The Passionistas Project Podcast

Charlotte Harrington Looks at the World Through a Fresh Lens

Charlotte Harrington is the host of The Fresh Lens Podcast and our niece. At just 12 years of age, Charlotte is a social justice advocate whose passion for women's rights and support of the Black Lives Matter movement, among other issues, has inspired her to launch her own weekly show to tackle the tough issues.

Listen to The Fresh Lens Podcast.

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Kat Calvin Helps Spread the Vote

Kat Calvin is the Founder and Executive Director of Spread The Vote and the Co-Founder and CEO of Project ID. A lawyer, activist and social entrepreneur, Kat has built a national organization that helps Americans obtain the ID they need for jobs, housing and life, and that also allows them to go to the polls. Kat is also the co-host, along with Andrea Hailey of Vote! The Podcast.

 

More info about Kat.

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Full Transcript:

Passionistas: Hi, and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And before we start our interview today, we wanted to tell you about our upcoming event from Friday, August 21st through Sunday, August 23rd, we'll be hosting the Passionistas Project Women's Equality Summit. The three-day virtual event will feature live panel discussions, prerecorded presentations, daily workshops. The Passionistas Portraits storyteller event. The LUNAFEST® short film festival, a virtual marketplace and a Pay It Forward Portal. We'll also be presenting the first annual Passionistas Persist Humanitarian Award to a very special honoree. The weekend is centered around the theme of women's equality and intersectional feminism from a range of perspectives, including racial equality, LGBTQ plus rights, financial equity, voter suppression, ageism, physical and mental health issues, religious persecution, and so much more. And best of all, it's free for the weekend. Go to ThePassionistasProject.com to register.

And now for today's interview, we're talking with Kat Calvin, the Founder and Executive Director of Spread the Vote and the Co-Founder and CEO of Project ID. A lawyer activist and social entrepreneur, Kat has built a national organization that helps Americans obtain the ID they need for jobs, housing and life. And that also allows them to go to the polls. Kat is an advisor to Ragtag and DemCast and sits on the boards of the California Women's List. Kat is one of the Time magazines 16 people in groups fighting for a more equal America, 2018 Fast Company 100 most creative people in business and has been a Business Insider 30 under 30, Grios 100 and more. So please welcome to the show. Kat Calvin.

Kat: Thanks so much for having me.

Passionistas: Thanks for joining us today. What's the one thing you're most passionate about?

Kat: That's an incredibly difficult question, probably movies. I love movies more than anything. That's probably my greatest passion in life. What is it about movies that mean so much to you? I came up in theater and I love storytelling and I love accessible storytelling. And so I sort of studied a lot of theater and sort of the difference between the way theater was during the times of Eschalas and Shakespeare, what it was for the commons. And now it's less successful, but TV and film and took lately. Now that we have streaming, et cetera, it's accessible for everyone. And I think that great storytelling that everyone can see is really amazing. And I come from a big movie loving family. So it's most of my early memories have to do with like Butch and Sundance or Hitchcock or something.

It's pretty much what I talk about all the time. If I'm not talking about IDs or voting, most people like you are the wrong business. If I had to choose one great passion, I'm sure the answers should be something related to what I do for a living, but it's actually movies, which is no secret to anybody.

Passionistas: So let's talk a little bit about what you do for a living. So talk about Spread the Vote. What inspired you to start it.

Kat: At Spread the Vote we help people get government issued photo ID, which they use for jobs, housing, to get food at many food banks to sleep in many shelters, etc, everything you need an ID for in life. And then in many States across the country, they also use them to vote. So we help folks get all of the documents required. Birth certificates, proofs of residency insurance, not insurance identity, etc. We pay for everything. We provide transportation advocacy at the DMV and government offices and do whatever it takes to get an ID of their hands. This is all pre apocalypse, of course. And then when an election comes around, we make sure they're all registered to vote. And then we do a lot of voter education. 77% of our clients have never voted before. So we do a lot of helping just walk folks through the process and what's going to be on the ballot and how to vote, et cetera. And then we take them to the polls. So that's sort of the process A to Z. I started it after the 2016 elections. Actually we're about to have our third birthday. I started December of 16, but we count our official birthday is May 6, which is when we launched our first chapter. And so now we're in 12 States. We're working hard, getting ideas everyday until like a month ago. And now we're all just like waiting for the zombies to come.

Passionistas: Don't watch any more zombie movies. That's not going to help you right now. It's just going to make it harder. That is an incredible mission to be on. Was there an inciting incident that inspired you to do this, or was it just kind of something that had been on your mind?

Kat: I would say the election in November of 2016 was the inciting incident. I had studied voting rights in law school and some done a lot of work around it and sort of the voting rights act, but we still had one at that time. I didn't really feel that it was a really pressing me to like go into voting rights work. And I went into some other spaces. And then when the VRA was declined in 2013, we started to see a lot of things change about voting in America, particularly voter ID laws were being passed pretty quickly. And then the '16 elections were the first national elections where we didn't have the protections of the voting rights act and where we saw the effects of a lot of these new laws and rules. I'm including the effects of voter ID laws I'm and I had run some other organizations and I had some health issues.

I had sort of decided to retire that lasted a year, then the election happened. And so then I knew I had to sort of get started again. And there were a lot of really fantastic organizations trying to fight voter ID laws through judicial or legislative remedies, which have been less successful than would be desired, but there weren't any organizations, national organizations just getting IDs. So that sort of made sense to me as a good place to start.

Passionistas: Talk about the nuts and bolts of it. How do you go about finding the people who need these ideas and how do you help them?

Kat: Well, there are over 21 million people in the country over the age of 18 who do not have government issued photo ID. So finding people who need help getting ideas, not a challenge. We partner with a ton of organizations, uh, any type of organization that works with the same 11% of the population that we work with. Um, if you don't have an ID, then you can't get a job. I get housing, et cetera. So it's a large percentage of people who are experiencing homelessness, a lot of returning citizens, um, a lot of seniors and students with low or no incomes. Um, so we partner with shelters and food banks and prisons and jails and public defenders and schools and senior centers and just all of those types of organizations.

And we either go to them or they refer people to us, depending on the situation. You know, we work with a lot of, uh, domestic violence. I'm the shelters. And so, you know, there, we have to be specially trained and they refer people to us versus if we're going to a food bank once a week. So we really work with each community based on what works best for them. I am. And then we have our mostly volunteers. We have over 600 trained volunteers, but then we also have a few field staff who go into these spaces, um, and, and connect with the clients. Uh, we also get, you know, at this point, a lot of people who call us or email us, or fill out a form online that we have, but they all get connected with someone who then walks them through that process of helping them get those documents, paying for everything, helping them get to final records and the DMV and wherever they need to go and making sure they get the idea in their hand.

Passionistas: Why is this so important right now?

Kat: Now it's important because there are over 21 million people in this country who don't have the ID. They need to see a doctor, right? Like there are really immediate needs. You can't do anything really without an ID. And so when you think about, you know, people who need to get employed, one of the first things that happens almost every time we get someone IDs, they say, I can apply for jobs now, or we have a lot of people who get jobs. I can't start them because they don't have ID. And so, you know, you cannot escape poverty without an ID. Um, you can't get off the streets independently without an ID. And so being able to help someone get that means that they are able to, you know, pursue employment opportunities. Um, you know, a lot of cities and, and shelters have place housing placement services, but you can't get one without 90.

And I'm the reason we work with a lot of government agencies and shelters, et cetera, is because they don't have the capacity and knowledge to get ideas. So, you know, we've got people lining up around multiple city blocks to go to food banks right now, most food banks require ID. So they're necessary for life. They are, they can literally be life and death. And we've seen that more than once, but they are also a requirement to be able to change one circumstance. And then on top of that in a quite few States, you need an ID to be able to vote. And so if you don't have that identification, then you don't have the ability to exercise a basic fundamental rights.

Passionistas: This is also for us an obvious question. I mean, we need to get an ID. We need to know the real ID that's coming out. So we have to gather together our social security card and a electric bill and go to the DMV, but someone who's homeless and living on the streets, doesn't have an electric bill and doesn't maybe have access to the social security card. So how do you help them actually qualify to even get an ID?

Kat: So every state has very long lists of the types of documents that you can bring to the DMV. For most people, it's a mortgage or, or a, you know, uh, electric bill or whatever. And so those are sort of the top things on the list that most people go and get. However, there are a lot of other types of documents. And so it depends on the state and it depends on the person's situation. Um, but you know, we can frequently use a church or a shelter address, uh, to get, uh, to use for the DMV.

One great thing about voter registration is that a voter registration card counts as a proof of identity in most States. So we can use that. We have frequently had to chase down. We're constantly having to chase down records from the Department of Corrections or military records because we have a lot of veterans get IDs and they can't get the VA VA benefits without IDs, but they're veterans don't just get IDs. And so I'm depending sort of on that their background, or we, you know, track down sort of medical records or old school records or sort of whatever. So it, depending on the state and on the person situation, we go through the very long list of what documents are accepted by the DMV. And then we compare that with what the person has or what their history is. And so we figure out what it is we think we can get for them.

Passionistas: The amount of people on your team must have to be enormous. Can you talk about your team and how you've built that over the course of the last few years?

Kat: Yeah. I mean, we certainly need a ginormous team. I mean, we're lucky we have, we have a lot of really incredible volunteers and we have an online training program that they go through to get certified. I mean, I invented this certification, but I can't say, but they get trained to be able to work with our clients and get ideas. We have some field staff members in the, in some of our States who are incredible and sort of just get ideas full time, that's their job. And they do a really amazing job at that. And then we have a, you know, sort of small national team that helps with yeah, you know, our general counsel who is just constantly busy. I am, you know, and, and helping organize things. And our volunteer director, who's one person who's managing a risk, et cetera, volunteers.

We are mostly working with volunteers and mostly just working really hard to recruit and train and support our volunteers and, you know, 12 States with as many people as there are, there's always some adventure every day. There's a phone call with a new situation. Um, and so sort of dealing with all of that while also having, um, you know, we're lucky enough to have some field staff who are able to just everyday do this. We have some volunteers who've been with us since actually, since they helped us get our, the volunteers that helped us get our very first IDs in Virginia years ago are still with us and are now up to hundreds and are now probably the world's leading experts in getting ideas.

And then, you know, we have a field staff who I've gotten hundreds of ideas and I do it every day, um, et cetera. And so for the first year or a little under, if the first year I was our only employee, I sort of did everything. And then I'm just, you know, it's a nonprofit. So it's just all fundraising all the time. I was able to fundraise enough to start hiring staff and was able to bring in some great people. And then we sort of grew and built it out and sort of tried to figure out an experiment, like what makes the most sense as far as staffing and sort of just a lot of this sort of basic startup stuff of you, throw it out there, you figure it out. And I just ended up with this really great team.

Passionistas: Obviously the current state of voting rights issues is a little crazy. There's a lot going on. There's a big election coming up. So why is this issue important and why should people care about what's going on with voting rights right now?

Kat: Life is interesting right now. So there's a couple of things happening. The first is we have zero idea what life is going to look like in November. You know, hopefully I will be allowed to leave my house soon, or I might burn it down. I am, but you know, we don't know what the world is going to look like. And so a lot of us, I think most of us in this space are really trying to build out like 12 contingency plans. Everyone saw the disaster in Wisconsin, uh, forcing people to vote, uh, forcing them to vote in fewer polling places where now we, you know, they've had multiple, I think the last I saw was 19, but it's so highly contagious at that number will go up of COVID cases that are coming out of that situation.

And so everyone, I think, recognizes that regardless of what the world looks like in November and whether we're allowed back out, it's not going to be anything close to normal. We're still going to have to avoid gathering in large groups. And it's going to be very, very important to keep as many people away from the polling places as possible so that people who have to vote in person are able to. So there is a big movement right now towards vote by mail, which is fantastic. I vote by mail is by no means a panacea. It should not be the only option in any state. However, it should be part of a really great comprehensive voting package. And so the goal is to get all of the States that don't have vote by mail or easy vote by mail. A lot of States, you can do it if you are absentee with certain excuses, things like that, to open that up so that, um, anyone can vote by mail, which would significantly reduce the number of people that go to polling places and we'll have some increase on, on voter turnout as well.

So I think that's one thing that's really moving forward. The irony is that no state, well, there's a possible Kentucky exception, which I'll talk about, but the idea's not required when you vote by mail, which is ironic because the only type of voter fraud that exists in a very, very, very small percentage is by mail. However, fraud is used as the excuse to pass the ID laws of it's not. So, you know, that is one benefit to it. Kentucky just took time out of a pandemic to pass an even stricter voter ID law that they already had. And they are trying something new. They are trying to make people have to make a photocopy of their ID to send in with their vote by mail ballot, which I can't imagine standing in courts for one thing who owns a printer, nobody owns a printer.

I like the idea that this is a thing that could happen. I think it's bonkers. I might, but it is something that they're trying. So we'll see. But that is, I think that's a new thing in pretty much every other state, you don't have to show ID to vote by mail. There are other problems with vote by mail studies have shown over and over again, that people of color have their ballots thrown out at a much higher percentage than white voters. And so that is something that, you know, that's why a lot of people of color choose to vote in person, because there is no guarantee that if you vote, your ballot is ever actually going to be counted. I think that there are a lot of things that we can do to try to make that process more secure, but we're also in a global pandemic. And so for a lot of us, the choice will be vote by mail don't. I vote by mail every election because I don't believe in wearing pants when I'm voting. Like where my PJ's, I have a glass of wine. I can vote like vote pantsless. It's just, it's the only way to go.

So I think that's one big thing we're seeing. Another big thing we're seeing is trying to get young people to be poll workers, poll workers are traditionally heavily elderly ladies. My mother is always a poll worker. My mother is always one of the youngest people there and there, there are these wonderful, amazing, dedicated women who do this. And, and you know, a lot of men, there's a lot of older ladies and it is poor work hard. It's a miserable job. I always have to help my mother clean up and set up. And it's a very difficult thing that I think they go very under appreciated. But right now the exact population who we really need to stay inside and be protected is the population that usually works the polls.

And so there are now some efforts being made to really try to get younger people, to be trained, to work the polls. In many States, you get paid some amount of money in order to do it. You know, it's an important service and we really need a different demographic to come out and choose to do that. So there's an effort to recruit folks to do more of that. So I think that, that everyone is sort of trying to figure out there's also, this has really changed the way we do geo TV. I mean, normally, you know, normally my organization would be out getting IDs right now as I speak and we're not, I am. And so we're having to change the way we work and do work virtually and, you know, do more things if state agencies, you know, a jail that we're working with got 27 IDs last week because they can still do that. And so we're trying to do as much work as we can in the ways that we can.

This is right now at the time when voting rights organizations would be out talking to communities of color, low income communities and starting to, you know, not even starting, really being in the middle of the process of talking to people about voting because the get out the vote process is a very long process. It's not something you can just do an October. Um, and there are a lot of communities that don't have access to the internet or to phone. And so we, there's, it's a difficult thing to do right now. So everyone's trying to adapt and trying to figure out, okay, if we can all leave our houses in August, then that gives us, you know, two and a half months maybe to be able to like, get back on the streets and work. And what does that look like? So there are some efforts being made. There's also just a lot of contingency planning and there's some just sort of like, okay, well, we're going to do what we can now have been, wait and see what happens because we don't know what the world's going to look like in November,

Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Kat Calvin. We're excited to announce the Kat will be moderating the panel "How far have we come in a 100 years? Making sure all women can vote" on Saturday, August 22nd during the Passionistas Project Women's Equality Summit. To register for free for the online event visit ThePassionistasProject.com. Visit, SpreadTheVote.org and ProjectID.org to learn more about the work Kat is doing. And be sure to tune in, to Vote! The Podcast with her cohost, Andrea Hayley, available wherever you get your podcasts. Now here's more of our interview with Kat.

So during these crazy times, what can the average person do to help you and your organization? And also just in terms of keeping focused on the election I had, what can we do do to help?

Kat: So you can go to SpreadTheVote.org/volunteer. Luckily all of our training is already online. So you can I'm if you live in one of our 12 States, which you can find on our website, you can get trained. We're going to have, we also already do all of our volunteer summits virtually, and we had one planned for this summer. So I, we are working very hard to build an even bigger volunteer army so that the day that we can get back on the streets, we can go out in full force and try to make up for some lost time. I also recommend, you know, I, I am, I am always going to, uh, preach in favor of local elections and say, stop paying attention to the iron throne. It really doesn't matter all that much local elections matter and state elections matter. And Congress matters and candidates are working very hard to make sure that there are virtual conflicts come up with virtual ways to campaign.

And, you know, we had some already text making and phone banking and things like that. They're coming up with creative ways, find some local candidates who you care about, like, who is your Senator? Who is your con your representative in Congress? Who are your state legislative representatives and work on supporting them and helping to get out the vote and particularly looking at and press them on, how are they working to reach communities of color and low income communities that they traditionally would either be reaching out to in person or frankly, most don't really pay attention to even when they should be, because they really need to be thinking about what that looks like, and they really need support. And I think there are a lot of people who think that they can't support candidates right now because they can't like go knock on doors or they can't have a texting party and you still can't. So that's really critical.

And then, you know, I always point people towards Indivisible, which is a fantastic organization, which has a lot of local. I think they have at least two chapters in every district in the country. It doesn't say please, working on finding really innovative and great ways for people to get involved, whether it's virtual, I now, or in person later. Everyone right now is trying very hard to figure out what to do and, and, you know, sort of switch methods as much as possible. And we really need people to help get involved, whether it's doing a lot right now, or whether it's prepping right now to be able to do a lot, the second we can get back on the ground.

Passionistas: Is there a particular trait that you think has helped you succeed?

Kat: Well, I mean, I guess, I mean, I could say perseverance is such a cliche, but it's true. I don't think you can't be a successful entrepreneur without it are probably successful. Anything else, but I've only ever been a successful entrepreneur, perseverance, like just knowing, all right, I'm doing this thing. It's important. I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to fail like 8,000 times and yeah, but that's fine. Like I'm gonna make it work, I think is really important. And so whether that's perseverance or a little bit of grit or both I think is, is really key because you will hit so many roadblocks and have so many tragedies and you know, like I, if I could burn just all of last year to the ground, I would, I am. And like, you just have to really just keep getting up every day,

“Frozen 2,” first of all, if you haven't watched Frozen 2,” turn this off, watch “Frozen 2” come back and finish this. It's incredible. It's not Disney+, which is the greatest thing to happen to 2020, which is a low bar, but still, but the best song in “Frozen 2,” it's "Into the Unknown." Sorry, I'll say it's actually "The Next Right Thing." And it is a sign. As soon as I heard it, I was like, “Oh my God, this is my life.” Because it's all about how, when everything is terrible, you just have to take one more step. If you just have to think, what is the next thing I'm supposed to do? And sometimes that's just like, get out of bed can be really hard. And that's when you are an entrepreneur, when you're trying to do something new or something no one's ever done before, it's going to be really difficult.

And you're going to have a lot of people tell you all of the reasons that you are an idiot and a failure, and this will never work. And you're a terrible person and you're wasting time or whatever. And, you know, things will get really hard. And if you can just do next right thing, just take the next steps. Send the next email. Send the next, you know, fundraising letter or whatever like that actually does get you through. Cause then you look back, if you did 10 things and now you're, you're at a better place. Um, and that, that I think is probably the biggest key to my like still being alive and still running this thing.

Passionistas: Is there a lesson that you've learned on your journey that really sticks with you?

Kat: And I think it's the other side of that. I was very afraid to go into this year because last year was so terrible. And then I was talking to someone and they were like, yeah, but you survived last year and you're here. And I was like, Oh, actually, that's true. If I survived that, I stupidly that I could survive anything, not knowing the apocalypse. I may not survive being stuck in my house for the rest of my life. But I'm, you know, I think that it's the constant lesson and this has been a big lesson just of my entire life. And like the older I get, the more that I learned this is like, things seem so terrible when you're on one side of it, particularly when you're young, like when I was in my teens and twenties, like one bad thing would happen and I thought it was the end of the world.

But then the older you get, you realize, Oh, actually I survived that. And I forgot about it. That thing that I thought was going to kill me six months ago, I don't even remember anymore. I am another thing I was obsessing about for weeks can't even remember that person's name. And so I think that, you know, and then the older you get and the more you do and the bigger risks you take and the more successful you are, the crashes are harder and they're still very frequent, but you get through them more quickly and more easily because you know, I'm going to get through this. I survived that last thing I can survive this. It's okay if I'm super obsessing about this today, because in three days, I know I won't be, you just have that perspective, which you can only get through just living and just failing and just trying things failing again.

It's like, you know, I, I love to run and workout and every run, well, not everyone is easier, but like six months, you know, I can do a run and, you know, like the 10 miles is way easier than I can think back, like, Oh my God, six months ago, like eight was really hard, you know? And it's the same thing with life experience. And I think that that makes you more willing to try big things. I'm and it also, it makes the inevitable failures a little easier because you know, you're going to get through it. You have before.

Passionistas: So what's the most rewarding part of your career?

Kat: Oh, the people who, uh, who we have good IDs and, you know, we get just every day, there's, you know, there's so many stories that come in of peoples whose lives have changed and people who didn't have IDs for sometimes six months sometimes, you know, I think the person who we helped get an ID who didn't have one the longest was 40 years and everything in between. And just knowing that every single day we're able to help someone get the thing that they need to change their lives, that they couldn't get on their own. And that was the big barrier between them living the lives that they, they want to live, that they hope to live, um, and stuck in the same place. So just getting to do that every day and getting to do that with a really amazing group of people, uh, is, is completely rewarding.

Passionistas: What's the biggest risk you have taken and how did it pay off?

Kat: Oh, definitely this, I quit my job and drove my car across the country with some money we raised on, uh, like me have some volunteers raised with a little crowdfunding campaign and was like, I'll just start a nonprofit if it works out. And I'll put all of this on my Amex and figure out how to pay it off later. Um, like that was, was, you know, I've taken a little risks, I've started other things, but this was by far the biggest risk. And I mean, I'm gonna knock on all the words so far has paid off. Like even, even if disaster strikes and we entered the greatest depression and you know, I have to shut all the doors and move under a bridge. I, you know, there are thousands and thousands of people who have IDs now whose lives were changed because of the work we did. And so that will always stand. So no matter what happens in the future, it is 100% worth everything had to go through because, you know, there's that person whose life was changed because of this.

Passionistas: What advice would you give to a young woman who wants to be an entrepreneur?

Kat: Don't go to law school. I could go back. I don't go to law school. Don't do anything that would have you acquire student loans. I, you don't need to go to that incredibly expensive school, go to the great, fantastic state school, state school that will either be less expensive or give you a full ride. So that's my first thing. Like student loans will kill you and it makes it much more difficult to be an entrepreneur. Sure. Also, I know there's a big trend towards trend. I mean, at this point, it's as old as I am, but you know, like being very young and starting a thing, but then there's a reason that we so often see those companies either have horrifically bad managers who torture their staffs or they're running Ponzi schemes, or they're feeling an ethic ways or, you know, going to prison. Sometimes I, you know, there is real value in learning from people who've been there before you, I learned, well, I have had some horrible jobs at places that people think are really great and are actually like insidious hell holes.

And I learned a lot there. And a lot of what I do is like things that I learned not to do and those corporations or those large nonprofits or whatever, but you just, you get so much experience everything that I am using that I used to build, Spread the Vote are lessons that I learned and things I learned how to do, or at least learned the basics of from previous jobs. And I think it's so important. And also, you know, I try to listen and learn from people who are older than me, as much as possible if I'm talking to an older person and they start a story with "during the war," like my whole day is canceled. I am staying there. I will keep buying these during the war. That is literally, I live for that. I've heard great stories from old men at bars about like stuff Vietnam.

And I'm sure 80% of it is a total lie and I don't care. You know, it's, it's so important, you know, um, we know always have people who are older than me, you know, working at the organization or as mentors or whatever. And you can just learn so much from people who've been there before you. And it even feels weird to me to say that, but there's this like such derision against anyone who's not like a 21 year old genius and there are no 21 year old geniuses. And so I think that really being sure you're learning and that you're giving yourself plenty of opportunities to figure out who you really are and what you really want to do. Um, and then that you're studying that space.

I get so many young people who want to talk to me about their businesses and, you know, say I spoke to a young woman, wants to, she wanted to start a business in fashion. And I mentioned something about Women's Wear Daily and she didn't know what it was. And it's like, well, you can't, you can't run an organization, a business and fashion. If you don't know, Women's Wear Daily, it's the like cornerstone fashion magazine. Right? And like, you have to do your research. You have to know the basics. If you're going into voting rights, read every book about voting rights, know the text of the voting rights act, know who came before you and what they've done. You know, we, I think we interviewed everybody that we could find for me, but Brendan center, it's a local organizations, as we were trying to figure out, what do people tried before? What has worked? Why has it worked? You know? And then we would come up with ideas and we'd call back, you know, some of the same people and say, what do you think about this?

And they'd say this is going to work. And that's a terrible idea. And this is why this has failed 85 times. And that's what help is get to a solution that worked. You have to do your homework and you have to be knowledgeable. Um, there's nothing cute or fun or interesting about being an entrepreneur who doesn't know their space and Google is free. So really you ha you have to know what you're doing are know the business you're getting into in order to be able to know what you're doing. And don't go to law school for the love of God.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Kat Calvin. Visit SpreadTheVote.org and ProjectID.org to learn more about the work Kat is doing. And be sure to tune in, to Vote! The Podcast with her cohost, Andrea Hayley, available wherever you get your podcasts.

Don't forget to register for the Passionistas Project Women's Equality Summit to hear Kat's live panel "How far have we come in a 100 years? Making sure all women can vote" on Saturday, August 22nd. The summit is sponsored by Annette Kahler innovation and intellectual property attorney, LA Pride/Christopher Street West, Luna whole nutrition bars, the premium beverage company Tea Drops, TrizCom Public Relations and public speaking coaching company, ubu skills. To register for free for the online event visit ThePassionistasProject.com and be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.