Episodes
Tuesday Sep 20, 2022
Lindsay Gordon on Her New Book ”Right for You”
Tuesday Sep 20, 2022
Tuesday Sep 20, 2022
Lindsay Gordon is an award-winning career coach, author and speaker on a mission to help people stop doing what they think is "right" in their career and start doing what's right for them. Through her work, she assists leaders in making clear and confident decisions so they can move forward in their careers (and lives) with purpose. Lindsay loves baking complicated pastries, barbershop singing, and applying her engineering brain to helping people be DECIDED.
Learn More about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington founders of The Passionistas Project. And today we're talking with fabulous Lindsay Gordon. Lindsay's an award winning career coach, author, and speaker on a mission to help people stop doing what they think is right in their career and start doing what's right for them. Through her work, she assists leaders in making clear and confident decisions so they can move forward in their careers and lives with purpose.
Lindsay loves baking complicated pastries, barbershop singing, and applying her engineering brain to helping people be decided. So please welcome Lindsay.
Lindsay: Thank you for having me. It is always a pleasure to chat with you too. So I'm just happy to be here.
Passionistas: We feel the same way about you? I remember the baking, but I, I vaguely remember the barbershop singing. Was that something you started doing in college?
Lindsay: I, it was actually way later than that. So I did musical theater growing up through high school. I mostly chose to do dance in college, but I think it was about. Gosh. I don't know if pandemic time, I feel like it was maybe five or six years ago that I was like, I wanna get back into singing. And I discovered barbershop singing and was like, where have you been? My vocal?
Passionistas: That's so cool. And what vocal range?
Lindsay: I am a baritone. So excellent. It, it seems very fitting based on my engineering background. Yeah. Cause I feel like all the baritone are like the accountants, the lawyers, the engineers, because it's such a, it's like the leftover note in the chord. That just sounds so bad if you sing it by itself.
Passionistas: That is awesome. And is your quartet all women or is it men and women?
Lindsay: It was all women. Yeah. So that was cool.
Passionistas: That's cool. And, um, and baking is something you, you would kind of consider doing it professionally and then realize, I don't think so. Right. And that's part of your whole journey that I found fascinating. Can you talk about?
Lindsay: So the title of the book is basically everything I do in my work "Right for You". So this launched last night, I still can't believe that I'm being introduced as an author, but, you know, we'll let it sink in and. Yeah. I think everything I do in my work is to help people make choices that actually feel good to them.
And oftentimes one of those questions is, do I want to do this thing as a job? Or do I want to do this thing as a hobby? And for me, I love. Baking. And I love complicated baking. I take professional baking classes for fun, but I kind of took myself through my own framework in this book. um, how would this engage the things that are most important to me. And I found that if I were doing it as a full-time thing, it actually, wasn't going to be the things that I really need to thrive in a job. So I got to say, this is my hobby and I love it. And I actually don't need to do it at this moment in my life as a career.
Passionistas: That's so cool. And we say that to people all the time, you know, it sounds so easy to say to people like, follow your passions? Right. Um, but we're like, yeah, but you don't have to do that for a job. Mm-hmm it could just mean like, have a great hobby that you like to do on the weekends or. You know, and your passions can change.
Lindsay: Yes.
Passionistas: You all the time. You don't have to decide what you wanna do when you're 18 and do that for the rest of your life.
Lindsay: Boring. Would that be…
Passionistas: no way? No way. So the people who don't know you, and, and haven't heard our episode of the podcast with you talk a little bit. Your original career and, and your professional journey that led you to become a career coach?
Lindsay: Yeah, I am on my third career so far, and I like to say that I have fallen into all of them as we, as we do with career transitions. Right. No plan over here. But I started my working life as an engineer. And that's actually why I call myself a career coach for analytically minded people, because this engineering background is quite unusual, did engineering for a little bit.
I was working in recycled water in Australia. Then I completely fell into technical support at Google and discovered that I am a human who love. Customer service. I love it. I love it. I love it. So that is a weird, delightful fact about me. and then as I was doing technical support, I. Was doing onboarding and training and all of our new hires were so stressed about their career.
And they were like, how do I talk to my manager? And what if I get stuck on this support team for forever? So I accidentally was having all these conversations about career. And, you know, people said you would be a coach. I didn't know what that meant. So I went and experimented and, and ended up doing a year and a half long program.
And then people started popping up and saying, are you taking clients? We have people to refer to you. So I ran the business on the side for a little bit, took it full time in 2016. And here we are six years later.
Passionistas: Amazing. So talk about your approach to working with your clients now.
Lindsay: Yeah. That's so much fun. I get to bring my engineering brain to a career. And what we do is we create a tailored framework of what matters to you in a couple different areas. So that you basically have a cheat sheet to say, okay, these are the things that are important to me. How does that relate to any opportunities that come my direction?
So the framework is in the book and it has four pieces. So first we look at values. What is important to you in life? And how does career fit into that? Next, we look at your fulfillment in different areas of your career. So things like results, relationships, career development, creative self-expression so that we can start to articulate what are the actual areas that I need for fulfillment.
Then we move into strengths and what I find with my clients, um, the, the strengths chapter starts with a client who said, Why did it take me until my forties to know what my strengths were and I think often, you know, people have that experience of nobody really teaches us how to discover that. We'll get you clear on strengths, the contribution you wanna make.
And then the fourth part of the framework is about environment. So what are the working conditions that you need in order to thrive? And then you've got this framework of, okay, this is me and who I am and what I need out of a career. And I'm gonna say yeses in this direction.
Passionistas: That's so cool. And one of the things I love about you. Well, I think you said like 50% of the people that you work with actually stay yeah. In their current job. You're not like encouraging everybody to just kind of like go up and try something new. You're helping them decide whether they are actually in the right place for them, which I think is really interesting.
Lindsay: Yeah. It, it has been such a fascinating finding over the six years because I mean, I like to honor. People's risk averseness because I think sometimes we say, you know, I'm risk averse with this like negative connotation because we get these messages of like, oh, well you should be taking these big leaps and just quit and do your passion.
But for most people that is not a. Thing that they really wanna be doing. It disrupts your stability. You know, if you are providing for a family or care taking for parents or whatever it is, quitting is not going to be the right thing for you necessarily. So that's always been kind of the way that I work with people, but I, yeah, I like to joke that I'm running a employee retention program because so many people come to me convinced that they need to quit.
What I find is that when you don't know what you're looking for and what's right for you, quitting is really the only option that you can see. So I help people get clear about what is actually right for them. Then they get to step back and say, oh, okay. I, I might actually choose this job. Even if it's not perfect, even if I don't choose it for the long term, but I know why it is right for me in this moment.
And yeah, as you said, over 50% of my clients do not end up quitting. So I feel like people have more chance of quitting if they don't work with me.
Passionistas: I also think people have this. Fantasy that the next thing is gonna be perfect and devoid of any issues. It's like every job has its pluses and minuses. Yeah. And. Is what you're going. Like, why are you going to where you're going and what you gonna find there. Yeah. So I think it's really great that you have them look at. Yeah. And it's sort of re reframing how you think about your current situation. Right?
Lindsay: Right cause it's always trade-offs. Right. And so if you can articulate, these are the things that are in alignment or out of alignment here and I either choose that or I don't choose that. And if I'm choosing to make a move, these are the trade-offs. I will be accepting over here. I am choosing it for these reasons. And I know that these reasons might not be the perfect alignment. So I think there's just so much calmness when we know why we are making the choice we are making.
Passionistas: Yeah. Agree. Yeah. So what's the first step somebody should take. If they're thinking about a career change?
Lindsay: Yeah, the first step I always love to have people start with is an unusual one. So it is to identify all of the pressure that you feel about your career, because if we don't identify it, then it is just long for the ride and it might even be motivating.
Your desire to make a change. So you might have family telling you that you need to do a particular thing. You may feel a lot of pressures from society of what work should mean to you or, um, where your passion and purpose should come from. And so if we can get really clear about that, sometimes even from that moment, people are like, wow, somebody else wants something different for me.
But actually for me, this might be right. I remember a phone call I had with somebody many years ago, who had no intention of working with me. He was actually very satisfied in his job, but he did a phone call with me to get people in his life, off his back, because they were telling him like, you should have a job.
That's more, this, that, and the other. And you need to go talk to a career coach to, to figure out how to make that change. And he was just like, yep. I'm actually quite happy. I know why I'm choosing it for me. Um, so thanks for this conversation, but I'm good. So I, I think really looking at why are you making that choice? Is it a true desire from you? If so, awesome. But if it's coming from somebody else, let's like set that aside so that you can be really happy where you are .
Passionistas: Is there a success story from people you've worked with that stands out to you as one of your?
Lindsay: I think the one that stands out to me at the moment is the courage it takes to not do the traditional path. So I worked with a woman who is a VP of finance at a large multinational company. And she came to me saying, You know, for a VP of finance, the next logical step is CFO, but I actually don't think I want CFO and I'm getting all this feedback and pressure and noise that well.
You should want CFO and how do we get you to CFO? And you're on the CFO track. And so throughout working together, she was able to really solidify that insight that she had in the beginning, that she was pretty sure was true, but felt a little shaky. So she really solidified that. And just seeing the courage of somebody say, you know what, I'm not.
Choose the thing that everybody thinks is the logical next step for me, she ended up staying at the company and moving to a different part of the organization and doing something she loves now. But that takes a lot of courage. And I have story after story, after story, after story, after story of that kind of courage in the book.
And, you know, really that's, what I wanted to do is share the stories of what does it really look like when people choose to do what's right for them. Yeah.
Passionistas: So tell us about writing the book. Tell us about the process, why you started it, how it went
Lindsay: Oh my gosh. This has been a wild process. And thank you for that question. I'm so excited to share, cuz I, I want more people to know that it is possible to write a book. And you can, you know, I chose to self-publish and that's been a fun adventure, but I think the more voices that we get to hear from the better. So for me, I chose to work with a program called the inspirational book writers, and they're actually based out of Australia and challenge.
This is not gonna work for everybody. I, I like to, you know, not glamorize anything about running a business or writing a book. Their challenge is to write your book in a week. And that felt really fun for me because. I had a business coach say, I think, I think you need to write your book this year. I think it's time for that.
And I said, really, are you sure? Like already, no, no. That's far in the future. So I had to be challenged and then sit with it. But once I was on board, it's really fun for me to set an ambitious challenge and what my business coach has said was. Listen, you've been writing this book in your head for the last six years, right?
Like I know you, you have your framework, you say similar things to clients. You've been writing blog posts for six years. And so I really got the courage to say like, okay, if, if I believe that it's all in here and it's also been written down and at some other places, how long is it gonna take me to put it all together?
And so I ended up doing that process in a week. And then I decided that I wanted to do the, the fast track publishing in three months. And so I think my coach challenged me on February 22nd of this year to write a book and book is now in my hands in physical copy as of yesterday, September 5th. So that's incredible.
Passionistas: That's amazing. My new hero and. And you did the, the doodles, right?
Lindsay: I did. Can you show some of the doodle? I love the doodles. So here's, here's the cover doodle and I'll show you one of my favorite ones and I don't consider myself an artist,
Passionistas: But, but they're so cute. They totally express. Like they're so perfect. Blown the way back. Yeah.
Lindsay: I, you know, I want the, the joy and the levity and the not taking myself too seriously. And the, we are not about perfection around here. Here's one of my favorites. Um, there's a lot of them are also like really sad and, you know, having a challenging time. So some of them make me feel a little bit sad. This is one of the guys, like so much pressure. So yes.
Passionistas: But I love that cuz it is such a, like, It feels at the end of the world sometimes mm-hmm it does when you're making that kind of decision. It it's just so stressful. Mm-hmm the fact that you can add levity to it
Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. It can be super lonely, super isolating, you know, why is this only happening to me? And so I like to balance, you know, really just honoring how. Much it sucks, honestly, to be unhappy in your job. I have been there. And so I, I want to give a lot of love and support for that. And I want people to know that we actually do get to have fun in this process and that we get to add levity and we get to add grace. And then at some point, people are, you know, fired up about. Now that I know my strengths and I have this framework, you know, I gotta get out there and be the contribution that I wanna be in my job or in my life. So I, I feel like the doodles kind of ease the way to the fun .
Passionistas: Oh, great. Did, did you find that during COVID things got heightened with people wanting to make a shift and how did that impact?
Lindsay: Yeah, it's been interesting. Cause I think there's been ebbs and flows that I, you know, couldn't have seen coming in the very beginning. I think there was a very clarifying moment of we only have one life and I need to think about, is this the contribution that I want to be is this job where I want to spend. However many hours of my life I am spending. And so there was just a very clear, like, I want to know more about my own contribution and where I wanna be.
So that was one of the phases. We've also gone through phases where, you know, it's been really rough and people are saying, you know what? I'm just going to stick it out where I am, do the best that I can take care of the family and manage my mental health. And a change is not right for me at the moment.
And then more recently I've had many leaders come to me saying I'm being asked to go back into the workplace X days a week, and that might not actually be right for me. Anymore. Um, I've found a lot of flexibility. I'm able to pick up my kids. Um, it really supports my health. So I think that's kind of the phase that we're in, of going back to the office really is not the right thing for some people and for others. They're excited about that. So that's been an interesting thing that I've seen.
Passionistas: Yeah. That's amazing. It's been such a crazy time for all of us.
Lindsay: Oh my goodness. Yeah. Oh my goodness.
Passionistas: But there's the word? Joy. Which is your watchful. Yeah. So why tell us about that.
Lindsay: Joy? Joy's just so important to me. I feel like it's one of my values. The other word that that occurs to me is delight. And I think that actually is what ties in the customer service. You know, I think of, of companies like Ritz, Carlton, and Zappos who are trying to really create delight in their. People and in the world and in their, in the human interactions and something about that.
I think also because it's such a hard time and career, you know, I do wanna bring the delight, the joy, and part of that, that was really edgy for me. So I like to say, if you think I just wrote this book for everyone else, you'd be wrong because I also get really challenged by. How I feel I am supposed to be as a business owner.
And especially because I work with senior leaders, I'm like, do I need to be more professional? And you know, do I, I almost didn't have a doodle on the cover until my community was like, where's, where's the doodle love you. But like, we need the fun. That is part of who you are. And so for my launch party, that was last night, I basically dialed up the joy and delight, like in the realm of business as far up as I could go.
Um, the, the one liner is that I, I, I modeled the launch party after like a PBS inspired pledge drive and we had people calling in to pledge to do what was right for them in their career. and I would change ball gowns every time we got 50 pledges, because I love dress up. I own a lot of ball gowns. That's like one of the things that's really fun for me.
And so I got to experience, you know, bringing the. Full delight of me into the business realm, which actually felt very vulnerable and needed a lot of courage. And, you know, had a, had some tears in the process, even though I know I wanted to do it, it was actually quite challenging for me. So I, I just love delight.
Passionistas: So how many gowns did you get to put on last night?
Lindsay: We got to 13.
Passionistas: Oh God. you have that many gowns?
Lindsay: I might have more than that, so.
Passionistas: Well, if we do the Emmys again, next year, we know where to go.
Lindsay: Oh my gosh. Yes.
Passionistas: But what I need to know more about this. Why do you have so many. Why do we not have so many question?
Lindsay: I think I was telling my friend the other day, for some reason. You know how sometimes you see an outfit and you're, and you say, when would I ever have the chance to wear this? And then you don't buy it. Mm-hmm, there's something that is missing in like the synapses of my brain with that message. So I, and most of my dresses are, you know, From second hand stores from thrift stores, um, from Ross dress for less.
Like, I just, I love them. And whenever I see a dress to me, it's just like, oh my gosh, like this wants to be on a stage somewhere. This wants to be in a photo shoot. Like of course I would. Own this dress and then I will find the opportunity to wear them. So I think it's, it, it kind of goes back to my musical theater background.
I love dressing up. I love photo shoots. There's something so playful about being a character. And I like to call myself an introverted ham because I do. I do feel I'm introverted. I need a lot of alone time for recharging but put me on a stage and I am a ham. So I think the dresses really support the hamminess.
Passionistas: Well costumes. I love it. I love that. And you're always ready for Halloween worst case. Yeah, go was a bachelor.
Lindsay: And if anyone, yeah. If anyone needs like a, a professional bridesmaid or like a black tie wedding attendee, I am ready at any moment.
Passionistas: the perfect extra. That's great. That is awesome. That's so awesome. Um, you know, one of the things that you talk about is that managers and business owners should be helping the employee kind of find their place in the organization. Right. So talk about that. The people who are listening, who are on the other side of it and they have employees and they wanna help them settle in or be in the right spot.
Lindsay: Yeah. I think managers are sometimes really trying to help people get into the right spot. So I want to acknowledge the managers that are really like, Hey, I can tell that you're not quite in the right spot or you're not satisfied. How can we help? Where can we put you? What do you want? And from my experience, what I see on the employee side is that people actually get very. Embarrassed and ashamed that they don't know the answer to that question.
And so it goes into the spiral of like, oh my gosh, my manager's even trying to support me. I don't know where I wanna be. Why can't I answer this question? So basically my hope is that this is a resource that a manager can say, look, I definitely wanna get you into the right place and make sure you're feeling fulfilled.
Here's the framework. Read this book, and then we can have the best conversation about the contribution that you want to make, and what's gonna enable you to thrive so that everybody wins. So I really, the, the hope for this book is that I am enabling conversations between employees and employers to have actual conversations about.
Where people fit in. And also if you discover it is not the right fit for somebody to be in your company, that's actually lose, lose for everyone. So can we have more clear and open conversations about. I realize that this might not be the right spot for me. Let's, you know, get me to the next spot. And then the, the company gets to put a person in who's really excited to be there.
So I think it's pretty edgy to be having those conversations, but I really want to connect with companies who believe that it is in their best interest and they actually want to support their employees to be in the right place for them.
Passionistas: Excellent. That's amazing. So where can people get the book?
Lindsay: Yes. So it is on Amazon and there is ebook. There is paperback. There is hard cover. If that is for you, you can go for, to write for you book. Dot com and that will take you directly to the Amazon link. And if you are seeing this now, you might actually be able to still sneak in and get the ebook for 99 cents. It is a launch price sale, and, um, Amazon is gonna be updating that soon. So if it hasn't updated, we don't know how long it takes. So jump in and get a copy. Get copies for your friends, anyone who is like really struggling in their career, anyone who is complaining to you, um, if you wanna have different conversations at the Thanksgiving table about what actually is right for you rather than, you know yep. I'm still unhappy in my job.
Passionistas: Um, and then make great holiday gifts. Not too early holiday gifts. Yes.
Lindsay: Yes. Um, and then if you wanna learn more about my work, my website is ALifeOfOptions.com.
Passionistas: So at some point, do you think you'll take another week off and write another book?
Lindsay: I have already been asked about my future books. And apparently this is something that sometimes happens. Like once you write the first book, then you're free to think about like what could come next. Interestingly, I have been asked to write my next book on adult female friendship. and how, like my viewpoint and I have frameworks for everything again, engineer.
So I have a, an interesting kind of like framework and thoughts about friendship and it kind of fits in the right for you. Right. It's like, what is right for you in career? Okay. We've written the book on that now. Maybe it's like, what is right for you in friendship and how do you build friendships that really feel fulfilling based on what you know about yourself. So stay tuned. That could be a fun.
Passionistas: Love that love that idea. Mm-hmm excellent. Wow. That sounds great. All right. Well, so anything else that you wanna talk about that we, any other fun hobbies? I mean, I'm, I'm baking with you. I'm going and buying ball gowns.
Lindsay: Yep. Definitely do the baking. Do the ball gowns. Yeah. Whenever you see something next and you're like, when would I have the opportunity to wear that? Just think of me. Get the outfit, whatever it is, and then create your own opportunity to wear it. Um, I think the, the only thing I would say is just to have a lot of kindness and grace for yourself, wherever you are in your career, know that there is so much pressure out there. It is hard to do what's right for you. And also there are a lot of systemic barriers that can get in the way of that. So, you know, racism, sexism, ageism, ableism. So we talk about that in the book and how to find your agency, but if you can give yourself more kindness and compassion, that is my hope and my gift for you.
Passionistas: You're the best. Excellent. So glad we did this.
Lindsay: So nice to see you again so much fun. Thank you so much. You two are fantastic. And I just wanna acknowledge you for all of the, the joy and passion and love that you are putting in the world. So thank you for being you.
Passionistas: Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. Really do. And uh, hopefully we'll see you in person soon. Yes, yes. And, um, we're gonna post the winners of the tickets in the chat so everybody can check there. And, thank you so much, Lindsay. We really appreciate you being here. Everybody go by Lindsay's book right now, before you miss the special.
Lindsay: Get it quick.
Passionistas: Thank you. Good night everyone. Thank you so much.
Tuesday Feb 25, 2020
Lindsay Gordon Takes an Analytical Approach to Business Coaching
Tuesday Feb 25, 2020
Tuesday Feb 25, 2020
In 2014, Lindsay Gordon hit career dissatisfaction rock bottom at her job at Google. She started doing any exercise she could find, that would help her reflect on what was important to her and what she needed out of a job. She wanted to share the results of her research with others, so she founded A Life of Options. As a career coach, she works with analytically-minded people who are feeling uninspired or crushed by an ill-fitting job.
Learn more about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Passionistas: Hi and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking with Lindsay Gordon. In 2014, Lindsay hit career dissatisfaction, rock bottom. She started doing any exercise she could find that would help her reflect on what was important to her and what she needed out of a job. She wanted to share the results of her research with others. So she founded A Life of Options. As a career coach, she works with analytically-minded people who are feeling uninspired or crushed by an ill-fitting job. So please welcome to the show Lindsay Gordon.
Lindsay: Thank you so much. Happy to be here.
Passionistas: Thanks for joining us. So Lindsay, what's the one thing you're most passionate about?
Lindsay: I am most passionate about designing and creating content, frameworks, and experiences that inspire people to have the courage to take action and do what matters to them in their career. Cause I feel like I'm on a mission to relieve the amount of pressure and anxiety we feel about our careers and help people stop doing what they think is right in their career and actually start doing what's right for them.
Passionistas: So what led you to the place where that was what you wanted to do?
Lindsay: I think it was the experience that I had while working at Google, which is a fantastic place to work in many ways and also wasn't the right fit for me. And I found that the messages that I was getting was, well this is the best place in the world to work and of course you should want this, that and the other out of your job. And there wasn't any space for me to feel like it was okay to make my own decision that maybe it wasn't the right fit for me. And so I want to help spread that message that we can choose what works for us. And the thing that works for somebody else is not going to be the thing that works for us. And so really giving people that agency to make that decision for themselves, even though we get a lot of pressure these days about what work should mean to us, where we should want to work, all those types of things.
Passionistas: So now let's go back a little bit. You actually studied bioengineering in college?
Lindsay: I did, yes.
Passionistas: Why did you take that path and where did that lead you in the beginning?
Lindsay: Yeah, I always had been interested in math and science very early on and I loved getting to work with my hands and build things. And so engineering seemed like a pretty good fit for me. And I went to a fascinating tiny, tiny engineering school outside of Boston, only 75 people per class. That's how tiny it was. And it was all about building and design and getting to really understand your user, connect with people and all kinds of fascinating things. So I thought, okay, engineering is great. I also like biology. We'll combine those two. And I got to work on um, some medical devices with Boston scientific. I actually have a patent for a medical device. And so that was kind of where I landed in college. And engineering has always been interesting to me. I kind of feel like it's a nice combination of people, but then also that hands on design and creation work.
Passionistas: Were you doing that kind of work at Google? What were you doing there?
Lindsay: I somehow am on my third career already. So I started off in engineering, did that for a little bit and then kind of fell into doing technical support at Google. And I am one of probably a unique kind of human that actually loves technical support. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love customer service. Um, it's kind of the, again, that combination of getting to connect with people, but also having this treasure hunt. Every time somebody calls you and you know, they say, I have this particular problem and you need to figure out what are the right types of questions to ask them, what are the right troubleshooting steps to take. So I just absolutely love to getting to do. And I did about five years of technical support there.
Passionistas: So you talked a little bit already about the atmosphere at Google, but tell us like specifically what it was like working there and you said, you know, you were supposed to like it but you didn't. So tell us a little bit more about that.
Lindsay: I'm so grateful for so many things about Google. I got to meet incredible people. They have fantastic programs to bring interesting speakers in. I got to learn so much. I got to do a lot of facilitation at Google, which was great. And um, it just, it was a very big place, right? It's a big company now and there is bureaucracy and it's hard to move around. I really wanted to move to the more people side of the business after I had done many years in technical support and I found that a really difficult thing to do.
And um, I also, because I loved customer service and I love designing, as I mentioned, I love designing frameworks and um, exercises and all this kind of stuff. And on the team that I was on, it was a little bit more about metrics, you know, like are you the biggest case closer, um, you know, metrics in the direction of customer service. But I also cared about the people on our team and the people side of that. And so I was always trying to do, um, some other projects and it just felt like I was more expected to do more of the metrics around technical support. So I think I wanted a little bit more creativity, a little bit more ease of moving around. Maybe I would have thrived at a smaller company. And so those were a couple of the pieces that I was feeling that just didn't seem like quite the right fit for me.
Passionistas: So did you leave there knowing what you were going to do next or did you start to think about what your next move was going to be while you were still working there?
Lindsay: I completely fell into running my own business. Like all good career transitions. I did not know that this was in the cards at all. So while at Google, because I had so many of these other interests that I wanted to be cultivating, I started working on our onboarding and training for new hires. And as I was talking to our new hires, everyone was really stressed about, Oh my gosh, I'm new here. You know, how do I have conversations with my manager? What if I'm stuck in technical support for the rest of time? And so I just started talking to people about their job and how, how to think about it and kind of relieving some of that anxiety. And a lot of people said to me, you would be a great coach now, I had no idea what that meant at the time. So enough people had mentioned that.
So I said, okay, I really need to test out what this thing is. I need to go learn about it. So I took one class at San Francisco state about learning coaching tools and I was amazed because I didn't actually know that there were skills that you could learn that I was already trying to do innately. So I kind of accidentally signed myself up for this year and a half long certificate. Loved it. And as I said, my goal was to move over to a more people focused role at Google. So while I was trying to figure that out, people started coming to me and saying, are you taking clients? I have people to refer to you. And I was like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Everybody. Like I'm, I'm not doing my own business, you know, these are my plans. But luckily I said yes and kind of ran it as what I like to call my accidental side business and ran it for about a year while I was still at Google.
I'm a very risk averse person and one thing that I talked to clients a lot about is test out anything that you think might be the right next step for you. So I tested it out by running it on the side for a year as a part time thing. I also tested it out by eventually moving into a career development role at Google so that I can test out do I enjoy doing this? You know, is it something that I find fulfilling? Are people finding it useful? So after about this year of running it on the side, I thought, you know what, it might be time to try this full time and to really go all in and see what it's like to run your own business. And that was about three and a half years ago now.
Passionistas: And the perfect example to the people that you're helping, you know, you're practicing what you preach.
Lindsay: And a lot of times I think we talk about entrepreneurship as something that is very risky and um, read an interesting book recently, I think it was the um, side hustle book. I can't remember the exact title, but they talk about how actually entrepreneurs tend to be very risk averse and if you're doing it properly, you're trying to de risk every avenue possible in order to have the greatest success in doing your own thing. So I like kind of sharing that message to have, it doesn't need to be just, I'm going to quit anything. Everything without having any idea whether I like it. I haven't tested anything out. Actually, there are many ways to de-risk the process so that you can feel really good about running your own thing, if that's the right thing for you.
Passionistas: So talk a little bit about the approach you take to working with a client through your company.
Lindsay: So I'm quite unique in this space in that most career coaches come from a background of hiring and recruiting. But given that I have this engineering background, I kind of think of the work that I do as I am applying my engineering brain to this question of how do we even know what we're looking for in a job that's a good fit for us, and how do we do that in the most practical and structured way? So I've designed a three month process that I take people through that gets them clear about what they're looking for. So we look at, you know, what's important to them in life and how does work fit into that? What's their philosophy of work? What are their values? What are their beliefs about what a successful life looks like? And then we start to look at, okay, let's understand your current role and how that actually fits in with what we're learning about you.
Because a lot of people come to me and they are frustrated, they're stuck, they're aimless, they are convinced they need to quit, they're dissatisfied with where they are and they feel like they should have been further along in their career. And what's interesting is that when I take people through this process of learning all about themselves so that they can make decisions that feel good to them, more than 50% of them don't end up quitting. And it's, it's not that they, it's not that everybody completely falls back in love with their job, which does happen, but people get to see their job a little bit differently. And we take away that like, Oh my gosh, my only option is to quit. And so they can see, okay, even though this is maybe not the right fit for me long-term, I understand what I'm getting for from it right now.
And I can start to work towards what that next step might be. Whether that's an internal transfer, whether that's moving to a new company, whether that's moving to a new field. I had a client who came to me and she was like, I need to quit. I'm done with this job. I might even be done with this field. Like I don't know that this is what I want anymore. Two sessions in, we did a couple of exercises and she kind of like laughed and was like, actually I job is a great fit for me for all of these particular reasons. I was hyper focused on the downsides and actually if I make these two changes, um, I'm really grateful for where I am and this is actually a great fit for me. So I think the, the mindset piece is such a big piece. Sometimes nothing about the external situation has to change for you to have a different experience of your work.
Passionistas: And of the people that do make a major change, do you find that there's like a common thing that has been holding them back from doing that?
Lindsay: I would probably say there are two aspects. One is not being really clear for themselves about what their strengths are. I think oftentimes when we have strengths, we think of them as, Oh, but that's the easy thing that I do. Doesn't everybody do that? Or you know, Oh, well that's just how my brain works. And so when people don't see those things as strengths, then they wouldn't even think to pursue something in that direction. So for example, I had a woman who was working in engineering who, uh, wanted to move to something else, was unhappy there, and she had never thought of teaching as a big strength of hers, but it kept coming up over and over again in these exercises. So she ended up moving internally to another fantastic job that was more teaching the engineering, um, discipline. And so she's over the moon, but just had never considered that before.
And then I think the other thing is not letting yourself make that choice because of the pressure, right? There's always pressure from society, from family. One quick example I'll give there is that I worked with somebody who works in project management and she said, Oh yeah, I've always had a lifelong dream of doing art for video games. But that was never something that my parents allowed me to do. That was a, uh, an approved, you know, thing to study. And so she's studying engineering, she's been working in project management and you know, once we discovered that, it was like, okay, well let's finally explore this if you've been waiting your whole life and thinking about that in the back of your mind. So she started taking small steps towards that, right? Creating a portfolio, starting to work with a mentor, uh, exploring what additional schooling would look like. And then over the course of testing it out over a year, she contacted me recently and was like, Lindsay, I have signed up for two year MFA. I cannot even believe that I am doing this thing. I thought I would do this.
Passionistas: What do you think is the most important steps people need to take when they're thinking about making a career change?
Lindsay: I think the first is identifying the pressure that you feel and just starting to be clear about that because if you can't separate what you actually need and what your desires are from the messages that you are getting from other people, that's going to make it really difficult for you to assess if this is the right move for you. So I've always helped people, you know, let's identify and relieve some of that pressure. And then I think the second step is to start to learn as much as you can about what is working and what is not working.
Because as I mentioned, oftentimes we get really hyper-focused on the downsides and if we can zoom out a little bit and really look more broadly and understand, okay, if I know what my strengths are, then I can understand how well is this job that I'm doing currently in line with those strengths. If I understand a lot about the type of environment that I like to work in, then I can start to understand, Oh, it makes total sense why this particular thing is not a good fit for me because it doesn't match up with the environment. So I really advocate for learning as much as you can about what works for you so that you can accurately assess how the current job you have is matching up to those things
Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Lindsay Gordon. To learn more about her work as a career coach. Visit ALifeOfOptions.com. Now here's more of our interview with Lindsay.
Passionistas: You're obviously very confident, but do you ever get self-doubt and how do you get past it?
Lindsay: 100% my goodness, I like to say that running a business I have had highs that are way higher than any nine to five I've had and lows that are way lower than any nine to five I've had. So I think it's so common as a business owner to have self-doubt. Um, I remember several times, especially in that first year where I just got rocked by something. You know, it is, it is very personal for the product to be you, right? Everything that I've created comes from my mind. It's my ideas. I'm out there selling myself. And so in the beginning it does feel very personal if people are saying no to you. I remember the first time where I felt like maybe the client wasn't getting exactly what I wanted and you know, really shook my confidence. So it's hard. It still happens. I think that's probably something that never goes away. But I'm better, you know, riding the ebbs and flows.
One thing that I have really appreciated and that has helped with confidence is collecting a group of fantastic women who are also running their business. And we meet virtually once a month and just check in, you know, who feels like their business is broken today. You know, who, um, has some great things to celebrate who has some questions, who's struggling with the time of year that we're in and the low volume of clients or whatever it is. But really just being able to share and not feel like I am alone in my house doing this thing by myself. So that's been huge for me.
Passionistas: What's your best habit?
Lindsay: I think my best habit is reaching out to people. So for whatever reason I have been graced with kind of the excitement and willingness to just reach out to anyone that I find interesting or anyone that I connect with and to see how I might be able to help them. How am I be able to learn about their business? Who I might know that I can connect to? So this group of women that I've created, I think it's probably 30 or 40 women at this point, and it's really just anyone who I come across, I could see your name in a newsletter, I could, you know, hear about you from a friend and I'll reach out. And if I think you're fantastic and I want you in kind of my circle of entrepreneurs, I will invite you to this group and to collaborate on workshops with me.
So I think kind of that feeling of connection and building the community that I want has always been something that comes really easily to me. So kind of explain it as I aggressively friend people, but I think I get to meet a lot of interesting people that way and people actually respond really positively to somebody reaching out and saying, Hey, I think you're fantastic. I would love to hear more about what you're up to and how I might support you.
And I actually, when I first started running the business full time, I did not think I was going to like it because of how lonely it was. I am already an introvert and so I'm at risk of, you know, not leaving my house for four days if I'm just working at home by myself. And so because I knew that was something that I was worried about, I really made an intentional effort to build a community. And that's something I help clients do too. If you're worried about anything, like, I don't know if this career is going to be a good fit for me for this, that and the other reason. That's so helpful because then we get to design around that. We get to take intentional action to figure that out, so I definitely knew that that was something I was going to struggle with and I needed to work hard at it to make sure I enjoyed running my own business.
Passionistas: Is there a lesson that you've learned so far on your journey that really sticks with you?
Lindsay: I think the lesson that we get to change our mind, we get to change our career. We get to try new things and it is never too late. I hear the message a lot that, well, I studied this in college. I'm not using my degree. Well, I've already been in this area for so many years and I just, I don't want people to feel that way. I want people to feel like their career is a long and varied path. Who knows how it's going to go. There's going to be a lot of serendipity be open to falling into things.
I think for me, you know, engineering to customer service to running your own business as a career coach makes no logical sense if you were to explain it in that way. And I think people get really wrapped up in, you know, well it looks really chaotic, the things that I've done, but there's a way in which I can tell my story where it has always been about listening to people, understanding their challenges, building frameworks and experiences for them to inspire them to take action. And that's been true across engineering, technical support and career coaching. And so I want people to feel like there's more playfulness and fun and curiosity and serendipity that goes along with career rather than feeling like I have to do this one thing because that's where I landed.
Passionistas: Do you think there's a personality trait that you possess that's helped you succeed?
Lindsay: I think curiosity is probably one of the biggest things that is just constantly running for me. And I'm curious. So I was curious about the onboarding of new hire experience and started talking to them. Somebody mentioned a coach. I was really curious about that. And so I think I love following that curiosity and learning about these interesting opportunities that I hear about and it really opens up a lot of doors. If you follow your curiosity.
Passionistas: What's been the most rewarding part of your career?
Lindsay: As a business owner, I have never felt more creative and impactful. I get to design things and come up with ideas as often as I want. Designing programs, designing workshops, designing exercises for people. I absolutely love that part of it. And then as far as impact, it's an incredible feeling to know that every result that I get, I made that happen through my courage, through my creativity, through my gifts, through my actions, through my requests. And so it's a very direct, I put effort in and I get results. And so it's very exciting to me to be able to feel those two pieces every day. And I think that's my favorite part of being able to run my own thing.
Passionistas: And have you had professional mentors?
Lindsay: Yes. That word always feels so big to me if like, Oh my gosh, do I have an official mentor? Yes, of course. I have had people who have been so thoughtful throughout my career. One that comes to mind is my most recent manager at Google who has been a fantastic support for me and has believed in my business probably before I even did. So he's been fantastic. There are also people who, one person that comes to mind, you know, I, she was a woman who had been running her business for a little bit longer than I had and when I started running my business and have this reaching out thing that I do, I reached out to a lot of other women and said, I would love to learn from you, you know, learn about how your business is going and see if there are ways that I can support you. And one of the things that she did is she said, Oh, I referred you to this other person, but I told them that your rates were higher than they are because you're actually charging too little.
And you know, even moments like that, I consider that to be such a gift. And you know, a moment of mentorship where somebody who was a little bit further along than me was able to support me and you know, teach me something that I didn't know. So I'm always looking for those opportunities to, to be able to do that to another woman who's just starting a business of like, Oh, you're undercharging yourself. Great. I'm going to send you to somebody and tell them that you, your rates are higher. So things like that, there've been so many people along the way, especially in building a business that have been so supportive. And I think we sometimes hear this question of why don't women support women? And from my personal experience, I have not found that to be true at all. I have found the most supportive women who are running their businesses, who are all about let's help each other so that we can all thrive. So I've been really happy to see that be the case and I want to help continue, you know, being somebody who supports others.
Passionistas: Do you have a mantra that you live by?
Lindsay: One of the ones that always sticks in my head is the proverb around the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is now. Um, and another one that I use in business that comes from one of my, another one of my business mentor is a business coach. Um, that has been fantastic to work with is it's not a question of if it's a question of when. And so as I go about my business and as I think about the impact that I want to make, it's not a question of if I will make that impact, it's a question of when I will make that impact.
Passionistas: What's your definition of success?
Lindsay: Making choice of the feel good to you? I think doing the things that are important to you, living in line with your own values and for me having some sort of positive impact as well. So I, I, I want to lead a great life that does something great for the world that has an impact on other people. And success is, you know, doing that in line with the way that I want to live life.
Passionistas: What do you wish women knew?
Lindsay: It's okay to do what's right for you? I think is my simple message across my business. I have a, a controversial message that it's okay to have a boring job if it works for you. And I think we need more messages like that where actually we get to choose, you know, identify what's right for you and then do that.
I have a, one of my most earliest clients had a really high paying lawyer job and everyone around her in her community was saying, um, you're being under-utilized. This job was not challenging enough. You should get out of there and be doing something more. And so she came to me and was like, yeah, I'm being kind of under-utilized at my job and I'm being well paid. So I don't really know how to think about this. And once we started discovering what was most important to her, she found that providing financial support for her then young son was the most important thing for her. And so she was able to make this really confident decision that actually this job gives me exactly what I need right now. It pays me really well. It allows me to provide that financial stability and I actually have extra mental energy and time to be able to go and spend it with my son.
And so to see her make that decision, even though everyone around her was saying, you should be challenged more or you should be utilized more, you know, was such a powerful moment. So the more that women can feel like it is okay for them to identify what works for them, even if it feels controversial, even if it's against the, you know, messages that they're getting from society and from their family, I would just be happy if that is part of my legacy of getting women to, to feel like they have agency and can make the choices that feel good to them.
Passionistas: What's your dream for yourself?
Lindsay: To live life courageously, to always be taking action and having an impact in the world and being able to follow my interests. I just want to lead a courageous, exciting, adventurous life that hopefully inspires other people to do the same with the things that are important to them.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Lindsay Gordon. To learn more about her work as a career coach, visit ALifeOfOptions.com. Please visit the PassionistasProject.com to learn more about our podcast and our new subscription box filled with products made by women-owned businesses and female artisans. To inspire you to follow your passions. Sign up for our mailing list to get 10% off your first purchase, and be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.
Friday Mar 02, 2018
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on the biggest risk she's taken and how it paid off
Friday Mar 02, 2018
Friday Mar 02, 2018
Lindsay Gordon on the biggest risk she's taken and how it paid off.
Hear more from Lindsay:
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on advice for women making a career change
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on lessons she learned from her mom
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on if she will change careers again
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on establishing her daily routine working from home
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on Ramona Harvey
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her female icons
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her cultural heroines
Hear Lindsay's full episode here.
Learn more about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
Friday Mar 02, 2018
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her female icons
Friday Mar 02, 2018
Friday Mar 02, 2018
Lindsay Gordon on her female icons.
Hear more from Lindsay:
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on advice for women making a career change
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on the biggest risk she's taken and how it paid off
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on lessons she learned from her mom
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on if she will change careers again
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on establishing her daily routine working from home
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on Ramona Harvey
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her cultural heroines
Hear Lindsay's full episode here.
Learn more about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her cultural heroines
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Lindsay Gordon on her cultural heroines.
Hear more from Lindsay:
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on advice for women making a career change
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on the biggest risk she's taken and how it paid off
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on lessons she learned from her mom
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on if she will change careers again
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on establishing her daily routine working from home
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on Ramona Harvey
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her female icons
Hear Lindsay's full episode here.
Learn more about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on Ramona Harvey
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Lindsay Gordon on Ramona Harvey.
Hear more from Lindsay:
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on advice for women making a career change
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on the biggest risk she's taken and how it paid off
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on lessons she learned from her mom
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on if she will change careers again
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on establishing her daily routine working from home
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her female icons
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her cultural heroines
Hear Lindsay's full episode here.
Learn more about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on establishing her daily routine working from home
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Lindsay Gordon on establishing her daily routine working from home.
Hear more from Lindsay:
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on advice for women making a career change
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on the biggest risk she's taken and how it paid off
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on lessons she learned from her mom
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on if she will change careers again
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on Ramona Harvey
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her female icons
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her cultural heroines
Hear Lindsay's full episode here.
Learn more about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on if she will change careers again
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Lindsay Gordon on if she will change careers again.
Hear more from Lindsay:
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on advice for women making a career change
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on the biggest risk she's taken and how it paid off
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on lessons she learned from her mom
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on establishing her daily routine working from home
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on Ramona Harvey
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her female icons
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her cultural heroines
Hear Lindsay's full episode here.
Learn more about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on lessons she learned from her mom
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Lindsay Gordon on lessons she learned from her mom.
Hear more from Lindsay:
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on advice for women making a career change
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on the biggest risk she's taken and how it paid off
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on if she will change careers again
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on establishing her daily routine working from home
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on Ramona Harvey
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her female icons
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her cultural heroines
Hear Lindsay's full episode here.
Learn more about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on advice for women making a career change
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Tuesday Mar 20, 2018
Lindsay Gordon on advice for women making a career change.
Hear more from Lindsay:
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on the biggest risk she's taken and how it paid off
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on lessons she learned from her mom
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on if she will change careers again
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on establishing her daily routine working from home
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on Ramona Harvey
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her female icons
BONUS: Lindsay Gordon on her cultural heroines
Hear Lindsay's full episode here.
Learn more about Lindsay.
Learn more about The Passionistas Project.