The Passionistas Project Podcast

Pamela Skjolsvik

Pamela Skjolsvik is an author, book preservationist and activist. Pamela has been published in several literary journals and her book, Death Becomes Us, is a humorous memoir exploring how her journey talking to people about dying helped her learn to engage more fully with the living.

Read more about Pamela.

Read more about The Passionistas Project.

 

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Passionistas: Hi. Welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harington and today we're talking to Pamela Skjolsvik — a writer, book preservationist and activist. Pamela has been published in several literary journals and her book "Death Becomes Us" is a humorous memoir of her journey talking to people about dying which helped her learn to engage more fully with living. So please welcome to the show Pamela Skjolsvik.

Pamela: Thanks for having me.

Passionistas: Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.

Pamela what are you most passionate about?

Pamela: I have to say that I'm probably most passionate about books because books are integral to both my day job as well as my career aspirations — writing books, working in a library and also doing the book preservation.

Passionistas: Tell us how that relates to your career aspirations and your day job.

Pamela: I have two different jobs. I do book preservation for a man who collects rare books as well as art. And I work in a public library. So my day job involves kind of two different aspects of books. One is very solitary. I'm just dealing with a physical aspect of a book and preserving it, doing repairs on the paper or the spine, making boxes for these books to keep them preserved for future generations. And then at the library I'm working with the public, helping people find things that they're looking for. And that's probably my favorite part because I love talking to people about books or movies doing recommendations.

Passionistas: Talk a little bit about your path to becoming a writer.

Pamela: I really liked writing but it was kind of like a thing that I didn't feel. I could do in my family. Because I was kind of set up to be the responsible child and not do something creative. And I did that. But I love telling stories. And probably when I lived in Colorado about 2004, 2005, I joined the writing group. And I just had a lot of fun telling stories about myself, my family. And then I just tried to get that work out there and see if people were interested in reading it. And I got some early success with my writing so that spurred me to keep going.

Passionistas: What inspired your first book "Death Becomes Us"?

Pamela: I had a midlife crisis and I went to grad school. To become a writer. To have that validation like. To spend two years to study writing. And I didn't know what I was going to write about but we had to come up with the thesis. We had to figure it out. And I was with journalists and very serious types of writers. And I was like oh I really don't know what I wanted. You know I could write about my family or read about myself. And that's what I thought I was going to do. But then I was supposed to call my mentor and we were supposed to discuss my thesis and she didn't call me.

And I had my kids up stairs. They were young at the time and so I called her number. And instead of getting her I got a funeral home. Wrong number. What? So I kept calling and I kept getting it and then she finally called me and turns out that when she was on the phone, she had a landline, that calls would get directed to a funeral home, if she was on the phone. And that morning she was on the phone talking about the death of her favorite author David Foster Wallace. So she was talking about death. And then we started talking about funeral homes and people who worked in funeral homes. And I'm like, this is kind of weird. And she's like well why don't you go find up who works in funeral homes. And that kind of started the journey of discovering death professions.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about some of the people you talked to while you were researching the book.

Pamela: The first interview was with, I got sick stop with someone I worked with who said I know an embalmer who goes to the gym with me. Because I lived in a small town at the time and there was only one funeral home and they didn't want to talk to me. And he wouldn't return my phone calls. So this guy lived in New Mexico. I lived in Colorado time and we met and he actually was afraid of death and that's kind of what got him into becoming an embalmer. He had a friend who worked at the funeral home and he said that he drives up you can do pickups of the body and kind of get acquainted with what we do. And then he worked there a while and actually became an embalmer dealing with the bodies.

I didn't get to watch him do his work. And I thought oh that's interesting and. You know. I was done. But then things got a little more immersive and through my... I divorced my hairdresser which was very weird and uncomfortable. My new hairdresser it turns out that her son had died when he was 2 years old. He choked and his dad who was with him at the time felt horrible didn't know what he was supposed to do. And that kind of made him want to become an EMT. So when I went to get my haircut.

First time with her she said well you should talk to him. And what ended up happening is I ended up riding around with him and his crew for the summer. And for me that was probably the more difficult... probably the most difficult thing that I did during the research of that book. Because I realized that it's not necessarily death that I was afraid of it was other people's grief. I had a really difficult time being in the presence of someone who was grieving. And he lost his son. That was a pretty major loss. I felt like I had to fix it. You know. I think in American society we feel like we have to make people feel better. We have to fix their grief. And I think what I learned through the course of writing this book is there is no fix. People are going to grieve and it's going to take however long it's going to take and probably the best thing that you can do is to listen or to be present with that person and however they want to be with you at that moment.

Passionistas: The book uses humor in what's considered a pretty serious world. So how did you strike that tone when you were writing the book?

Pamela: Well I think that humor for me is kind of my natural defense mechanism. It's just how I deal with the world. And because it was such a heavy topic I often had to make light of it the humor in the book is pretty much all targeted at me and how ridiculous I am. Most of the time I'm not making fun of other people. It's like oh my gosh I am so inept in so many ways. I think humor comes naturally to me. And with this dark subject I think it needed it. Because nobody is like oh yeah I to read a book about death but if there's some humor in it and some relate ability it was like the spoon full of sugar to make the medicine go down.

Passionistas: Talk a little bit about what you learned personally on the journey writing this book.

Pamela: The first thing I learned was that it's not necessarily death that I'm afraid of. I think that's the easy part. My own death. It's other people's deaths and their grief. Is the more difficult aspect. I've learned that there's no quick fixes. There's no there's no three easy steps you know to get through grief or to help someone get through grief. That being present is very important. Food. You know giving people food is a big thing. And I've learned that I actually really enjoy talking to people about that because I get to have very deep conversations with people. Because I don't think a lot of people are like yeah I'll talk about that with you. It's just a conversation that doesn't happen that often people. And so I've got to have very intimate conversations and I still do.

I get sent articles at least once a week from people like oh I saw this thing about death or you know people feel like they can talk to me about it. It makes me feel good. That they feel like I'm a safe person. I'm not going there.

Passionistas: Has it helped you deal with your own personal loss differently?

Pamela: I don't know if it is necessarily made it easier. Because my dad died in August of last year. I don't know if it made it easier. But I didn't feel like I wanted him to have a good death. And wanted to have hospice involved. I wanted him be comfortable. I didn't feel like we needed to battle anything. I just wanted him to be comfortable and be present with him. My dad was kind of a loner and kind of a guy who, not a real social butterflyn so I figured that when he did pass he would probably be in the middle of the night when no one was around. That would have been the easy aay for him to go. So it was very surprising that he died in my presence. I felt honored that happened. But I don't know if the book made it any easier. Maybe just more awareness of what was going to happen. When it would look like.

Passionistas: While you were writing the book, you also were diagnosed with a social anxiety disorder. So talk about the cognitive behavioral therapy you did and how that helped you as a writer.

Pamela: It was a cognitive behavioral therapy through Southern Methodist University. It was a research study. I guess it was started out of Harvard. And I couldn't get a job when I first moved to Texas I could. I got accepted into this research study and there's probably eight of us when it began. And it was all exposure therapy. So basically they figured out, we had to tell him what we were afraid of, things that made us super uncomfortable. And rated them. And then each week we had to do these things. And they took us out in Dallas and made us do really, really weird stuff.

I mean like it started out to do introduce ourselves in front of each other. Which was really painful for a lot of us flushing an heart racing and you feel like you're going to get attacked and then it just got progressively more intense. I had to go out in a Starbucks and just stand up in a Starbucks and start reading for no reason. Just start reading and in front of the people at Starbucks. And it's basically to show yourself, that it's like a science experiment, that you're not going to die. You're going to do the craziest thing. You think it's just going to kill you if you do it, if you go through with that and then you realize oh that was uncomfortable but I didn't die.

And then I had to I had to go to an Ann Taylor store and I had to pick out clothes that did not fit me and put them on. And then come out into the store and ask people what they out of my outfit. Because I hate trying on clothes. That was one of my things that I didn't like to do. And I lived through that. And then I think the last thing I ended up having to do was approach a table full of men in a bar. And say hey I'm a writer and I'm doing a reading tomorrow night. Would you mind if I read three pages to you all as a practice? And I was like I can't believe I'm doing this. But they're like OK. And I did. And then they're like oh where are you on Facebook.

So, everything that I thought was just going to be horrible actually turned out to be not so bad. So, I guess what that taught me is to not be afraid to tr weird things. And to view a lot of what life throws at you as sort of an experiment. You know like. Look at myself as a test subject. OK I'm going to Starbucks. And I'm going to talk to a stranger. I'm going to be in the lineof the grocery store and talk to people. Because before I was like. Oh please don't talk to me I don't want, you know, I can't do it. But now it's like whatever.

Passionistas: Do you feel like doing that study helped me with the job at the library since the job at the library is all about talking to people?

Pamela: Yes. I mean I've done for my anxiety I've tried Klonopin and drugs to see if it'll help in the end they just make me want to sleep. So to say the cognitive behavioral therapy was the one thing that really helped me. And now I don't really get freaked out in social situations. I am not, you know, I'm not going to go to a party. You know I just know that that's part of my personality. It didn't make me a social butterfly but if I do find myself in a social situation I don't feel like I'm going to be attacked.

Passionistas: Is there some tool that you learned that you apply if you're in that kind of situation and you are starting to feel stressed out? 

Pamela: For me it's looking at myself as the subject and talking to myself and saying you're okay. You can get through this. I mean before was that whole fight or flight thing would kick in and I'm like oh god I gotta get out of here. But now I'm like you're okay. You're in line at the Kroger. Yes they are a little close to you in the back with their heart. But you're going to be okay. And you're only going to be here for another 15 minutes.

Passionistas: What was the chronology with the Dallas Fort Worth Writers Club? Was that before or after the therapy ended. So did it help you with that, too.?

Pamela: That was part of the therapy. Week two or three they said you have to join a social group and you have to go meet people socially. So I'm like OK. I'll find a the writers group. So I joined the DFW writers group. And that is a read and critique group. So you go and you read your pages a bunch of people critique it and then you die a little inside. And then you go of. So the first time I did that I did want to... I wanted to die. But, I forced myself to keep coming back and then it just got easier and easier each week to do it. That's helped me immensely. Yeah I have an MFA in Creative Nonfiction but the actual going to a writers group and listening to all different types of genres and different levels of writers and giving instant feedback has been extremely helpful in my writing journey.

Passionistas:  Do you think there's something specific that you've taken away from it?

Pamela: Well if you want to be a writer you have to write. You have to treat it as a business and show up and. It's kind of like you give back to what they give you. They're critiquing your work. You critique her work. Unfortunately I have been so busy with my two different jobs that I have not been able to attend the writers group probably in the past year but I do intend to get back to them probably this summer because I miss it.

Passionistas: And do you find time to write given that schedule?

Pamela: Well I did finish another book which is out on submission right now. And I started writing a second book in relation to that novel. But I am definitely not writing as much as I'd like to.

Passionistas: Can you tell us anything about the book you wrote thats out in submission?

Pamela: It is called "Forever 51." And it's.. I think I just have a habit of writing things that are kind of what the publishing world doesn't necessarily want at the time. It's about a vampire. It's about a menopausal vampire, eternally menopausal vampire on a quest to become mortal again. So basically she has to go out find the people that she has turned into vampires during her 100 years of life. So it's like a road trip. Then she's got a meth addicted sidekick. So it's a fun book but it explores death and also what it means to live in the form of a very cranky vampire.

Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Pamela Skjolsvik. Find out more about Pamela and her book "Death Becomes Us" at PamelaSkjolsvik.com. And now here's more of our interview with Pamela.

Passionistas: Talk to us a little bit about the book preservation job that you do.

Pamela: The job in book preservation kind of fell into my lap. I was looking for a job when we moved to Texas and they need someone to catalog the collection was probably like 15000 books. So I did that and then they brought in a man from California who makes extremely beautiful boxes for these super expensive rare books. And he just showed me a few techniques to do paper repairs on dust jackets and how to do custom fit Mylar. And so I started doing that and I enjoyed it. And then I took a few classes to learn how to make boxes. And then I went out and I spent a couple of weeks with him one summer to learn how he makes the boxes. And so probably for the past couple of years I've made boxes. And I really enjoy it. I like working with my hands and it allows me to be creative. And I don't care what Marie Kondo says. I think books are awesome. I like to have lots of books. You know they don't bring me joy like jumping in a hoppy house maybe brings me joy like that's joyful. Reading a book like "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy. That book did not make me joyful but I loved that part because it made me feel something. So with this collection you know it's preserving these works for future generations and making sure that they don't deteriorate any further.

I really enjoy it and I'm glad that I got to do it. It's kind of a dying art because it is so expensive to get into it. You need a lot of equipment and they don't necessarily have as many programs that teach paper preservation or conservation in the US. So. I feel pretty lucky to have been able to deal with it done thus far.

Passionistas: You've also become activist in the last few years. So tell us about some of the causes that are important to you.

Pamela: My activism started with the death penalty. In the book "Death Becomes Us." I interviewed Christian Oliver who was on Texas' Death Row. And I went to meet him the day before he was executed and talked to him. About it not about why he was there but basically how he felt about knowing the exact day and time of his death. Because that's something that nobody knows. And just from that conversation it really got me interested in learning more about the death penalt. In Texas they execute a lot of people still. I've done a few marches. I befriended Christian's girlfriend who is still incarcerated at the Mountveiw unit in Gainesville which is the Women's Death Row uni in Texas. It makes me sad for these people. Because I just can't imagine what life would be like. And I think that you know there's evil out there and people do bad things. But I think all of us are capable of doing something horrible just takes the right circumstance. And then you find yourself in a six by nine foot cell. And then no one who will advocate for you on the outside. So in my small way I have tried to help Sonya get glasses. Or help her getting her medication. Or communicating with her daughter which is probably the biggest thing.

And then after 2016, I have become more involved in the Texas Democratic Women's Club which grew from like 30 people before 2016. Now I think we have more than 700 members. Tarrant County, where I live, is Red. But, Beto, ya'll heard of Beto? He turned Tarrrant County Blue. He actually beat Ted Cruz in Tarrant Couty. Ted Cruz ultimately won the Senate seat back. But, you know I'm working to help turn Texas Blue.

Passionistas: Looking back at your journey so far has there been one decision that you consider the most courageous thing you've done?

Pamela: I think embarking on the grad school and deciding to write about death. Because I was seriously afraid of doing it. I felt intimidated. I felt like a fraud I felt like. Why did they let me into this school? I had one published piece. It was pretty good but I really wanted to impress my teacher... I'm going to write this and I don't know what I'm doing but I'm just going to leap and hope that a net is going to appear here somewhere. And it did. I can't say that "Death Becomes Us" is like the greatest book ever written but I got so much out of doing. I've got a story. That's another thing I'm passionate about is story. I'd love to tell stories. And hear stories. And. I met a lot of amazing people. And I grew a lot. I grew up I think through writing that book.

Passionistas: And what's been the most rewarding part of what you've done so far?

Passionistas: I really love it when someone reaches out to me and says I read your book and it really made a difference to me. Eric has a friend. Who read the book and he's a volunteer firefighter. And then he loaned it to his mother who's in her 80's and she sent me a letter like a fan... It's like my only fan letter. And she's like just loved your book and I feel like we're friends. And I just wanted to let you know how much it meant to me and I was like. Oh and that meant a lot to me. Anybody who's an artist whether you write songs or read books or paint pictures you want to feel like what you created has helped someone or changed how they thought or impacted them in some ways. So, that's rewarding to me.

Passionistas: You mentioned earlier that you were supposed to be the one in your family that took the straight path and wasn't the creative one. But what lessons did you learn growing up from your mother about women's roles in society?

Pamela: When I was younger I mean my mother had never worked. In her life. My parents divorced in 1974. And she had five kids. And so she basically had to start her life from scratch when my dad left. With all these kids that were a little crazy. My mom turned a receptionist position at a car dealership into becoming the top sales woman for that dealership a couple of years later. I mean they had to change, like 1975 or 76. They had to change it from top sales MAN to top sales PERSON.

So I grew up thinking you know that women are pretty kick ass. I felt growing that that women could achieve. You know if you can dream it, you can achieve it. Because I saw that with my own mother. Yeah she struggled but she did achieve things even in a time when those types of things weren't being achieved by a lot of women.

Passionistas: And what are you teaching your daughter about women's roles?

Pamela: When I'm teaching or do not go into debt for your education because that is the mistake that I made. But to pursue her dream. She's an artist and although I like the say don't pursue a creative job. There's just you won't be able to pay the bills. I think you have to have something that fulfills you in your job. And that makes you excited to keep you going. Yeah you need a day job but you also need to have a passion. Her passion is art. And it's exciting to watch her grow as an artist.

Passionistas: Do you have a favorite book of all time and a favorite book that you read recently?

Pamela: Probably my favorite book of all time is "Catcher In The Rye." That's like a book that made a huge impact on me as a teenager and I don't know why.  But I love that book. I love J.D. Salinger's voice. I love the character of Holden Caulfield and his observations about the world. Recently, I'll just name a couple. I like "Little Fires Everywhere." That was a really good one and I just read an American Marriage." And I like that. Did they make me feel joyful? No, but they left an impression on me. And I loved that about a book when it's like I will find someone else others is really good. 

Passionistas: What advice would you give to a young woman that wants to be a writer?

Pamela: Probably join a writers group so that you can be around other writers which will help you to not be afraid to get your work out there. Not necessarily to like a publishing house but to start sharing your work and giving feedback because I think that's really important. And also just to sit down every day and write and not be afraid to write horribly. It's just putting in the time and eventually you may not have a novel in one day but you'll have you know you sit down you write for an hour every day you'll eventually get there. So, making the habit of writing. And meeting other people who are of the same kind of journey you to share your work.

Passionistas :What's your secret to rewarding life?

Pamela: Taking things, this is going to get real 12 steps here, but I think it has a lot to do with being in the present. Taking things one day at a time. Just dealing with what you have on your plate for today. Setting goals. And yeah I want to write a book. So each day I have to take a step towards that goal. So it's going for what I want. But taking it day by day. Instead of well I can't write a bestselling novel by tomorrow so I'm not even going to attemp it. Now I look at things more realistically and how can I achieve this by just doing it? Little pieces. Bit by bit.

Passionistas: Do you have a mantra that you live by?

Pamela: Not necessarily  mantra, but my favorite quote is Henry Ford's "Whether do you think you can or think you can't. You're right. So, it's true. So it's better to fill your mind and do positive affirmations. Yes you can do that. And thinking it. I mean I'm a total believer in the mind. Whatever you think you can do, you can do. If you believe in yourself. I gave birth to a almost ten pound baby without drugs through hypnosis. I believe the mind can work miracles.

Passionistas: What's your definition of success?

Pamela: I can tell you what it's not. I mean I used to think that Oh once I get published my life would all work out. I think just having work, life, family balance. Just being satisfied with what I have being grateful. I think attitude of gratitude is really important for me. And feeling successful. Because yeah I'd love to be a bestselling author and that meant I might feel successful for a day. But that isn't going to sustain me forever. So for me success is the little things and being grateful for just this day that I have right now — food, I have my family, I have my adorable dog who loves me. I have a job that I get to go to. That spin. I used to say oh I've got to go to work now. I'm like I get to go to work. Success. It's not the big things. It's the little things.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with author Pamela Skjolsvik. Find out more about her book "Death Becomes Us" at PamelaSkjolsvik.com. And be sure to subscribe to The Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.

Tess Cacciatore

Tess Cacciatore is CEO of Global Women's Empowerment Network, an organization dedicated advocacy and activism for human rights. Tess is an award-winning producer, director, writer and editor creating content that focuses on social impact. She covers important topics like human trafficking, early child marriage, domestic violence and clean water initiatives.

Read more about Gwen Global.

Read more about The Passionistas Project.

 

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

 

Amy and Nancy Harrington: Hi and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking to Tess Cacciatore, co-founder of Global Women's Empowerment Network, which is dedicated to the advocacy and activism of human rights. Tess is an award winning producer, director, writer, and editor creating content that focuses on social impact. She covers important topics like human trafficking, early childhood marriage, domestic violence and clean water initiatives. So please welcome to the show Tess Cacciatore.

Tess Cacciatore: Hello. Thank you so much for having me on.

Amy and Nancy Harrington: Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. What are you most passionate about?

Tess Cacciatore: Well that's a loaded question because it varies as we talked about earlier today. You know my book ranges from A to Z. But I think the most important message that I'm trying to get out there right now is about people to have the courage to share our stories. Everyone has a story to share and I think it's really important. We have a hash tag revealed the hill which is all about how can we get vulnerable and share stories. And through that turn of events I'm hoping to be able to inspire self-love. I think once we have that self-love we're going to make better decisions about who we bring into our life and bring better awareness of what's happening around us and hopefully do better in our lives.

Amy and Nancy Harrington: Talk a bit more about how you've translated that passion into what you do for a living. 

Tess Cacciatore: Well Global Women's Empowerment Network started off as a 501 c3. I came back all the way up into the 90s where I had this vision of having an interactive multimedia platform of programming for social impact. But when you talked about virtual classroom and social impact inside of the entertainment industry back in the 90s people pretty much looked at me with my own like I had two heads. So I think the timing and the juncture of vision meets technology and the awareness that people have in the world is right now. So everything's been this small little building blocks these small stepping stones and some of them big leaps and some of them been drowning in water and coming back up around the cycles that we all have in life. But why I think it's really important about right now is because there is such turmoil going on in the world. National disasters what's happening in our world in many levels. And I think that it's really important to be able to be able to have that story to heal you know what is our individual stories how can we be compassionate for others how can we be compassionate towards ourselves.

In the ‘90s, you were working in the tech industry so what did you learn during that time that sort of bridged the cultures through technology.

Tess Cacciatore: So technology is really interesting I just moved to L.A. about five years previous to 1993 and a friend of mine Amy Simon said there there's this new industry that's happening and you're a great writer and a producer and maybe you can come and play in this wild wild west as we called it back then and there was very few women in industry. So I was really excited about seeing what was under the hood of what was going on what the worldwide web was what email was what all kinds of you know the inventions that were coming out.

And one of the side stories that I love to share is that I was with a group of friends and this one guy had this great vision and we became a board of directors and I got really close to getting US funding and the investors stepped away from the table and said ma I don't know if we want to really go down that path because I don't think anybody is going to really want to do an online auction and it ended up being this company that we called Rose Coie. And then about a year later eBay jumped onto the scene so I can fill up a whole hour of these near misses of what the vision was and how excited I was about technology.

But back in the ‘90s it was really cool because I thought this would be really wonderful to be able to bring good programming documentaries that could reach the corners of the world. I hadn't started really doing a lot of global traveling at that point but it was really an adventure to see where the imagination could open up and expand the horizon of where we can reach people and bridge cultures which I thought was going to be a really important thing for history because most of the time you know a lot of countries are westernized so when you go to Africa to Asia or to visit the tribes they're not they're wearing more western clothes.

And I thought this is so sad because what's beautiful is what sets us apart is that beautiful folklore and the legends and the stories that the ancestors passed down kind of like around the campfire where you get to teach each other what the generations have learned and that you learn from your ancestors. And I thought technology would be really important way to be able to bridge that. So through the 90s I worked on Web sites. There were big major corporations and we were teaching people how to be able to you know build the website and set up their email and it would be like Lotus U.K. or Sun Microsystems and I worked with a group of people we traveled all over the country and helped build this beautiful bridge to the world.

What I kind of love about the experience I had back then is it on my daily basis as a producer is really I have to get down and get really detailed in the backside because I had to work with the programmers on one side. I had to work with the creative team and I had to work with the customer and the client and the corporations and to be able to work in all of those worlds and be able to communicate and make a project go from A to Z and to be able to launch and to know the how to file things and how to organize things. I still find myself laughing every once in a while because the tools that I got back in those days of project managing and producing really stays true to me. So there's the technical side that I love from back in the 90s and then there's the more cultural side that technology is. We're on wireless and we're going pick up the phone and call around the world for free. And there's that deep touch connection that I think is really important.

Amy and Nancy Harrington: You started as an actress and a dancer and singer songwriter. So tell us about those experiences and what you learned during that time that inform what you're doing today.

Tess Cacciatore: When I was five years old I told my mom I wanted to go to New York and be a dancer. And so when I was seven she put me into a dance class and then I slowly kind of went into the theater world and if I think back about my childhood and who I was then and who I still am to a degree I have a very introverted shy side.

Believe it or not even though I speak before you know thousands and millions of people on any given day on broadcast or whatever and do public speaking there's still a homebody shy side to me you know in Des Moines Iowa Midwest girl great family life and good upbringing and all that but I just felt like that core of who I was still exists today. So the theatrical side really helped me expand. Even though I went to school for a BFA for music and theater and dance I moved to New York and I was an actress. I really felt that that helped me Blossom. It helped me be able to get the confidence to be able to talk in public and then I had to merge the other side of who I was and the passions and what I felt like I could do on the societal side but it all kind of links together in a very magical way.

Amy and Nancy Harrington: And so how did all of this lead into you doing video production.

Tess Cacciatore: I did a lot in front of the camera. But what I really loved back in my 20s was being able to be more part of the vision part of it all being a little bit more in control of my life. Because when you go to auditions as you know you're sitting in front of people that are making a decision about your life that you might not have the right color hair you might be too tall you might be too short. It might be to do that. And so it just came down to these molecular kind of decisions that were not in my control. And I felt like I want to be a little bit more in control my life and I'm really an advocate for that when I mentor a lot of people you know men and women younger people I say you have to really take control of what your destiny is. You have to create what you want to do. And I think with the way multimedia is now we have more power of that.

But that was pretty much my deciding factors that I really wanted to be able to have that creative vision I could see the whole picture. And I saw the whole vision and what the message was rather than just memorizing someone else's lines. I wanted to be able to create those lines so it gave me a broad Bactrim of how to be able to get more in control of my destiny. And then I had a lot of fun. I love directing I love producing. We're working on original scripted series right now where my producing partner and I are writing the scripts and we have complete control complete creative control of whatever we see and whatever we want to do. And that feels really good to have that. And I think we have more options at our fingertips now than we ever had before.

Amy and Nancy Harrington:What types of topics are you drawn to when you're creating a project or taking a project on social impact?

Tess Cacciatore: I have a slate of programs and projects right now that are going out. One's an original scripted feature film one's a foreign feature film once a music documentary once an original scripted series and the other one is the talk show that goes along with the original scripted series and that five Slate I just put the deck together in the last couple of weeks. It makes me feel so joyful because they're commercial driven. They really can make an impact within community and they have a special message that really helps lift up humanity gets people to talk about what's going on. It gets the dialogue going it gets the juices flowing and that's exciting to me to be able to get people to talk and get people to share.

Amy and Nancy Harrington:Why is that so exciting why do you want to focus on the humanitarian side of things?

Tess Cacciatore: I think it's just the way I've been wired. I believe that in my world that I want it to be something that has a result to give back something that has a result to inspire or to empower somebody someone that might be able to feel healed because they heard a story that I might share or one of the people that we're profiling on our series because it's all about that story sharing and healing. And I feel like there's the reality shows genres and there's the mainstream theatrical releases of beautiful films I've loved watching and experiencing it all but I felt like my niche was really about getting in there and really doing something that could make an impact or make a social message or inspire someone to go after a law for you know for instance you can get people to be inspired.

The fact that there are still children in our country in their states that still allow for young girls to be married at the age of 14 and we think that early child marriages in other countries but it's really right in our own backyard in the states that still have those rules and laws are surprising. It's not the states that you would think so to be able to let people know the statistics like there are still young girls that are being forced into marriage and this isn't like Romeo and Juliet or I'm in love with my boyfriend let's go run away and get married. These are older men in their 40s and 50s that are marrying young teenagers. And it's disgusting and it needs to stop. And they're forced into marriage because of whatever reason districts are atrocious.

There's also a statistic that I share which is 300,000 children are abducted on an annual basis out of the United States. People think that sex trafficking is again in another country but it's right here in our own backyard right here in California. San Bernardino is a very big trafficked place. I grew up in Des Moines Iowa. There's sex trafficking that goes through Interstate 80. A statistic that I talk about often on Super Bowl Sunday is that that's the highest domestic violence day and it's the highest sex trafficking day. Most of the sex trafficking happens when their spring training areas and a lot comes out of Vegas. But a lot of it comes you know from other states as well.

So I think through the programming we can bring awareness and let's say there's a group of people and I'll be there to charge with it to Washington or to our state capitals and figure out how can we change that law. Why are there still laws that allow for a 14 year old to get married and that kind of thing needs to change. So that's what I'm passionate about. I want to see that there's social change there's implications where people are being aware of what's happening in our own neighborhoods. You know we've watched the news all the time and we see these people going oh my god I didn't know who lived right next door to me. I didn't know that he had an arsenal of weapons in his basement or that he had three girls you know trapped in there for 10 years. It's really about bringing the awareness into what's going on in our own backyard and how can we help. How can we get resolution from different things that are happening.

Amy and Nancy Harrington: How do you choose which topics to focus on and how do you manage your resources and your energy to give the most to those topics?

Tess Cacciatore: I've found that in the last year or two I've had to really pinpoint and narrow down and it's really about social justice and human rights. You know equal rights social rights human rights social justice wherever you want to spin that. If it if it lands in that lane I'm right there I used to do a lot of work in the environment and animal rights. And even though I'm still passionate about that I'm really trying to narrow my focus in that and also through the platform that we're launching we're going to be able to give the ability for other people that have those passions to be able to fully explore what it is to save the elephant save the tigers save the penguins environmental greenhouse warming everything that can be happening.

I want to offer this platform where people can put their programming on it so they get to go fully diving deep into that issue. I don't have to necessarily take the focus off the eye off my ball but I give them a platform and I shine a light on what they're doing. And so I think that's one of my main wishes to shine a light on the people and the organizations that are making a difference whether it's in the nonprofit arena or through theatrical releases of documentaries or short stories or books or music. When are you launching that platform and getting the dates. By the time this airs it might already be out we're already on Roku but I'm really undercover right now.

We're going to be launching our programming on Amazon Fire, Roku, Samsung TV and Apple TV. And that's just the start. And through those four platforms alone we have access to 450 plus million subscribers. And that's potential subscribers then that big tap dance begins where you have to market them and how do you take the audience and bring them to your area and say Here we are. Because it's like grain of sand on a big beach. You know how do you how do you have that great of sandstone up above the rest because there's so much great content out there. So it's a big undertaking but I've been dreaming about it for a long time so I have a great team of people that work with me and we're going to make it happen.

Amy and Nancy Harrington: What's it called?

So Gwen Global is the incorporation and that has several silos below it. So there's the Gwen Studios which is our production house. Then we have Gwen Books so my book and other books that can go under that umbrella will be there and then we have Gwen Music and we have Gwen Tech and apps which I'll tell you about our app and then we have that when children's division.

So that all is one bubble of called Gwen Global and then Global Women's Empowerment Network is our umbrella and that's been in existence since 2012 and that's the one that does the advocacy the programs the workshops the community outreach which we're doing quite a bit of here in Los Angeles but we're about ready to embark on a 10 city tour and then we do work with sister organizations in Africa.

Amy and Nancy Harrington: We’re Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Tess Cacciatore. Check out her inspiring memoir “Homeless to the White House,” her story of personal healing and transformation which is available on Amazon. Now here's more of our interview with Tess.

Amy and Nancy Harrington:When did you first get into doing philanthropic work? Was it in 1994, when you started the world trust Foundation was that kind of a pivotal moment?

Tess Cacciatore: I think that pivotal moment because I've been asked that question a lot was when I was in high school I went to Dowling high school and we had this outreach program where we were able to volunteer. So I volunteered each year for the Drake special Olympics and we did a lot of work with kids with special needs. And it really opened my eyes and my heart. And I've always had that compassion then in my 20s I did some volunteer work.

I performed in a couple places that Honduras for instance was a real eye opener for me it was my first trip to a developing country and to see the little kids it was right when Nicaragua was invading and see little kids running down the street with big huge rifles in their hands and people that were homeless and starving and all kinds of things. It was my first eye-opener. I've always had that passion but I didn't know how to put it into action until 1993 when I founded World trust Foundation. Talk a little bit about that. That was an interesting time a turning point. You can read more about it in the book but it was me coming out of entertaining I was traveling with the band as a singer dancer.

We did a tour through Asia and I made a bad choice and I was in a relationship that was not good for me and it took me a while to get that oxygen mask on myself which is kind of a repeated theme in my life. And I left the band and left L.A. never to return. And I went back to Des Moines it just happened to be when the floods were hitting the Midwest and there was no running water no electricity for a while. So it was God taking me down all the way to the basics where there was like I had had to begin square root all over the place and I just prayed. And I said what am I supposed to do with my life where am I going I definitely don't want to be back to L.A. and that's when you say never say never because I'm here. It was a very interesting time for me so I had these people that we did the rebuild project in South Central after the riots. And I met one other guy that was from outside of the community and we exchanged cards I didn't really think much about it. I really wanted to work with the rehabilitation of the community I worked a lot with the gangs in a workshop and just was so heartwarming to me because these kids were really in a lot of need of just love and hugs.

And I just started to crack me open a little bit more but this one guy that I met left a message on my voicemail here in L.A. and I was just getting ready to it down and shut off my service and this one message kind of open the door of a whole world because he wanted me to come and help him produce a music compilation for a coalition of nonprofit organizations. And we started talking on the phone. We started faxing because they didn't have you know e-mail and all that so we fax ideas back and forth and then before I knew it I was back in L.A. and world trust began. So it was a interesting journey. Once again as I say putting the oxygen mask on surviving through a relationship that you know was really horrific one for me.

And it actually created those scar tissue of things that you kind of have on your belt as you live through life and then when you get to the other side then you have a whole other world of challenges to come. But I had to take that that compilation of scars so to speak and turn it into something that meant life to me. And I had to look at see what was my purpose of being here. I just didn't want to be a bag of bones just breathing and taking up oxygen. I wanted to be somebody that was going to be able to bring meaning to someone's life. So those trials in my own life led me to be more compassionate for others.

And that's where world trust started and then that turned and took when eventually you very open in your book about your experiences with relationships and domestic violence.

Amy and Nancy Harrington:Why did you decide to share those incredibly personal stories in your book and what do you hope other people take away from those stories?

Tess Cacciatore: Yeah, it took me eight years to write that book. So I sometimes forget about how vulnerable and open I came I really literally just cut myself wide open and it was almost my own personal journey of healing through that process and the writing. And what I wanted to inspire is that if I can bear all and all I did hopefully other people would be able to share even with a sister like you two are so close or with a close friend or with a therapist someplace to get that scar tissue out and to be able to share it. I'm not encouraging everyone to put all their laundry so to speak in a book and put it out there because it was a very hard time to do that.

And I second and triple and quadruple thought oh my God I might be doing wrong a mistake. You know the day it was coming out it was too late it was already coming out on Amazon I kept thinking is there any way I can pull it back. So it was not an easy thing to do but I felt it was necessary for me to become vulnerable and exposed and cut myself wide open so that I could really complete that cycle of my own healing so that I can help reveal to heal with other people and that's what our workshops are really about is what are our blueprints what are our addictions to that chemical reaction that happens when we are in that consistent repetitive cycle of abuse. How can we change that. And that's what I hoped that the book would do.

Amy and Nancy Harrington:You've spoken regularly at the United Nations and talk about that experience speaking there.

Tess Cacciatore: My first time speaking at the U.N. was in 2000 and I went to Switzerland and it was with Melba Spaulding who had this youth empowerment summit and it was named as yes youth empowerment summit and I brought one of our young delegates that I met here in Los Angeles. Earth Day and that's when I was doing a lot of environmental work. I spoke back then which was really about how technology can bridge cultures and bridge peace. And so I've been talking about this topic for so long. Technology could be the virtual classroom that we can really empower one another and have a way to talk about our passions and inspire people to be able to do better in their life or to become who they want to be. So everything's always been just truncated back into that same message over and over again.

The United Nations to me I'm really excited when I'm on the campus whether it's in New York or I went to Africa several times for U.N. World Conferences and I still go to Geneva. I'm supposed to go to New York and march for the Commission on the status of women which is will be my 15th year attending. Why I love it because I'm able to meet these incredible people from around the world I get to learn about each other's cultures. I film most of the time that I'm there so I have a whole body of work of film and footage that are really speaking about the stories of these women that lived much more atrocious lives than I ever could imagine. So it always gets me to get outside of my own self and be able to share that story of another woman who might have been a survivor of genocide in Rwanda or a woman who'd been raped in the eastern Congo or a woman who escaped sex trafficking out of Asia. I get to meet the most richest amazing people. And those stories inspired me to keep going on what I'm doing.

Amy and Nancy Harrington:You've traveled to so many interesting incredible sometimes dangerous places. Is there one place you've gone or experienced that helped shape your mission?

Tess Cacciatore: I've gone from Sri Lanka when we built homes after the tsunami to visiting the orphanages anywhere from Cambodia to Thailand to Vietnam to South America to South Africa holding these children in my arms that was always just a daily reminder i see those faces in my head and in my prayers every day. And it drives me forward. So those are always the precious moments of my life. That kind of gives me that purpose that overall purpose. But one of the most magical places that I've traveled to and I want to go back and that was more because it was a very beautiful spiritual experience with Bali and it was so beautiful to be there. It was spiritual it was magical. And I look forward to having those kind of days because then you can really that down and let go and listen. And the thing part of the prayer which is part of meditation is listening to your higher self-listen to God listen to Angels whatever you believe in is taking that quiet moment to be able to just absorb the precious moments that make all of those memories of all those kids and people in lives that I feel have touched my life all the more and much more valuable. I think it's important to have that balance to really slow down and take a deep breath and be inside of ourselves.

Amy and Nancy Harrington:You mentioned a bit ago the ten city tour. Tell us a little bit about that.

Tess Cacciatore: Yes, I'm so excited. I know we're on the radio but for the camera portion of it this is a lantern that is manufactured by empowered they are out of Brooklyn and I went to a play one night. Robert Galinsky I went to see him play it was a one man play about being homeless and he was selling these after the show to give the money to the women's shelter downtown. And I do a lot of work with homeless because of my own experience in being homeless.

Skid row is the epicenter of the homelessness in Los Angeles and a light bulb pun intended went off and I went when lights up skid row would that be cool and I liked the title I shared it with my board is shared with some friends. I contacted the manufacturer and I said hey I want to do this. Lights up Skid Row. I called Justin Baldoni people. He's been on my radio show before he's a dear, dear, dear person and he has this thing called Carnival of Love every year. And that's where he blocks off all these streets around the union rescue mission which I do a lot of work with as well. And January 26 he does the carnival of love where he has all these boobs in there that gives out medical services haircuts clothes toys whatever you can imagine. 

And I went last year as a volunteer so I called them up and I said I want to have a booth. I'm going to give out these solar powered lanterns and while we're there inside this barricaded place I want to get into the streets so I went with a couple of our volunteers and a couple of board members Christopher Mack who works down there in the skid row area. He came with me and we went up to the tents which is a very dangerous area and very dangerous thing to do. But we did it with love and respect and I had someone who was local that knew the temperature of the community down there and just asked them Would you like a solar powered lantern. And everyone received it with a lot of love. 

You have a three level kind of light switch on there and then there's a blinking light you can hang it on the inside a tent you know a lot of times you see these at sporting goods stores because people buy them for camping but when empowered. Saw the results that we had in skid row they loved the idea because they do a lot of community work they do in natural disasters and disaster relief. They'll send some lanterns out for people for hurricanes or tornadoes or earthquakes but they never thought about the homeless side of it all. So we're in conversation right now and I targeted 10 cities around the country that are highest homeless outside living in tents in the streets.

And we are building the campaign right now. We're raising funds to be able to bring this to these other cities and to give a gift of light and people that want to donate 10 dollars you can give a light and sponsor light that goes to one of these people because there's so many people live on the streets and it ties into the mission of what we want to do with Quine with our workshops which is really dealing with the inner turmoil the inner story. I'm going to keep coming back to that reveal the real story because if you talk to these people that live on the streets in the towns they have a huge story to tell and there's a lot of instances that is mental health and that's another thing that I think in the States we really need to tackle. You know that's a whole other conversation but I feel like just by giving a gift of light we're able to.

Give some safety you know gives some comfort because inside their tent I mentioned. I mean if you just think about it you're down in an area where there's crime right outside your tent. You can't use the bathroom you can't go out and do anything because you can be raped or you can be killed you could be robbed. You could have anything happen to you and it's a very dangerous hierarchal situation. There's a whole system that goes on down there that I'm just starting to get to the depths of that we are writing about that in our original scripted story but this one might program. It's so powerful to me because it's such a simple thing and people are like wow how did you think about that.

It was just a download from God that was started by Robert's play and empowered has been really incredible with us and they're giving us huge discounts and they're donating some lights and so I'm really excited to be able to share more about that. But New York will be the next city we go to. We're going to do other parts of Los Angeles but New York just superseded Los Angeles as the number one homeless city in the States. And it's crazy what's going on. You know there's so many touchy topics when you deal with homelessness. You know people don't want to have homeless shelters in their communities because they think their property value might decrease and that's not true.

There's so many beautiful rehabilitation centers that are popping up everywhere in Los Angeles and we're doing a lot of work with Union Rescue Mission in Hope Gardens which is a transitional homeless center for women and children. We'll be doing our first workshop this spring. And that's really about diving into these women's lives and figuring out how they can you know they're almost on the way out there. Almost right there. And we just want to share the light and encourage them to start a business or whatever they want to do. So it all ties into this when lights up campaign.

Amy and Nancy Harrington:You talk in the book about your own personal experiences with homelessness. What's something that's commonly misunderstood about the homeless community or questions that people aren't asking that should be addressed?

Tess Cacciatore: It's situational. And I think that's the one thing that a lot of people don't realize that it is tied to mental health. It is tied to the situations that might happen that we don't have control over in that sense because if you're in an abusive relationship most of the time it starts off very subtly. No one's going to come up to you with a big sign on them and say guess what. I'm an abusive guy or girl you're going to discover it through the fact that almost sometimes those of us that have been in domestic violence relationships we feel like we have to sign up that says I can be abused. Because it's the very quagmired situation.

But it does tie into the homeless situation especially when you're on the streets if you have kids and you have to run away from a dangerous relationship. They don't have anywhere to go. They have probably been sequestered from their families and friends because that's one of the things that you want to watch out for. If you're in a relationship that's abusive. I'm just going to take a little pen and go in this little road for a minute because I think it's really important for people to understand the signs if you are in a relationship if the person loves you they're going to want you to flourish and shine to your highest ability and they're going to encourage that. And then that gives them breathing room for you to do the same in that relationship it's that perfect circle of being. If they start to sequester you if they start to insult you they start to out of the blue start to control where you go how you dress what you do where you speak who you go with.

Those are signs and a lot of times we are people pleasers like I was. We want to please our partners and the ones we love. So it's like oh OK well then I won't talk to that person. Are you all dressed more conservatively or whatever if you're not able to be truly who you are then there's something wrong. And I really want to talk more about that more often in public because I think if people understood those signs to watch out for you might be able to save yourself from going too far deep in their emotionally abusive relationship emotionally and verbal is very hard to be able to decipher because they do it so carefully and so meticulously that they don't even know that they're doing it sometimes themselves because they might be a cycle of abuse victim too. So that's where I want Gwen to be is that we understand what the underlying attributes are of someone who's abusive is because there's a cycle there somewhere that needs to be broken.

So going back to the homeless situation I think the most misunderstood part of it all is that they are people that are there are situationally and they're not all drug addicts they're not all criminal they're not all anything because no one is on anything. No sector in life no example you can ever give that you can give a blanket situation to those variables in every situation. And I feel compassionate to the ones that are living on the streets because they might not be on the proper medication if they have a mental problem they might not have the right resources to know that they can go into a shelter because there are shelters here in every city. Some of the shelters might be full so that's another situation. 

How do we solve the problem? Oh, I don't know. I mean that's a loaded question. It's multilayered and there's so many things that we can do to help. That's all I want to do is just help in the smallest ways and see how we can change the trajectory of being homeless. Yes I was homeless. I moved about. I would say 15 times in about 17 months timeframe. I was never addicted to drugs. I wasn't on the streets I didn't live in a tent. I never had to sleep in my car. But I had a the stigma of not having a home which is really hard for me because I love being home. And I had a little bit of a blame and shame. No one in my life knew that I was not without a home. 

I went and house sat and I was a family chef and help for people that were moving from one place to another or selling their states and getting them ready for market. I did everything I could. And I was that close to seeing people that live on the street. I'm one step away and it didn't feel really safe but it gave me such a raw experience that I'll never forget because I was that close to that that I don't have any fear of going up and talking to someone on the street that's homeless because I feel like I have that believability to them and I know a fraction of where they're at. I'm curious of the human spirit of what created that place and that reality that you're here and how can we help and how can we bring a light. How can we share our stories. It's so many layers.

Amy and Nancy Harrington:One of the other current projects you mentioned earlier is the app. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that?

Tess Cacciatore: So that goes hand in hand I'm really excited about that with the launch of the tensity tour back in 2000 and 12 when Gwen first began. I met Brad's who taught who is the app developer and he had an app for lost pets and it had a GPS tracker on it. And we started talking and I said What about if we were to use that for being able to target someone who might be an emotionally abusive situation or a near physical attack or especially with girls on campus and for young college girls are sexually assaulted and those are the ones that actually report it.

There's so many people I say people because there's a lot of men that get sexually abused as well that we don't talk about because there is even more shame and blame in not life too. But one in four young women are sexually assaulted on campuses. So we focused it pretty much back then on the college campus life and the domestic violence world you load up five people into your phone much out of your contact list so it could be your five closest family and friend members you want to choose someone that actually has their phone nearby them you know if it's on that you love but they're not really technically savvy and they don't want to have their phone nearby we don't encourage that person to be here when five you want to pick somebody that really has their phone with them at all times. And it's a silent alert. You push a button and it notifies the five people where you are in GPS latitude and longitude if you're in another country and guess if you're near Google Maps satellite. What was important back then for this whole program was to be able to have that safety app.

We built it really well Brad's team built it beautifully so it lasted on Google Play On iTunes For about three years and then when it started to kind of falter because their technology was taking off we pulled it off for safety purposes and I've been wanting to get a new version out there for three years now so we're finally in the process it's in production right now and by the time this airs it should be out by the end of March. And it has new features like voice activation and video component and Nine one by one. I'm really passionate about. I'm so excited Brad and I have been talking about it for three years.

So it's coming back out. So let me go on this ten city tour my goal is to be able to go into the community give the lights out go on local news talk about the lights talk about the homeless issue go to the universities have some workshops. You know do whatever we can within that community we're going to be giving out some awards to the local communities to shine a spotlight on them doing amazing work and to download it it's free. So we're really excited about that. I'm thrilled that it's back out. Version 2.

Amy and Nancy Harrington:What's your definition of success?

Tess Cacciatore: That can come in a lot of forms. I think just knowing that you're on your life purpose and your life plan and that you're doing what you're brought to the world to do that to me is success. I don't think it's anything about material goods because I know plenty of people that have millions and millions of dollars in the bank and they still say oh my god I'm so broken oh my god I don't have enough. It's so to me it's not the monetary thing at all. Even though I think that the money side does help them as I said I'm opening up myself to magnify the receiving end of that. But it's really about feeling good in your body and having the self-love and feeling like you're here you're doing what you're supposed to be doing and you keep on going.

Amy and Nancy Harrington: Thanks for listening to the passion project podcast and our interview with Tess Cacciatore. Visit her website Gwen.global. To learn more about the Global Women's Empowerment Network and go to pop culture Passionistas dot com. To seek one solar powered lanterns and donate to the program every ten dollars raised gives the gift of light to those in need and be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast. So you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.