, someone can look at my bio or look at my background and look at the bullet points of, you know, my resume or my CV and say, wow, you know, this person has done so much. But that doesn't necessarily mean that that's how I necessarily could feel about myself.
And see, and I recognize that there are books that I've read, you know, talking about women who are CEOs and high performing executives. And the reality is that there are so many women who are working so, so hard and they have accomplished and achieved a lot and yet don't feel that way, you know? And so even though I do feel accomplished and everything like that, I took a moment today and I said, you know what? Wow, Look at how valuable I find myself to be. We have to remind each other of how valuable we are, way past what we can do on paper, but our hearts and our souls.
And that is what I would tell women today, is to recognize your value, recognize your value past a monetary dollar amount, and to realize that you are incredible just the way you are. And I know it sounds cliche to say that, but it is true. And we don't hear that enough. And if it is cliche, because we've heard it too many times, maybe it's gone out, you know, gone from one ear and out the other, but we really need to internalize that.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Cairo Eubanks. To learn more about her mission to nurture a global community of leaders and professionals by strengthening their voice and confidence visit cairospeaks.com.
Please visit thepassionistasproject.Com to learn more about our podcast and subscription box filled with products by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your path. Get a free mystery box with a one-year subscription by using the code SPRINGGOODIES. And be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming, inspiring guests.
Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.
Tuesday Feb 22, 2022
Comedian Nina G Has a No-Nonsense Approach to Disability Awareness
Tuesday Feb 22, 2022
Tuesday Feb 22, 2022
Nina G is a comedian, professional speaker and author of “Stutterer Interrupted” and the new book “Bay Area Stand-Up Comedy: A Humorous History.” She has been featured in or on everything from NPR's 51%, BBC's Ouch, Psychology Today, Tedx, multiple day time talk shows, Howard 100 News and the Stuttering John Podcast.
Nina shares her wit and wisdom with corporations, colleges, libraries, conferences and community events. Her no nonsense approach to disability awareness and acceptance helps to bring institutions, communities and individuals to deepen their understanding of the disability and bring practical approaches to making a more inclusive society.
Learn more about Nina.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and today we're talking with Nina G, a comedian, professional speaker, and author of Stutter Interrupted and her new book Bay Area Standup Comedy: A Humorous History.
She's been featured in and on everything from NPRs 51%, BBC's Ouch, Psychology Today, TEDx, multiple daytime talk shows, Howard 100 News, and even The Stuttering John Podcast. Nina shares her wit and wisdom with corporations, colleges, libraries, conferences, and community events. Her no-nonsense approach to disability awareness and acceptance helps institutions, communities, and individuals to deepen their understanding of disability and bring practical approaches to making a more inclusive society.
So please welcome to the show, Nina G.
Nina: Hi, th-th-thanks for having me.
Passionistas: We're so glad to have Nina here on the podcast. She was part of our comedy event last year, Chronically Funny, and we've been trying to get her on the show ever since.
Nina, what's the one thing you're most passionate about?
Nina: There are two things. One is stand up comedy and the other is d-d-d-disability rights, d-d-d-disability in general. So it's kind of like a head-to-head race there.
Passionistas: Tell us why those two things are such an important part of your life.
Nina: I mean cause they are my life. Like I am as a standup comic, who's stutters and has dyslexia. And I've loved comedy my entire life, and that's why I have the book, book out now on Bay Area comedy, because I'm also from the Bay Area. I'm from Alameda and I've lived in Oakland now for 20 years. Just love, love, love comedy. I've been doing it now for 12 years. So that's one thing.
Then also I'm fourth generation d-d-d-disabled on my dad's side. So my dad is hard of hearing. His dad was hard of hearing and his mom was hard of hearing. So since we've been in America from Italy, we've been d-d-d-disabled. And just knowing my own experiences, I went to Catholic school in the 1980s with dyslexia and stuttering. I could tell from your very Irish names that you may know some of that experience. And what I always say is that you should never pity me for having a disability, but you can pity me for going to Catholic school in the 1980s with those things, because that sucked.
And so I just hope that we can make a world that less sucks for people. And that may be through access, it may be through laws, it may be through services, or it may be through re-representation in the media, in Hollywood, in whatever. And hopefully I bring a little bit of that representation when I go to colleges, when I go to corporations or when I am telling a Dick joke in a dive bar. Like the representation should be everywhere.
Passionistas: Tell us when you first really became interested in standup and who were some of your early comedic influences?
Nina: Yes. Okay. So, I mean, I think I kind of found comedy when I was around like four or five, like my family. It was the seventies and my family was super into Steve, Steve Martin. And then as I got a little bit older, when I was like 7, 8, 9, my parents never put any restrictions on us around TV me, me and my brother, and they also just brought us in to watch whatever was on. So I would stay up and watch, like the old sa-Saturday Night Lives, which then old was like five years prior. And so I was exposed to all of that, to first cast and I have like a stuffed animal that I named gi-Gilda after gi-Gilda Radner.
So it was that kind of stuff. Very early influences. My first fan letter that I ever wrote was to Emo Phillips when I was 13. And he sent an autographed picture back and it hangs in my kitchen there. My kitchen is all of my comedy stuff. So just always loved it. Then when I was like 11, I was like, I think that I want to have this as my job. And I would write jokes and I planned to go to open mics, never went because at around 17, I was like, this is not very practical.
It is 1990s now. And I've never seen a stuttering comic. You have to be fluent in order to be a comic. So dream dies. I picked it back up when I was 36 and I've been doing, and I've been doing it now for 12 years.
Passionistas: How did you decide, "no, this is something I can do?
Nina: It's a, it was a whole fricking process. So when I was 35, I had attended a conference for people who stutter. It's the na-National Stuttering Association. And at that, I realized how much space I relinquished up to other people. I think as a woman, we are socialized to give that space up to others. And I realized at that, it got kind of doubled and tripled up because I'm a woman who's st-stutters.
And so I realized, like, I would feel guilt to make people sit through my speech, to make people sit through my stutter. And when I was at that conference, I was around all these women. And women in stuttering are way outnumbered by the men. And the ratio is for every four stutterers, three are going to be men, one's going to be a woman. So it was really important for me to be around women who stutter. Because I realized I was like, well, I wouldn't want them to relinquish space up to others. So why am I? And that just made me really question that.
And in my book, my memoir is titled Stutter Interrupted because we're interrupted all the time in our speech, but like I was self interrupting. Like I wasn't even talking, I was interrupting myself. And with that comes your wishes and your dreams and your desires and just everything. And so when I came back home from that conference, I started to make changes in my life.
And within six months I got up on stage at an open mic and did my first one.
Passionistas: What was that experience like to finally be on stage?
Nina: You know? It was to like three people, four people, five people. I don't know. It's a very small audience. I did it in the context of a class. So I took classes at this San Francisco co-comedy college, and then they had like an open mic that they would kind of like trick trick to tourists into coming into. And I, I'm not sure if it was that night or a night soon after people laughed at my jokes. And I was like, "oh, I did this joke about st-stuttering, do you st-stutter?" And she's like, "no, it's just funny." I was like, oh, you don't. Oh, okay, I get it. It's like that. So it was really great to make a connection with someone else and kind of share my own experience having a disability in a way that I kind of had control of the narrative.
And also so many times when you talk about a disability experience people like, "oh, oh." And they give you like a pity face. And like, everyone tries to be super empathetic. And like, I just want people to just talk about it in a normal way. Like they would everything else. So humor kind of helps to D D diffuse some of that. And it just kind of puts things on a more equal level.
Passionistas: Let's take a step back. So between the ages of 17 and 35, before you pursued your passion, you got involved with disability activism. So tell us a little bit about what you were doing and what that period meant to you.
Nina: You know, I went to grad school, I went to college, I did all of that stuff. And I found myself doing advocacy within the co-college and looking at access issues there. There are so many ways that we could penetrate issues around access, and issues around D D disability rights. And for me doing like the individual piece and working with an individual to get access, I think that is really important.
And I would work with students around accessibility. But, that's just one piece of it, but we need to get to a bigger change in our culture, a bigger change in corporations and bigger change in colleges and like just more of a cultural shift. And that cultural shift is both in America and the world, but also in your lo-lo-local area. And so, it would get kind of frustrating, because I didn't have that reach, especially this was pre so-social media and all of that stuff.
Also for me, I was in academia and academia is not always kind to people who learn in a different way. And for me, it's really hard because my dyslexia is, is more than my stuttering. Like it impacts me more. And also I was in sp-special ed when I was a kid, when I was in high school, cause I eventually went to a public school for high school. Thank God. And, so, I did not come from the same place that most people in academia did. But I still had a lot to say, but I really felt like I didn't have that freedom to express what I wanted to.
And also, my mom brought me to see Richard Pryor Live that the Sunset Strip when I was nine. Like I want to say fuck, and like, I just need to, and that helps me to express what I want. And I can say the same things that I might say in an academic sense, but I can say them on stage, and I can say the words that I want to use that I think, you know. Like someone can read a journal article and that's going to be read by like 10 people. But you can do comedy or you can find some other avenue that people will be able to access, and access meaning that people will actually see it. And, and I think it's just a better way to get, a, a, a message out.
So it's that frustration that I had in academia, I was able to, I was able to work out. And that's why I like my book, both of the books. It was great that I learned how to do research and it was great that I went through all of that, but I also didn't want to hide behind big words. And luckily I haven't had to.
Passionistas: So you did that first appearance. How did you start to build your career and extend your reach as a comedian?
Nina: Well, I like kind of kept it hidden from most people I knew for about six months. And then even then it was like slowly, slowly, slowly. The first year in comedy, you're developing your voice. And I wasn't sure which way I would go. And I don't quite know when it was, but I think it was like my second year in, I was like, I'm a disability activist and I'm a comic.
That disability activist thing is through my entire life. Like that's... when I walk down the street and I see a sandwich sign and it's blocking the way I was like, "what the hell is this? You got to move this!" And I move it or I tell them, or I do something. So like ingrained into my head and a big part of that is because of my family and being born into it.
So I realized that, like, that was the thing that kind of led me first. And comedy was a second piece. I think that I've kind of balanced that out a little bit more, but that activism piece is always, always, always there.
And so I think my development as a comic really helped me because I was able, like I'm able to do two things in comedy and now three. So I'm able to go to colleges, and I'm able to talk to them and also corporations to do disability awareness. So there's that. And that is like a half hour of comedy and story telling, and then like Q&A afterwards and the Q&A is always like the, the funnest part.
And then I have the other thing, which is like the pure art form of standup, where I can do dick jokes. Last night, I told jokes on the sidewalk of a San Francisco cafe. And it was totally fun and it was great, and I got to develop that more and just work on that. And then, you know, I have a bunch of shows coming up and so there's that piece where like, I feel I can be an artist there and I don't really have to like... like, there's not a lot of 48 year old stuttering comics on TV.
I don't think like, like I doubt they're going to give me a sitcom. I doubt like Netflix is not knocking down my door. They're not like, because my opinion is, is that Hollywood thinks that if you have more than one intersectional identity that people's heads are going to explode. Which is why a lot of the disabled comics out there are white men. So like, you know, like, I, I, I know where I'm at. So I feel I don't have to kind of compromise my standup because it's like, I'm not going on TV. I'm good.
The other piece now that I'm, that I'm transitioning into is as a comedy history consultant as an author. And that just kind of brings my love of comedy. And like when I was in school from like high school on, anytime that I had to write a paper, I would write a paper on comedy. So this is just the natural development of the thing I love. And, you know, you write a book, it kind of puts you as like, okay, this was, she's now an expert. Like I've been saying to everybody, I'm an expert for a long time. They don't believe me, but now I have a book that says that I have some in that.
And also I wrote it with my friend, OJ Patterson. I kind of tap out on standup around 1993 and then he picks it up from there. So he loves the old comedy and he has followed it so we co-complemented one another well on that.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and you're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Nina G To learn more about her performances, speaking engagements, and to get your copy of Bay Area Standup Comedy: A Humorous History, visit ninagcomedian.com.
If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting thepassionistasproject.com/podcast, and clicking on the patron button. Even $1 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions.
Now here's more of our interview with Nina G.
Tell us a little bit about the Comedians with Disabilities Act.
Nina: So that was started by my friend, who has passed away, but st-“Stutter Interrupted” is, it is dedicated to, to him. He so started it because there wasn't a grip, at least locally that featured only d-d-d-disabled comics.
And so it was Michael O'Connell, Eric, and Steve d-Danners as the first core. And then I, I joined, and some of the guys are, have been kind of in and out of comedy and we lost m-Michael. So we have expanded the group to have more of a showcase. And the showcase has included my, my, one of my best friends, Mean Dave, who is in recovery. And that is covered under the ADA, but people don't always talk about that. But you can access your rights and access, you know, all kinds of things because of that. So he brings that as a really important message. Jade Theriault, who's out of Berkeley, she does the sh-show a lot, and she uses a wheelchair, a-along with other comics. But not all stages in comedy are... not all of them are ramped.
So, like, to get even on the stage is an issue. And, also, to kind of bring that voice in, I think sometimes people, producers or comics or whatever, kind of think like, "oh, well that's disabled comedy." And like, like it's a different thing. No, it's just another kind of perspective, whether you're a man, whether you're a woman that, that you can bring.
And so it's, it's really nice to have the opportunity to do that in a group and also do it for people who want to hear it. Because I will do a show just with a stuttering audience, when I do stuff at a conference. And they get the premise and not the punchline. Like I don't even have to do the punchline because they're already with me at the premise.
And so it's just a different experience doing comedy for people who come from that same cu-culture and that same experience.
Passionistas: You touched on this a little bit, but as somebody who has such a deep knowledge of the history of comedy and your own experiences. You know, comedy is legendarily more difficult for women. And as you've been saying, there are a lot of challenges for comedians with disabilities. Do you feel like this is changing at all for women and for people in the disability community?
Nina: I think so. I think there's still a thing of, "well, like we only have one woman on the show, so that's good. We, we have enough." It was like, oh, why don't you just book people who are funny and the rest will come. But also people tend to book their friends. And so if it's a male producer, they're going to have more gu-gu-guy friends. And so there's that. And that's not always the case. And I think at least in the Bay Area, I think there's more of a consciousness around that, because the women have been bitching about this for centuries now, since we're now in the 21st century.
And so I think that they are getting that they need to have a more ba-balanced show in terms of the disability access. Like I have not seen Netflix have a compilation of disabled comics. I produced a CD, or not a CD, but an album called d-d-d-Disabled Comedy Only. And it featured the Comedians with d-d-d-Disability Act.
And that was the first one ever done of a compilation of disabled comics. That should not have happened. And there hasn't been one since. You know, HBO and Netflix and all of that, you got to have disabled comics, both in your mainstream, but also having a show where why doesn't like, you know, a famous d-d-d-disabled, comic bring in other comics to have a big show.
And I would love that. And it also, I think that Comedians with Disabilities Act was really conscious about the message that they send out. I also think it's equally as important for a disabled comic to get up and not talk about a disability whatsoever so that there is both, both of those things that should be happening.
Passionistas: How did COVID impact your work, and do you feel like things are finally getting back to normal now?
Nina: So it dried up my speaking gigs, because we were like, we don't know what to do now. And people have zoom fi-fatigue. So for me, when, when my first book, or when my memoir came out, it was great.
I was booked. I did, like, an event at Coca Cola. I sold books afterwards, making money. Like it was great. And then 2020 happened and like, oh! Like I need to talk to my st-student loan people to see if they'll base my income on last year's instead of on the prior years, cause there's such a change.
But I think people are seeing that there is a possibility to do events online. And so, yeah, I am traveling less, but I'm still doing, doing corporate and college shows. And some of those are picking up in, in person, too, so that's great. As a comic, I have performed into the void of Zoom and it's okay. Like it's really taught me to trust what I'm saying and to trust my comedy. Because there isn't the ha-ha's and they're, you know, not even the LOLs. And I always encourage people to do the LOLs in the tags so I get something out of it. So in, in, in, so that that's changed. I think lo-locally, comedy's opening up. I'm finding with doing book, book gigs, now that it's about half and half.
So releasing a book, which my book came out on February 14th. And yeah, it's a heck of a time to release a book because you're not going on a big tour. And so it'll be interesting to see how that rolls out.
Passionistas: You did have one unbelievably cool gig during the pandemic, which we're dying to hear about, right around the inauguration. Can you tell us about that?
Nina: Yeah! It was the first night of the inauguration festivities. I got asked to do a performance, and so it was all online. Like I wish I was at the White House, but no, it was all online. And what I did was I pre-taped it at the Alameda com-com-Comedy Club and we brought my pa-parents in, and, and I performed for them for the inauguration. So my parents were very happy to have the back of their heads in the screen as well. And so I did my five minute set there and sent it in and it got in with all of the other speakers, which included Whoopi Goldberg. Also, now I can say that I opened for the Vice President.
A lot of my comedy credits are so weird and so, un-un-unbelievable that people don't even think they're true when they're said. And opening up for the vice-president is one of them.
Passionistas: Speaking of home, let's talk about your new book, Bay Area Stand Up Comedy: A Humorous History. What inspired you to write it, and why is the history of Bay Area comedy so important?
Nina: Well, the thing that inspired it was being bored in the pandemic. So that was the biggest piece. I was finding that I was going toward like old comedy and watching that on YouTube. And also I was doing a project where I was interviewing comics about the pandemic. So asking them what that experience was like, to transition into Zoom, or what did they think was going to, was going to happen. So I did that under The Comedy Time Capsule.
And in doing that, I had interviewed ma-Marga Gomez, who is a staple in San Francisco comedy. She also comes out of the queer comedy scene and she was telling me about her past experiences and her own history. The first place that she felt she could really bring her whole self into, into her stand-up was at the, the, The va-Valencia Rose in San Francisco. And that was the first LGBT open mic. And they had LGBT shows and I was like, "oh, this is such an interesting history, and so is San Francisco!" I don't know this, and I'm a big nerd, so other people must not know anything about this.
And I was like, okay, something needs to happen. So I contacted OJ who now lives in, in Southern California. And like me and him, when he was doing comedy, he is, he is retired now from, from it. But when he was doing it, we would just talk endlessly about stuff and like interesting things we heard and just the in, in just analyzing it.
And so I was like, okay, you want to write this book? I'll do it to this point, you do it to this point. And he said yes. And we worked on it for a year. And the book has over a hundred pictures in it, so it almost feels like a yearbook of Bay Area comedy. And the reason why I think Bay Area comedy is so important is that it's been the place that people can develop their voice, and then kind of move on to the next stage.
So we had a lot of comics here from Boston in the 1980s, like Paula Poundstone and Bob-Bobcat and d-Dana Gold. And, like, San Francisco audiences, at least back then, were just like patient and just like wanted people to kind of experiment. And they were just great around that, which I think lent itself to the improvisational style that had developed here.
But before all of that, there was The Hungry Eye and The Purple Onion, and The Purple Onion is where Phyllis di-di-di-di-Diller ca-came out of, and her being especially important to with women comics. She developed her act in San Francisco. And right across the street at The Hungry Eye is where Mort Sahl developed a whole new way to do comedy.
So Bay Area comedy, especially in the North Beach area changed comedy forever and, and had that really, really big impact.
And the first stand-up comic was in the mid 18 hundreds. And I, and I, I know this because the work of Rich Schneider has put, a, has put, a-a-a spotlight on this. And the very first comic in the mid 18 hundreds came to San Francisco. And people would pay cover in gold because greenbacks were not totally, a thing yet. So the, so the history goes back to Mark Twain and then onto the pandemic. A-and of course, Robin Williams being kind of the pinnacle of the whole thing. And not only in his comedy, but also the heart, because he just gave so much to the world, but also so much to Bay, so much to, to, to the Bay and was just the most gracious and nicest guy that, that people still, uh, talk, talk about the things he did.
Passionistas: What can people who aren't in the disability community do to advocate for people who are?
Nina: I think everybody can kind of choose their own way in that. Because if you are a teacher or you are a speech therapist, I'm going to have very different expectations of that than somebody who works in more of a retail industry.
I think they can kind of choose what they want to do and how to be an ally. I think a lot of times people think you have to go march or you have to go do some kind of activist role. No, you could just be cool. Like you can just listen and not be overly empathetic.
And I think the main thing is to listen to disabled people and take their lead. They are in the lead. I think that word "empowerment" isn't always a great word because it kind of assumes that like you have the power, and your empowering the other person. That person already has that power. And it's you who should be fo-fo-following them. And also don't expect disabled people to teach you. I think that's the other thing, because sometimes people are like, "oh, so tell me about what it's like to have this." I was like, ugh! Unless you're paying me, no! Like go read my book and then we'll talk. So I think there's also putting people who have a disability into a position to hear their voices, but in a way that is respectful and not exploitive.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Nina G To learn more about her performances, speaking engagements, and get a copy of Bay Area Standup Comedy: A Humorous History visit ninagcomedian.com.
Please visit thepassionistasproject.com to learn more about our podcast and our subscription box, filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans to inspire you to follow your passions. Get a free mystery box worth $45 with a one-year subscription using the code SPRINGMYSTERY, and be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast, so you don't miss any of our upcoming, inspiring guests.
Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.
Tuesday Feb 08, 2022
Suzie Lewis Talks Transformation and Unlocking Potential
Tuesday Feb 08, 2022
Tuesday Feb 08, 2022
Suzie Lewis is the Managing Director at Transform for Value and host of the podcast "Let's Talk Transformation." She’s passionate about connecting people, their potential, collective intelligence and equipping organizations to get the best out of individuals and teams. Her quest is to constantly bridge the gap between digital and human and create more inclusive and collaborative cultures in organizations.
Learn more about Suzie here.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project here.
Full Transcript:
Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we talk with women who are following their passions to inspire you to do the same. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and today we're talking with Suzie Lewis, the Managing Director at Transform for Value and the host of the podcast, Let's Talk Transformation.
She's passionate about connecting people, their potential collective intelligence and equipping organizations to get the best out of individuals and teams. Her quest is to constantly bridge the gap between digital and human, and create more inclusive and collaborative cultures in organizations. So please welcome to the show, Suzie Lewis.
Suzie: Hi, I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you very much for inviting me.
Passionistas: Thanks so much, Suzie. Thanks for your time today. So what's the one thing you're most passionate about?
Suzie: People. I think people and connecting people, which is where the unlocking potential comes from. I worked in an organization for 20 years and I just saw so much wasted potential or untapped potential.
And I just thought, wow, we've got to do something about this. And I come from a family of very strong women. And I'm a big believer in sistership and we've always had each other's backs and I've always had that privilege, to have that space. And I thought if I don't create it for others, I'm missing a trick and I'm not putting myself at the service of creating a more inclusive and equitable world.
But I work mainly in organizations. I'm also a cellist in an orchestra. I have been playing the cello for a very long time, over 30 years, and I love the analogy between the orchestra, and what I'm trying to create in society. Essentially, each person comes with that individual potential, but it's essentially about the collective result and how each person contributes to that and how the diversity of profiles and the diversity of capabilities, how it brings to the force something completely different that is harmonious. Even if the way towards that harmony is not harmonious.
So I'm passionate about people. I love connecting people and I love playing in orchestra for the same reason. It's about listening intently and deliberately to what's being played, but also what isn't being played.
And I think in organizations and in human relationships, it's exactly the same. We listen to reply and not to understand. So my big quest is to democratize access to these dialogue skills and for people to have different conversations and more courageous conversations in the workplace. And I think women bring something innately to that table.
So I'm a big believer in the emotional layer of organizational culture and how we unwrap that and make it more normalized in the way people with.
Passionistas: So let's take a step back. Tell us about those amazing women from your early life and where you grew up, what your childhood was like.
Suzie: Basically today I'm based in France, but I grew up in UK and those fabulous women where my mom and my three sisters and my dad's great as well, but we had this safe space and it was predominantly discussion on equity, and how to create different spaces. My parents were both doctors and researchers, and also spent a lot of time counseling people. And we've always had these discussions on the table explicitly around healthy challenging, listening to others and making sure each voice is heard.
And my grandma, who is actually my role model for courage and confidence. She was just incredible. And she worked in a time, unfortunately for her, when women didn't have the empowerment we have today. My goodness, if she'd have had the empowerment we have, and she always used to say that to us. Oh, if I had your opportunities, I'd be doing something different, something bigger, something, but she was already big for me. That was the inspiration and it runs through the family.
And when I did my studies and I started studying cultural identity, as well as French and international economics, and I thought, okay, there's something in here about how the world works. And there's something in here, where I feel like make a difference with my innate skill set, which was, I just love discovering people, and I just really want to understand what their potential is and what that means for me, but also for where we work and how we can scale that if you like across what's happening. Particularly today in the digital age, where what keeps us relevant is our innately human qualities. So humility, creativity, imagination, which is where we come to my quest for different types of leadership in organizations, but also elsewhere.
And then I've always been parts of orchestras and charities and associations. And I'm currently part of an association to get more girls into the tech world and into stem. And it's a big, important piece for me, partly because of what women bring to the table, but just parity in. Equal opportunities and getting people to have real conversations because otherwise we just skirt around these issues and we just don't go there.
And I want people, particularly women to know that it's possible. How many times have people said to me, it's not possible. You can't do that. No, you don't have those skillsets. And I've always thought, well, don't tell me it's impossible. Cause it's not. That's always been my driver. And that came from my grandma and my parents and my sisters.
And my sisters are my three best friends. And we have this great space where we're still helping each other. We were all in different countries. And it taught me how to be humble. It taught me how to ask for help. And it taught me how to think about how I want to show up. And I think those questions are fundamental and they don't get asked enough.
And I just had so much fun. I think once you have that type of relationship, you can have fun doing really serious quests. I found my tribe, if you like. And I decided that building tribes was the way forward. I remember when I moved to France and I was working in France, and I thought, this system is really different. I'm finding it quite constrained, quite rigid. So what do I? I either sit and complain about it or I go back to UK or I think about how I can change it. And I thought, no, that's going to be my challenge. I'm going to look at how I can change organizational culture and create the space that we work in.
I worked in like a manufacturing production environment, very masculine, but I just thought I'm going to take that as an opportunity. So I'm not going to sit and think, oh, there's only 17% of women. And I thought, okay, how can I get like-minded people and make this an inclusive discussion and move forward with it?
I just found some of what I was seeing so unfair. And I thought, okay, if I stay and if I just don't do anything, I'm condoning it. And I refuse to do that. So I went and found as many people as possible and created small communities within the organization. And we may change. And clearly, you know, large organizations, you can't change everything, but it's very satisfying to watch people have light bulb moments and then suddenly their potential just explodes. And that's just brilliant. And I think, wow, I thought you might do this, or I thought you might do that. And they surprise themselves. And I think that's a very satisfying thing to see.
Passionistas: Now is this the industry you're talking about, is this the aeronautical industry?
Suzie: Yeah.
Passionistas: So tell us a little bit about working in that industry. What did you do?
Suzie: It's very interesting. I basically started as a lean expert on the supply chain and they trained me in that. And I do like operations, and I like doing, and I like seeing the impact of what I'm doing and there's no better way than lean on a production line. You see it, you see it coming in, coming off, you see what's happening.
But as we started to put lean in place, I thought, okay, how are we going to lead this? This is quite a different way of working. And we set up the leadership academy and we started looking at all the issues, challenges, but also the opportunities that were coming up from that. And I got more and more involved in the HR system where I was working and I thought, I don't really understand this, and I don't think it's unlocking potential.
So I went to join HR. So I went to join HR to understand what was going on and how I could make a difference and how they worked and what their mindset was. I think the best thing about where I worked was, yes, it's quite a traditional sort of industrial manufacturing environment, and the mindset goes with that.
But I never had any issue going and asking for what I wanted. Sometimes they said no. But more often than not, they said, if you're willing to try it and it's your responsibility, then off you go. And maybe I just had great bosses or people who were willing to take a chance on me, but, you know, I did have bosses who said no. And then my thought process was okay, so how else can I make a difference?
So I started as a lean expert and then I went into HR and then I got hooked. I got hooked on, why are we only talking about process? What's going on here? Why aren't we talking about the emotional layer? So I stayed in HR for 10 years.
I thought if I want to change, what's going on here, I need to understand the operation. So I went into HR operations and I did HR business partnering, and I ran the recruitment services and we set up the shared services for recruitment. And during that time I looked at the recruitment process and the talent we were bringing in and thought this is not very diverse.
So I said, can we do an experiment on diversifying recruitment? So that got me thinking about how I could think outside the box and how I could get the organization to think outside the box. And then I went into take on a position as head of diversity and inclusion because I thought, okay, this is a big subject. And for me, it is the subject for competitive advantage.
And it's not just HR tick box exercise, and it's not just how many women we've got or how many other minority groups we've got. This is about people. And this is about creating an environment where people can thrive as opposed to strive. And because the culture was quite command and control in terms of leadership, there were quite a lot of people's suffering and I could see that.
And they couldn't see a way out. And I felt that it was HR's job, but also every leader's job to look into their teams and have that discussion, which of course is quite a big ask because it's a difficult discussion to have. So I basically took diversity inclusions that I want to put it up with strategic objectives, culture, change, business objectives, leadership.
And then we moved into a time when we wanted to build an internal leadership university. And they asked me if I would like to do that. And I was just thrilled with that project. It was a fab project, but there was four of us running it, so that was a collective management thing.
And the more I got into these activities, I thought 1) I have a massive volume proposition here. 2) I'm seeing the impact of people co-creating together and seeing what that can do to organizational culture wellbeing, but also productivity. And 3) organizations are missing a trick if they don't want to look beyond what they do today.
So we did that and we basically looked at the whole thing, organizational design, but also how to create a platform for human transformation. What does it mean? How do people learn. How do we interact with the business? How do you support people on the job day in, day out? And how do you equip organizations with a coaching culture? A culture of more lifelong learning, as opposed to I sit in a classroom for two days. And then, yeah, I do remember something they told me about emotional intelligence and how to communicate.
Which is why of course change stalls because they don't practition it. They don't practition what I call the human systems of an organization, which is, you know, the human element. And now we're in the digital age where everything's about ecosystems. I just felt really strongly that if we don't equip people to understand the human systems, it's just going to get worse because we can collaborate with online tools and we can have virtual meetings, but the human connection is the way we're wired.
So we built the Leadership University and that was one of my favorite favorite projects ever. And we built communities of practice and we went from 900 members to 12,000 and I was just like, wow, what can we do here? This is so cool! The best thing was the other people that thought it was so cool, which meant that we got momentum in the organization. Some people didn't believe in it, but, you know, fair enough. That's humans, isn't it. You don't always get a hundred percent unanimity.
But it was great. And I got massively challenged on my ideas and we created new ideas. I just felt that we unlocked so much potential in the groups we were in that we took it to the talent management and said, you know, what do we do with this?
And then digital transformation came along and we got more and more tools and more and more speed of change. And then I decided that I was a bit bored of the big machine and it was too rigid and there were reasons why I couldn't do things that were outside of reasons for my competence, it was either political or it wasn't the right time or budgetary.
And so I decided that I would step out of the organization and do exactly the same thing on my own, because I also wanted to see other organizations, other industries. I wanted to work with charities. I wanted to work with start up. I wanted to work with SMEs. So that's what I did.
It's quite a bold move actually, now that I think about it. I probably didn't think about it enough, which is why I just did it. But yeah. So I stepped out with the organization and I set up my own business. And I thought, what do I call it? Transformation was clear. Value was clear. I thought, okay, well, don't overcomplicate this. I'll just call myself Tranform for Value because that's basically what I want to do.
And behind that, it's about unlocking potential. So it's about transforming with a deliberate intention to create human value..
Passionistas: While you were getting people to think more about diversity and inclusion, and while you were creating this university, what was the impact that you saw on the company and through those initiatives that you helped create?
Suzie: I think the first impact is always engagement. You have engagement scores and things like that. But you also have people coming to you when you think that's why I do what I do. When people come with, yeah, I wanted to leave that job, but now I'm staying. Or I never thought that was possible, and I never thought I could lead that.
And I saw that scale. I saw people getting excited. I saw top management asking more about it. I saw them wanting to understand it. I saw it as being able to open doors at levels where I didn't think we would be able to. And I just think that just makes it a more attractive place to work. And you can see people honing in on that.
You suddenly find out or people contact you, "I hear you're doing this, I've seen you're doing this, I've seen the community does this." And you're thinking, wow, okay, I don't really know who you are. Which is brilliant because that's what we're aiming at is to federate and make powerful communities.
So I saw a lot of communities being built. I also saw lots of room to maneuver, to bring in new ideas, whether that be in the leadership space or in the cultural space. An open box for experimentation, if you like. I think the hardest part about experimentation is when you go from proof of concept to industrialized idea, because then it becomes part of the organization. That's almost a different discussion.
So I saw the difference in that. I saw the difference in the way I lead, and I saw the difference in the way the teams were feeling and innovating and defending the project or taking the project forward.
When I was in the operational area, we did a lot of change based on lean on the operations. And I remember, after 18 months, we did a retrospective on what's changed. And the biggest change they'd seen was engagement and happiness at the workplace. At the time we didn't have metrics, we had mood boards and things like that where we didn't have sort of people analytics, but it was incredibly satisfying that that was a collective observation, was that even though this didn't work in that didn't work, we actually wants to come to work everyday. Which I just think is just so satisfying.
And it was interesting. I had somebody contact me a couple of months ago who worked for me 10 years ago. And just saying, "I still remember that day when the team did that, and I'm now doing it with my team. And it still really works." So that for me is the type of legacy that I want to leave, and I want us to leave as a collective. Because I think, you know, particularly platforms like Passionistas and things like that, they are so inspiring and you can unlock so much potential without even knowing it.
That's why I'm a big believer in collective intelligence. And I think, these words have become buzzwords now, haven't they? Like collective intelligence and lean and culture change and employee experience. But experience is so important because it's the human experience. And I think we need to de-mystify it, and we need to operationalize it.
And that's partly what my podcast is about. My podcast is around breaking things down into actionable chunks of learning so that people can go and do something with it and try out what works for them, and basically build the confidence to actually challenge the status quo in the organization. And I think emotional intelligence is becoming more and more and more key in the way we work. And I feel that women don't voice that enough, that they innately bring something to that table.
I also like to work with groups of women to just turn the volume up on that voice. I think every time I've done that, we're all in agreement. It's just not formalized. The volume isn't loud enough on what women can bring to the table.
And it has been ever thus for me. But it's getting stronger and it's getting louder. And this was a conversation I had with my mum. When I was 10 or 11. And we've been discussing it ever since. So yeah. I just think I can add something to that debate. I can make a difference and however, small, it may be in society, if I can make it bigger within what I'm doing, then I'm hoping it will just add into the mix.
That's why I don't think it's impossible is the statement I would accept. Ever.
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington, and you're listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Suzie Lewis. To learn more about her mission to help organizations and leaders understand human systems so that they can create sustainable change and bring about cultural transformation, visit transformforvalue.com.
If you're enjoying this interview and would like to help us continue creating inspiring content, please consider becoming a patron by visiting thepassionistasproject.com/podcast and clicking on the patron button. Even $1 a month can help us continue our mission of inspiring women to follow their passions. Now here's more of our interview with Suzie.
So with Transform for Value, what types of clients do you work with and why are they seeking you out?
Suzie: So I worked with large organizations. I also work with governmental institutions. I work with charities and I work with startups. Which is great because I wanted a massive mix of clients.
They seek me out because they've understood that something needs to change in their organizational culture. It's either through additional transformation lense. So we need to be more agile. Our process needs to be more agile. We need to understand innovation creativity more.
Or it's from a leadership perspective. We know that we need to change our leadership models because this one is no longer working. So can you help us 1) understand what that means and 2) co-create it so that we can create sustainable change.
Or they come to me more specifically for coaching. So how can I either show up as a leader differently?
Or I do quite a lot of systemic coaching in groups around what I call human system practitionering. So, you know, how do I create that environment and how can I make it sustainable in terms of behavioral change in my team or in my organization.
Passionistas: Is there one success story from your work in this field that really kind of stands out to you as one you're particularly moved by or proud of?
Suzie: So, yes is the answer to that. I think there's one success story from inside the organization. Which is the one I spoke about when we decided that we would federate all the women's networks, which brought it to 900 people, and then we decided to make it inclusive. And then we decided we call it Balance for Business to link it to the business, the bottom line.
And that went from 900 people to 12,000 in five or six years. And it took on a whole different perception in the organization, but also a whole different impact in terms of what subjects they were dealing with and how they could create a feeling of belonging across sites and countries. So that was a vision for me.
And I saw it unfold, which was fab. That was great. And the leadership university was also part of that for me. It was sort of contributing and creating a platform underneath to make it more systemic.
And very recently I've been doing some consulting on an inclusion strategy and we've done co-creation from a to zed. And we've gone from discussing strategy and looking at visioning to training all managers in self limiting beliefs, basic coaching skills and psychological safety. And we've just done the whole spectrum. And it's something I've always wanted to put in place outside of the organization where I've worked.
And they gave me that opportunity. And it's a fab project. And every time I think about it, fondly, I just think. Wow. How many lives are still being impacted by the fact that we're equipping people for different conversations. We're equipping them to thrive, you know, as opposed to survive. And so many people do just survive in organizations.
I'm proud of that because it was the right thing to do. And I'm proud of that because I've got the feedback on the impact it's having. And I'm proud of that because it's creating a different culture, or building on a culture that wasn't quite as explicit as that, on those things in that organization.
And I'm interested in a year from now to go back to it and see where they're at.
Passionistas: So what are some of the biggest challenges for leaders in the 21st century workplace?
Suzie: So my short answer to that would be themselves. Leadership comes from within, doesn't it? And I think particularly now, leaders are having to really understand what they're about in order to be able to deal with the circumstances and lead the uncertainty that's around them. And going inside is quite a difficult conversation with oneself, isn't it? And it's not necessarily something that everybody is used to.
So I think there's that for individual leaders. I think then the codes of leadership in an organization are changing very quickly. Where the paradigm is, it shifts. So, you know, the whole "I'll give you the information you need and information is power" type of paradigm has gone with social media and collaborative platforms. And they're now having to move from a sort of managerial, "I'll tell you what to do to" to more of a coaching stance of, "Either let me empower you to take decisions in a more decentralized way, because that's the way we're going to organize our organization," or "I am here to develop you based on your competencies and your potential." And that often means developing you out of my team, but that's okay.
So we're moving away from paradigm of talent is mine because it's in my team. Which I think is fabulous because that's what we need to do. But I think it's a quite hard conversation to break those paradigms also on a strong is a leader that doesn't show vulnerability and that knows everything. So I'm being very black and white now, but these are the polarities we're working within. And I think it is hard to turn around and say, "I don't know. What do you think?" Or "I'm not quite sure how to navigate this."
I think it's the unwritten codes of organizational cultures around their definition of strong leadership, their attitude to failure and risk, and also their attitude to this discussion around the emotional layer.
So challenge doesn't have to be aggressive. It can be healthy and inverted comments. And I just think we're moving from compare and compete to care and collaborate and that care and collaborate means that you have to have an understanding of yourself, and empathy with the understanding of others, and creating an environment where people feel safe enough in their interpersonal relationships to bring things to the table.
So I think from a leadership perspective, that's a shift everybody is working on and undergoing, but it's not the way cultures are. So I feel like it's not the way we do things around here. So they're constantly hitting the cultural codes and that's quite a tiring place if you're one of the only ones doing it.
So I think it's a wider discussion for particularly top leadership, because what do people do when they want to know what's going to be rewarded and how things work? They look at the top. I think it's a big piece for top leadership, and that's why we need more women in the higher levels of management, as well as the board level, because they bring that discussion. They open that dialogue because they have very different ways of leading. And not just women, but people with more female leadership traits or with a more developed emotional intelligence.
And I just think we're back on the inhibitors of learning, aren't we? Ego and fear. And everyone always says to me, there's a lot of fear in organizations. And there is, but there is a lot of courage as well. There's a lot of curiosity and there's a lot of excitement. But you have to go and find it. And I think that's the most exciting thing is going and finding it, in an organization or anywhere else.
But I think the leadership challenge is that they have to deliver in a world that is uncertain, but they're not like comfortable in, and they're not quite sure how to go about it. It's a big shift, I think. The circular models and the sort of what data brings with it in terms of decision-making is a big conversation, both for systems and organizations. But also as individual leaders, I get a lot of individual leaders asking me the question, you know, I'm not quite sure what to do with the fact that that I don't know.
So that's new conversations for quite a lot of people.
Passionistas: And do you find that more and more companies or individuals are seeking to make these changes?
Suzie: So, yes, it's the answer to that, but I think there are two categories. The companies that are seeking because they actively and deliberately want to create developmental organizations because that's what they believe in and that's what they want to do. And other companies, because they've been told that that's what they need to do to remain competitive. Either way they need to do it. It's a very different discussion.
Passionistas: So how can people work with you at Transform for Value? How do they find you and what can they expect when they work with you?
Suzie: They can find me on LinkedIn. They can find me through my website, transformforvalue.com. They can find me on Twitter.
They can expect to first discussion because my approach to transformation is holistic. It has to have that systemic view to it, even if it's just an inverted commerce, a two-day workshop, the discussion will always start with what's the strategy, what are the objectives and where does it fit in?
And I do that on purpose because I'm a big believer in systems thinking. It comes with the sort of collective intelligence thing. And I do think that particularly in today's world, systems thinking and sense making is key for leadership to come back to your earlier question. So I will always have that discussion.
And they'll also get honesty. If I don't think I can help them, I'm going to tell them because you know, I do what I do to make a difference. If I don't think I can make a difference, then I will tell them, I don't think I'm the one for them, but I will refer them to people I know. But that's important for me.
So it's about a holistic discussion. It's about a fit between me and them. If I can't help them, I'll tell them. And I will always be honest about what I think they need, even if it's not what they came to me for. So I think that's important for me that we work within those boundaries. And then hopefully they'll have fun when we do stuff together.
Passionistas: Shifting gears a little bit. Tell us about the cello and when you first started to play and why you fell in love with it and why you're in the orchestra?
Suzie: Yeah, the cello. I think I was 10. And they came around the schools with all these instruments and they said it was in discovery day. And I heard the person play the cello. And I heard the sound of the cello and I was just like, I want to play that. I want to do that. I was a little bit bewitched by the sound of it. And I thought, wow, I didn't realize how difficult it would be to recreate that sound. But I just fell in love with it. And I thought, this is for me, I really love this instrument.
So I asked my parents if I could play. And they said, yeah, we'll hire one thought. And I said okay. And my granddad was a pianist. So we had music in the household and all my sisters played instruments as well. And it was hard. I found it quite hard to learn to play, and it was quite a lot of discipline. And I was like, do I really want to do this? And then I started thinking, okay, well, I'll join an orchestra because that will be really cool to play with other people.
So I joined an orchestra when I was about 12, a youth orchestra. And I just, that was it then. Because I think I'd taken the pressure off myself to perform and to get it right. And it was just like, wow, I'm part of something bigger. And I think being part of something bigger than yourself is for me very inspiring, hence what I do and all the communities that we create.
So that's what I did. And I just learned so much about people and I had so much fun just being part of a bigger collective and playing and watching myself progress. And then I was quite willing to do my scales and do the practice. And we went on tour with the orchestras and my sister was in the same orchestra and yeah, it was a big collective thing.
And then, when I was 16, I bought my own cello. Which was like this big thing because I was like, I bought my own cello. And I bought it in a sort of market where we were that was selling all the instruments. And a guy I knew helped me tune it and put it together. And I was just like, wow, I've bought an instrument.
So that was a big thing for me. And then it's just stayed with me ever since. And when I went to university, I found an orchestra and when I came to Toulouse, I found an orchestra and I still play in that orchestra. And I've always played that. And I love, I just love cello music. I think it just communicates an emotional sort of bewitchment that I don't feel when I play. I really like playing it and it sort of takes me elsewhere. It's a little bit like mindfulness for me. I just sort of step out of what I'm doing during the day.
And then when my grandma passed away, I bought a more expensive with the inheritance. So that was symbolic for me because she accompanied me in my cello exam. She came to play the piano with me and we did them together. So that was very cool. And yeah, that's just my instrument. I just feel something passionate when I hear the cello.
Passionistas: So we also love the sister connection. Obviously we're sisters and we have two other sisters and we are also each other's best friends. What do your sisters do? And how often do you get to see them since you all live in different countries?
Suzie: Let's take COVID out with this. Before that we saw each other about four or five times a year. But we would always take the time to have one weekend for just the four of us, dedicated to us. To just having fun and being together and that sistership thing. So that's how much we see each other.
One is a lawyer, one is a translator and one is a communications director. And we're just sort of all over the world. But we're always connected. You know, oh, I must ring her. And it just so happens that she's okay or she's not okay. But they're my go to place for constructive and sisterly feedback that will help move me on whether it's what I want to hear or not.
They're sort of my muses, if you like. It's funny because you know, when we all started sort of moving away and getting other groups of friends, I never once asked myself, "I wonder if that space will remain." You know, it just wasn't. And we've had this discussion between all four of us and it wasn't on anybody's radar.
It was just like, oh, how are we going to make space for that? Not will it change. So I feel very, very, very privileged all the time, but just so grateful for that because it's a no matter what unconditional safe space. And that's what really inspires me as well to create that for other people, because it's so powerful.
Passionistas: People don't understand if they haven't experienced it, but to know from birth that you've got people that have your back, no matter what, is really the greatest gift anybody could receive.
Suzie: Yeah. It's a fab feeling. It's a get up and feel good feeling. And I just think you can recreate that in teams. You can recreate that in organizational culture. And it's such a shame not to, because it's so inspiring for everybody. And they don't have to be inspired by the same thing or motivated by the same thing, but they all want to work together. And clearly if you're in an organization you will have a collective purpose or vision depending on what the organization does.
And I just think it's one of those things. I spend a lot of time doing pro bono stuff on this topic, just because it's so important. I mentor everyone, but predominantly women on building their own business. We go into colleges before they've made their choices. And it's not just about getting women into areas where they aren't.
It's also about believing yourself. Build your confidence. Don't let anyone tell you it's impossible. Surround yourself with people who can help you or who can have that space with you, because I don't think I would be the same person I am today. If I hadn't of had that space.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Suzie Lewis. To learn more about her mission to help organizations and leaders understand human systems so that they can create sustainable change and bring about cultural transformation, visit transformforvalue.com.
Please visit thepassionistasproject.com to learn more about our podcast and our subscription box filled with products made by women owned businesses and female artisans, to inspire you to follow your passions. Get one for your Valentine and save 15% on your purchase with the code BEMINE2022. And be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming, inspiring guests. Until next time, stay well and stay passionate.